Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Diamond Lights]

And do you imagine the fan response? including on this board?

Lets say we let Conte go tomorrow, we hire the promising manager (the one in Argentina's league that's been tearing it up) and he brings two £30M players from that league

It will be complete meltdown from Spurs fans, how do we go from Jose/Conte to this "nobody"? who the fudge are these players he's bringing in? (usual flimflam, he's only hiring players from the league he knows, as if every manager doesn't do that) and the media will be all over themselves to prove he's on a Fasttrack to failure.

don't disagree, the twitter echo chamber will be mad too. But ultimately is Conte the right option, that's the question?

Recent form says no. A NLD against top of the table, biggest rivals. We fail. We look awful. We play into their hands with awful structure. And then you look at recent results, as i said, one first half goal in the last 14 games. Is that really the level we are at? Surely this team is capable of more, and if so, that's on the manager.

 

[Grays_1890]

Alot of these comments come from a plave of expectations to compete for the league, something we have won twice in our history. Also this idea that, oh we just change the owner and bang success is based on a best case scenario and an owner that will invest where as you could get a set of Glaziers. No guarantee that when Enic do leave that the new owners will be any better or these huge on the pitch investors people hope for, people talk like we have a choice in that matter

 

[braineclipse]

don't disagree, the twitter echo chamber will be mad too. But ultimately is Conte the right option, that's the question?

Recent form says no. A NLD against top of the table, biggest rivals. We fail. We look awful. We play into their hands with awful structure. And then you look at recent results, as i said, one first half goal in the last 14 games. Is that really the level we are at? Surely this team is capable of more, and if so, that's on the manager.

We're better than our current poor run. However that run has mostly been without several key players (Kulusevski, Romero, Bentancur) at various times. It's been with Son completely off form and his natural replacement (Richarlison) out injured. It's been with Lloris showing his decline almost week by week.

A chain is no stronger than the strongest link. A football team can be stronger than the weakest link, but only by so much. We have weak links that we cannot compensate for and I don't think that's mainly on Conte.

I think Conte can be the right man. If he wants to be. And if we get him 2-3 good reinforcements this January. That's been my answer for months now. I still think that's true. But my opinion of where those reinforcements are most needed has changed somewhat.

 

[billyiddo]

No, i'm looking at us before and since and see that there is one common denominator over 20 years or nearly getting somewhere and not quite doing it.
Limiting that judgement to just an 18 month period loses the bigger picture imo.

If Conte leaves and we go back to a Poch type solely to develop potential then that will say everything

The club has been competing at differing levels over those 20 years though, prior to the stadium build there was a fairly clear line of progression on the pitch, mid table > Europa > Top 4 > Title Challenge > CL Challenge, at each point we took the next step, but yes we haven't taken the final step but the you can't really paint it as though it has been 20 years without any progression or that we have soent that time trying and failing to take that final step. The stadium build has set us back a bit but it has also given us a better financial platform to take those final steps once we get ourselves in to that position again.

 

[Mikey10]

We're better than our current poor run. However that run has mostly been without several key players (Kulusevski, Romero, Bentancur) at various times. It's been with Son completely off form and his natural replacement (Richarlison) out injured. It's been with Lloris showing his decline almost week by week.

A chain is no stronger than the strongest link. A football team can be stronger than the weakest link, but only by so much. We have weak links that we cannot compensate for and I don't think that's mainly on Conte.

I think Conte can be the right man. If he wants to be. And if we get him 2-3 good reinforcements this January. That's been my answer for months now. I still think that's true. But my opinion of where those reinforcements are most needed has changed somewhat.

Exactly my position.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The club has been competing at differing levels over those 20 years though, prior to the stadium build there was a fairly clear line of progression on the pitch, mid table > Europa > Top 4 > Title Challenge > CL Challenge, at each point we took the next step, but yes we haven't taken the final step but the you can't really paint it as though it has been 20 years without any progression or that we have soent that time trying and failing to take that final step. The stadium build has set us back a bit but it has also given us a better financial platform to take those final steps once we get ourselves in to that position again.

It' about taking those final steps not the progression (which has happened without doubt but not really my point here).
Across all those years are always points to take a chance and push on but we step back, play it safe etc.

A case in point is now with Conte: if we don't back him and instead let him go and re-employ Poch (lots of rumours that Levy and Poch have been in regular contact) that for em will be yet another case of them retreating from taking that 'last step'. What was the point in building the stadium if we are going to do this kind of thing every time it looks like we have to really put up more spending to really push on?

 

[Raziel]

Your bolded comment is interesting I think.... So Emirates Marketing Project could lose a great manager and yet still be fine because they are so well run. Surely we could also be so well run that we don't lurch from one type of manager to the next or end up in a position where we have no credible scouting network or recruitment team?

Come on mate

- They have the best squad in the league (that they spent over £1.2B to get)
- They just paid £150M+ for a player they wanted
- The are easily capable of spending £200M - £400M to back a new manager in and hide it from FFP with their "sponsorships"

They are simply in a different league financially, how I think they are "better" run is they are patient, and have an acquisition model that seems aligned to manager needs. The comparison for them is Chelsea, who is a cluster fudge and is certainly less efficient (poorly run)

Could we better? always, but if you think a better scouting network or giving Poch another 6 months would have made any difference whatsoever against the likes of City, we will have to respectfully disagree.

All these conversations end in the same place

- to really compete, we need to have money that ENIC can't/doesn't provide
- the difference is I don't need to blame ENIC or come up with some hindsight guess (if/then/what) that believes buying x player or keeping y manager would have changed history.

 

[Raziel]

I think Conte can be the right man. If he wants to be. And if we get him 2-3 good reinforcements this January. That's been my answer for months now. I still think that's true. But my opinion of where those reinforcements are most needed has changed somewhat.

But is he ever the guy that commits to any club? and if he isn't how can the club go in 100%?

 

[billyiddo]

It' about taking those final steps not the progression (which has happened without doubt but not really my point here).
Across all those years are always points to take a chance and push on but we step back, play it safe etc.

A case in point is now with Conte: if we don't back him and instead let him go and re-employ Poch (lots of rumours that Levy and Poch have been in regular contact) that for em will be yet another case of them retreating from taking that 'last step'. What was the point in building the stadium if we are going to do this kind of thing every time it looks like we have to really put up more spending to really push on?

But you have to understand that you need to get to that point before you can make the final step - you don't skip the part in the middle unless you've the backing of a superstate. Of the 20 year time frame you refer to we have only been at the point to do that once Poch was here and at that point we had the stadium build to contend with.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But you have to understand that you need to get to that point before you can make the final step - you don't skip the part in the middle unless you've the backing of a superstate. Of the 20 year time frame you refer to we have only been at the point to do that once Poch was here and at that point we had the stadium build to contend with.

When i say final step, i'm talking about winning a trophy not just the league. In fact, i could broaden the term to also mean solidifying your position rather than resting on your laurels.
Resting on laurels/playing it safe is what our board seem to do better than anything.

Think of it of what Poch meant when he said "Act like a big club"

 

[billyiddo]

When i say final step, i'm talking about winning a trophy not just the league. In fact, i could broaden the term to also mean solidifying your position rather than resting on your laurels.
Resting on laurels/playing it safe is what our board seem to do better than anything.

Think of it of what Poch meant when he said "Act like a big club"

Yeah but that comes hand in hand with having the money to build squads that can sustain their position in around the top places - up until now we haven't had that.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yeah but that comes hand in hand with having the money to build squads that can sustain their position in around the top places - up until now we haven't had that.

We will see. If we don't back Conte and re-hire Poch, we'll know what the thinking will be...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ahhhh I see.... You mean the fans wanted the board out... Sorry I thought you meant that the board wanted Arteta out.

My fault
Yes
The fans were more disgruntled than we are now TBF
I also know arsenal had reps that met with Poch when he was out to work before PSG about him taking over. It was a club in London that we look after for work
They were looking, like a sensible club, at other options as Arteta was failing
But they couldn’t get anyone aligned to taking over. Actually spent some money too and built on thag

 

[parklane1]

We're better than our current poor run. However that run has mostly been without several key players (Kulusevski, Romero, Bentancur) at various times. It's been with Son completely off form and his natural replacement (Richarlison) out injured. It's been with Lloris showing his decline almost week by week.

A chain is no stronger than the strongest link. A football team can be stronger than the weakest link, but only by so much. We have weak links that we cannot compensate for and I don't think that's mainly on Conte.

I think Conte can be the right man. If he wants to be. And if we get him 2-3 good reinforcements this January. That's been my answer for months now. I still think that's true. But my opinion of where those reinforcements are most needed has changed somewhat.

Good summimg up and i do agree.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It would be knee-jerk to sack him now. I think he’ll leave in the summer anyway and let’s see what direction we want to go in then and who’s available. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of winning the FA cup with what we have now.

But

1) A handbrake off manager could give us a real lift now. We're playing well below the sum of our parts and have all season. Imagine playing to our potential, even just with our current squad

2) The likelihood is we proceed and sign a RWB and a CB for a trio, neither of whom can play when we revert to a back 4 in July. See Royal.

3) Poch and Tuchel are currently both available (and compensation free). Two of the top 10 coaches in the world. Leave it till June and we could end up with a Nuno situation again.

 

[Grays_1890]

When i say final step, i'm talking about winning a trophy not just the league. In fact, i could broaden the term to also mean solidifying your position rather than resting on your laurels.
Resting on laurels/playing it safe is what our board seem to do better than anything.

Think of it of what Poch meant when he said "Act like a big club"

It does help if your world class manager decides not to die on his 3-4-3 hill and go against the league leaders with and playing Sess ahead of a player your presumably got in to play the big games at his age. A four of Sess, Sarr, PEH and Doherty and he expected that to compete with Arsenal? I mean come off it.

There has to be more to a world class manager than his CV and sticking to a rigid system regardless , has to be

 

[Gazza]

That'll be true for any manager working at a club that is not United or one of the doped ones, no?

Not really we talk a big game without actually delivering from the top

 

[Raziel]

But

1) A handbrake off manager could give us a real lift now. We're playing well below the sum of our parts and have all season. Imagine playing to our potential, even just with our current squad

2) The likelihood is we proceed and sign a RWB and a CB for a trio, neither of whom can play when we revert to a back 4 in July. See Royal.

3) Poch and Tuchel are currently both available (and compensation free). Two of the top 10 coaches in the world. Leave it till June and we could end up with a Nuno situation again.

Which is probably the conversation right now at the club.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Come on mate

- They have the best squad in the league (that they spent over £1.2B to get)
- They just paid £150M+ for a player they wanted
- The are easily capable of spending £200M - £400M to back a new manager in and hide it from FFP with their "sponsorships"

They are simply in a different league financially, how I think they are "better" run is they are patient, and have an acquisition model that seems aligned to manager needs. The comparison for them is Chelsea, who is a cluster fudge and is certainly less efficient (poorly run)

Could we better? always, but if you think a better scouting network or giving Poch another 6 months would have made any difference whatsoever against the likes of City, we will have to respectfully disagree.

All these conversations end in the same place

- to really compete, we need to have money that ENIC can't/doesn't provide
- the difference is I don't need to blame ENIC or come up with some hindsight guess (if/then/what) that believes buying x player or keeping y manager would have changed history.

Sorry, I was merely commenting on your 'because they are so well run' comment.

With the forthcoming FFP regulations I'm not sure it actually will be particularly easy for a club like Emirates Marketing Project (or anyone) to hide £200 - £400m spending on players from FFP.

And, yes, I think having a better academy, scouting network and recruiting team would absolutely make a difference. I also think sticking with Pochettino and backing him would've been WAY better than our lurch to Mourinho, Nuno and Conte.

 

[billyiddo]

Not really we talk a big game without actually delivering from the top

I was commenting on whether a manager has to overachieve in order to deliver success?