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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Diamond Lights said:
we need to focus on what's next. A lot of sidetracked issues. we need a progressive manager who can develop youth, improve players, and whether people like it or not Poch is probably the best candidate.

doubt it will happen.
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I'm hoping Conte realises that apart from a crumbling Juve we might be the last best gig in a top league he can get (due to not many having the money of old) so he may as well start upping his coaching...

I think if Conte goes it should prove that Poch SHOULDN'T come back. We'll need a clean slate and not for Poch to sully his old memories with us (i don't think ENIC will change much, hence Poch is even in the discussion in the first place).
 
billyiddo said:
Look you either understsnd/accept the club is run in a sustainable fashion or you don't - the stadium move restricted what we could spend and therefore the players that could be signed/targeted - that is no longer an issue, which is the point being made above, we have the money to sustain and push on once we have rebuilt the team, this will be new ground for us/ ENIC so they need to be judged on what they do in those circumstances then, not before.
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They're already on their 4th manager since the new ground was opened (I'm not counting Mason's little stint in charge).
 
Diamond Lights said:
we need to focus on what's next. A lot of sidetracked issues. we need a progressive manager who can develop youth, improve players, and whether people like it or not Poch is probably the best candidate.

doubt it will happen.
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And do you imagine the fan response? including on this board?

Lets say we let Conte go tomorrow, we hire the promising manager (the one in Argentina's league that's been tearing it up) and he brings two £30M players from that league

It will be complete meltdown from Spurs fans, how do we go from Jose/Conte to this "nobody"? who the fudge are these players he's bringing in? (usual flimflam, he's only hiring players from the league he knows, as if every manager doesn't do that) and the media will be all over themselves to prove he's on a Fasttrack to failure.
 
Raziel said:
And do you imagine the fan response? including on this board?

Lets say we let Conte go tomorrow, we hire the promising manager (the one in Argentina's league that's been tearing it up) and he brings two £30M players from that league

It will be complete meltdown from Spurs fans, how do we go from Jose/Conte to this "nobody"? who the fudge are these players he's bringing in? (usual flimflam, he's only hiring players from the league he knows, as if every manager doesn't do that) and the media will be all over themselves to prove he's on a Fasttrack to failure.
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We need someone to over achieve or it will not work.
 
glorygloryeze said:
We did have money though. The bids for De Jong and De Ligt plus the Grealish nonsense shows that money was there. I think the goodwill between Poch and Levy did start straining though (hence perhaps Poch's inflexibility regarding targets that summer) and that is understandable given the past targets missed and the compromises made (e.g. Nkoudou instead of Mane etc).

My point is ENIC are a common factor going back years and i feel it's their football decision-making (or often lack of right timing plus the apparent neglect of our youth scouting network as claimed by @Finney Is Back) is the main factor why we've gone more than a decade without a trophy, though with some good memories in CL etc.

When people talk about lack of winning mentality/fibre/ethos whatever at Spurs, i think it starts with ENIC
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So presumably you think it was just a coincidence that we didn't spend while the stadium was being built?
 
Raziel said:
And do you imagine the fan response? including on this board?

Lets say we let Conte go tomorrow, we hire the promising manager (the one in Argentina's league that's been tearing it up) and he brings two £30M players from that league

It will be complete meltdown from Spurs fans, how do we go from Jose/Conte to this "nobody"? who the fudge are these players he's bringing in? (usual flimflam, he's only hiring players from the league he knows, as if every manager doesn't do that) and the media will be all over themselves to prove he's on a Fasttrack to failure.
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What the fans think doesn't matter and never has. If Marcelo Gallardo comes across and brings two quality players and they importantly play well and help the team the fans will quickly realise how happy they are.

Kulu and Bentancur had no profile amongst the majority of Tottenham fans yet a year later and the vast majority would now have them as first names on the team sheet.

So these weak arguments about how the fans will feel or think are largely irrelevant.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
 
Gazza said:
We need someone to over achieve or it will not work.
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Define work

- Could you find a younger/progressive manager that could make better use of this squad, give them what seems to be our current budget model and expect more attractive football, regular top 6 with the occasional top 4 and an outside chance at a trophy? sure
- Can anyone consistently put us ahead of City, Chelsea, United and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, even with an extra £100M/£200M, I think the answer is no.

If you want the 2nd, you need to join the cheaters ..
 
Bishop said:
What the fans think doesn't matter and never has. If Marcelo Gallardo comes across and brings two quality players and they importantly play well and help the team the fans will quickly realise how happy they are.

Kulu and Bentancur had no profile amongst the majority of Tottenham fans yet a year later and the vast majority would now have them as first names on the team sheet.

So these weak arguments about how the fans will feel or think are largely irrelevant.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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Should not matter, but it does in some ways.

My point is more specific to the terms of this conversation, everyone knows better, everyone is happy to detail how "obviously" wrong ENIC got it and how we should go the progressive route but that response is just as predictable if we did.
 
Raziel said:
Define work

- Could you find a younger/progressive manager that could make better use of this squad, give them what seems to be our current budget model and expect more attractive football, regular top 6 with the occasional top 4 and an outside chance at a trophy? sure
- Can anyone consistently put us ahead of City, Chelsea, United and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, even with an extra £100M/£200M, I think the answer is no.

If you want the 2nd, you need to join the cheaters ..
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You can’t beat city or Saudi Sportswashing Machine going forward without being doped
It’s going to be impossible
You have to have owner investment which we will not get from ENIC or a consortium either
It’s got to be a cash rich owner and that means UAE or simialr
 
billyiddo said:
So presumably you think it was just a coincidence that we didn't spend while the stadium was being built?
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No, i'm looking at us before and since and see that there is one common denominator over 20 years or nearly getting somewhere and not quite doing it.
Limiting that judgement to just an 18 month period loses the bigger picture imo.

If Conte leaves and we go back to a Poch type solely to develop potential then that will say everything
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You can’t beat city or Saudi Sportswashing Machine going forward without being doped
It’s going to be impossible
You have to have owner investment which we will not get from ENIC or a consortium either
It’s got to be a cash rich owner and that means UAE or simialr
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This is the answer we keep circling back to, even if we completely write off this season

- City will be back next year, even if Pep goes, they are simply too well run (Locked in top 4)
- Saudi Sportswashing Machine will splash this summer, the project is ahead of schedule (very likely top 4)
- Chelsea will spend another £400M in summer, they will eventually get some of it right (very likely top 4)
- United unfortunately I think are back, finally a decent/modern manager and their recent buys make sense, get a top class striker in summer and they are set (locked top 4)

Hilariously I think that leaves us, Pool and Arsenal (despite the tossfest and whatever they achieve this season), sitting outside and looking in.
 
Raziel said:
This is the answer we keep circling back to, even if we completely write off this season

- City will be back next year, even if Pep goes, they are simply too well run (Locked in top 4)
- Saudi Sportswashing Machine will splash this summer, the project is ahead of schedule (very likely top 4)
- Chelsea will spend another £400M in summer, they will eventually get some of it right (very likely top 4)
- United unfortunately I think are back, finally a decent/modern manager and their recent buys make sense, get a top class striker in summer and they are set (locked top 4)

Hilariously I think that leaves us, Pool and Arsenal (despite the tossfest and whatever they achieve this season), sitting outside and looking in.
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Your bolded comment is interesting I think.... So Emirates Marketing Project could lose a great manager and yet still be fine because they are so well run. Surely we could also be so well run that we don't lurch from one type of manager to the next or end up in a position where we have no credible scouting network or recruitment team?
 
Arteta was (unfairly) a laughing stock for many, and Arsenal "stupid" for sticking with him. Given time to build a team, plug holes in key roles, all of a sudden him and Arsenal are the blueprint. Conte was the genius, beat Arsenal to 4th. The much better manager only in need of backing.

Half a season later and Conte is outdated, inflexible, tactically outmatched whatever.

Unfortunately this Arsenal team are a very good team. There's no one tactic to stop them from playing well, particularly when they get an early goal. There's certainly no tactic to do that with several players badly underperforming like we have.

Conte needs time, like Arteta needed time. Like Arteta he needs a team and a squad where all the pieces fit together cohesively enough. We've taken steps in that direction, but at the same time Lloris and Son have metaphorically speaking fallen off a cliff and in some roles we're very short on options. We need to take further steps.

That can happen with or without Conte. That can happen with this or a different system. There is no one right way to play football.

Had Arsenal listened to the fans that wanted Arteta gone at several times in the previous seasons I think they would have been very unlikely to be where they currently are.
 
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