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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Grays_1890 said:
It does help if your world class manager decides not to die on his 3-4-3 hill and go against the league leaders with and playing Sess ahead of a player your presumably got in to play the big games at his age. A four of Sess, Sarr, PEH and Doherty and he expected that to compete with Arsenal? I mean come off it.

There has to be more to a world class manager than his CV and sticking to a rigid system regardless , has to be
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I'm not leaving Conte without any blame on this. However, he isn't doing anything different to what he has at previous clubs: look to spend relatively big money on certain 'ready to go' players and yes without that he seems to not have a plan B.

But we all knew this, so why get him in if you aren't going to furnish him with said signings?
 
billyiddo said:
I was commenting on whether a manager has to overachieve in order to deliver success?
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Surely that goes hand in hand with the board backing the manager they put in. Unless they expect him to work miracles with players that are not what the mangers want. We leave it late in the window which doesn't allow players to be integrated immediately almost writing off a few crucial months off in the league.

It's not like we have a strong settled team to cater for these transfer tactics. Rather have focus on picking up the manager asks for. It seems that the manager is always up against it rather than having the full backing.

No one can tell me that Conte would not have already signed an extension if he was backed with what he needs. Instead we have a manager who looks like he is just bidding his time. This I'm sure you agree with is reflective from the board up. If it was a one off then I'd agree with you, but it's the same old story.

Like you say we have now lots in place to back the manager but yet we still are not really backing the manager for the success he wants. If Levy wanted a project manager and was willing to buy three top players a window then yeah it's all good, but he got Conte on who knows EXACTLY what is needed to win titles.
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'm not leaving Conte without any blame on this. However, he isn't doing anything different to what he has at previous clubs: look to spend relatively big money on certain 'ready to go' players and yes without that he seems to not have a plan B.

But we all knew this, so why get him in if you aren't going to furnish him with said signings?
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Im sorry but that can't be the only retort to defend a manager who is on 15m a year. We have lost 4/5 of last home games, gone behind in the last 10 games or so, the first halves we all know are an issue, his selections are strange and he refuses to change anything ever, that can't be excused by saying he can only manage one way and with huge investment, if anything that sounds like a reason to bin him even more

If we get better personnel we would still get over run in midfield unless that personnel can miraculously morph into an extra body, which has been one of if not our main issues this year, getting overun in the centre. Thats not quality, thats not adapting to your opponents, thats doubling down on your own system that clearly is not working IMHO

And for all Conte greatness this is not the first time he has had this issue, Chelsea in his first season the players took him to one side and said he needed to change his approach and they were right
 
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Gazza said:
Surely that goes hand in hand with the board backing the manager they put in. Unless they expect him to work miracles with players that are not what the mangers want. We leave it late in the window which doesn't allow players to be integrated immediately almost writing off a few crucial months off in the league.

It's not like we have a strong settled team to cater for these transfer tactics. Rather have focus on picking up the manager asks for. It seems that the manager is always up against it rather than having the full backing.

No one can tell me that Conte would not have already signed an extension if he was backed with what he needs. Instead we have a manager who looks like he is just bidding his time. This I'm sure you agree with is reflective from the board up. If it was a one off then I'd agree with you, but it's the same old story.

Like you say we have now lots in place to back the manager but yet we still are not really backing the manager for the success he wants. If Levy wanted a project manager and was willing to buy three top players a window then yeah it's all good, but he got Conte on who knows EXACTLY what is needed to win titles.
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We've spent 150-160m net over the last 2 windows - the rebuild is still ongoing, the manager seems to be aware of that given his comments regarding timescale to get the team where it needs to be - what more do you want at this stage? It isn't an immediate fix.

We do the same or similar over the next two windows while shipping out the deadwood then Conte goes in to next season with the extension activated and a squad much more suited to his needs - it's then down to how next season pans out wrt new contracts being signed.
 
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Gazza said:
Surely that goes hand in hand with the board backing the manager they put in. Unless they expect him to work miracles with players that are not what the mangers want. We leave it late in the window which doesn't allow players to be integrated immediately almost writing off a few crucial months off in the league.

It's not like we have a strong settled team to cater for these transfer tactics. Rather have focus on picking up the manager asks for. It seems that the manager is always up against it rather than having the full backing.

No one can tell me that Conte would not have already signed an extension if he was backed with what he needs. Instead we have a manager who looks like he is just bidding his time. This I'm sure you agree with is reflective from the board up. If it was a one off then I'd agree with you, but it's the same old story.

Like you say we have now lots in place to back the manager but yet we still are not really backing the manager for the success he wants. If Levy wanted a project manager and was willing to buy three top players a window then yeah it's all good, but he got Conte on who knows EXACTLY what is needed to win titles.
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I’d say 11 players in over 2 windows is a lot of transformation
We brought early in the summer
In January it’s a finite period with more variables such as ascertaining if the selling club will sell when they don’t have too
I think clubs wait until later in January as they want to move when it’s harder to be gazumped or have other variables kick in
We offer Porros release clause after Chelsea have brought their players we have no competition . We do do it early they can offer more like they did arsenal
Arsenal knew what they needed to do to get their sole target and didn’t get him. Is that letting arteta down?
you keep on referring to things that was true a few years back, but it’s not a refection on the current way we have been doing things
 
billyiddo said:
We've spent 150-160m net in the last 2 windows - the rebuild is still ongoing, the manager seems to be awate of that given his comments regarding timescale to get the team where it needs to be - what more do you want at this stage? It isn't an immediate fix.

We do the same or similar over the next two windows while shipping out the deadwood then Conte goes in to next season with the extension activated and a squad much more suited to his needs - it's then down to how next season pans out wrt new contracts being signed.
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It looks to me that for us to be really properly successful with Conte's tactics then for next season we need all of:
A new, number 1 keeper,
A bona-fide top class right wing back
A bona-fide top class left wing back
A bona-fide top class middle centre back
A bona-fide top class left centre back
Cover at right wing forward
(perhaps) cover at left wing forward (depending on whether Son's demise is just temporary form or an age related loss of pace decline).
A new bumper contract for Harry Kane or, if not, a genuinely top class striker to replace him.

That is a lot of round holes to find non square pegs for!
 
Finney Is Back said:
It looks to me that for us to be really properly successful with Conte's tactics then for next season we need all of:
A new, number 1 keeper,
A bona-fide top class right wing back
A bona-fide top class left wing back
A bona-fide top class middle centre back
A bona-fide top class left centre back
Cover at right wing forward
(perhaps) cover at left wing forward (depending on whether Son's demise is just temporary form or an age related loss of pace decline).
A new bumper contract for Harry Kane or, if not, a genuinely top class striker to replace him.

That is a lot of round holes to find non square pegs for!
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We may well have the left wing back in Udogie
One of the two centre backs being top draw can make a big difference. I think that’s the target in the summer.
The keeper is HUGE a as he is costing us a goal every 4.5 games and they are big, big goals
We may well target the summer do a pool and go big on that centre back and keeper
We may well have wing back here but he ain’t playing him. I do think we will get Porro
Left wing forward cover looks like being Trossard, again one I think we will get done this window
Kane is gone IMO but I hope I’m wrong
Worryingly writing it like this I’m optimistic….
 
Finney Is Back said:
It looks to me that for us to be really properly successful with Conte's tactics then for next season we need all of:
A new, number 1 keeper,
A bona-fide top class right wing back
A bona-fide top class left wing back
A bona-fide top class middle centre back
A bona-fide top class left centre back
Cover at right wing forward
(perhaps) cover at left wing forward (depending on whether Son's demise is just temporary form or an age related loss of pace decline).
A new bumper contract for Harry Kane or, if not, a genuinely top class striker to replace him.

That is a lot of round holes to find non square pegs for!
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Can you define how you are using properly successful there?

I think that we aren't going to be at final-step phase of things next season if that is what you mean, but in a position that say Arsenal were in last season where they were a team that is starting to gel with the managers approach and the bulk of the components are in place from his pov and from our pov that there are good signs that we are moving in the right direction - we then go in to the following season with Conte having what he needs in place to challenge
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We may well have the left wing back in Udogie
One of the two centre backs being top draw can make a big difference. I think that’s the target in the summer.
The keeper is HUGE a as he is costing us a goal every 4.5 games and they are big, big goals
We may well target the summer do a pool and go big on that centre back and keeper
We may well have wing back here but he ain’t playing him. I do think we will get Porro
Left wing forward cover looks like being Trossard, again one I think we will get done this window
Kane is gone IMO but I hope I’m wrong
Worryingly writing it like this I’m optimistic….
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Expecting a 20 year old kid to come in and be an immediate top class LWB is likely to lead to a lot of disappointment I fear mate. I'd be surprised if Conte even played him particularly often at that age and experience level.
If we only sign one centre back in the summer and continue to play with 3 CBs then I think we'll just have the same problems we have now (in fact even worse problems seeing as Lenglet is only here on loan).
I'd be disappointed if Trossard was our choice to provide cover at left wing. He is the typical sort of 'back-up' signing that we've made too many times instead of trying to find a player who we'd expect to put up a proper challenge for a starting position.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Im sorry but that can't be the only retort to defend a manager who is on 15m a year. We have lost 4/5 of last home games, gone behind in the last 10 games or so, the first halves we all know are an issue, his selections are strange and he refuses to change anything ever, that can't be excused by saying he can only manage one way and with huge investment, if anything that sounds like a reason to bin him even more

If we get better personnel we would still get over run in midfield unless that personnel can miraculously morph into an extra body, which has been one of if not our main issues this year, getting overun in the centre. Thats not quality, thats not adapting to your opponents, thats doubling down on your own system that clearly is not working IMHO

And for all Conte greatness this is not the first time he has had this issue, Chelsea in his first season the players took him to one side and said he needed to change his approach and they were right
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Chelsea’s players have never been shy in rebelling against a manager and/or running to Abramovich if they weren’t happy. I don’t think our spineless lot would have the stomach for that. But we live in hope. Could be a line in the sand moment like it was for Liverpool when we hammered them at Wembley in the league.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But

1) A handbrake off manager could give us a real lift now. We're playing well below the sum of our parts and have all season. Imagine playing to our potential, even just with our current squad

2) The likelihood is we proceed and sign a RWB and a CB for a trio, neither of whom can play when we revert to a back 4 in July. See Royal.

3) Poch and Tuchel are currently both available (and compensation free). Two of the top 10 coaches in the world. Leave it till June and we could end up with a Nuno situation again.
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I was going to say we’d get a reputation as a basket-case club if we sacked Conte when only 5 points off 3rd and in the last 16 of the champions league. But maybe that ship has sailed!
Fwiw it’s Conte’s demeanour that makes me think he could be gone very soon.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Expecting a 20 year old kid to come in and be an immediate top class LWB is likely to lead to a lot of disappointment I fear mate. I'd be surprised if Conte even played him particularly often at that age and experience level.
If we only sign one centre back in the summer and continue to play with 3 CBs then I think we'll just have the same problems we have now (in fact even worse problems seeing as Lenglet is only here on loan).
I'd be disappointed if Trossard was our choice to provide cover at left wing. He is the typical sort of 'back-up' signing that we've made too many times instead of trying to find a player who we'd expect to put up a proper challenge for a starting position.
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Did you see arsenals bench yesterday ?
Back ups… when you’re playing well just need to hit the ground running when required.
Trossard is IMO a smart signing and a better player than most of our fans think. He has a lot of ability to move with the ball which we miss right now
I agree about Udogie however I have seen enough of him (not much) to have a high expectation if, if given a chance
Sarr is already showing me that youth can deliver if given opportunities
 
Mcfee said:
I was going to say we’d get a reputation as a basket-case club if we sacked Conte when only 5 points off 3rd and in the last 16 of the champions league. But maybe that ship has sailed!
Fwiw it’s Conte’s demeanour that makes me think he could be gone very soon.
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I think Conte knows he's underperforming, he has to, and he's making sure he gets to blame Spurs for it ..
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Did you see arsenals bench yesterday ?
Back ups… when you’re playing well just need to hit the ground running when required.
Trossard is IMO a smart signing and a better player than most of our fans think. He has a lot of ability to move with the ball which we miss right now
I agree about Udogie however I have seen enough of him (not much) to have a high expectation if, if given a chance
Sarr is already showing me that youth can deliver if given opportunities
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I think Sarr has potential but I'm not sure he is necessarily 'delivering'. Yesterday, for example he played a massive part in us conceding the second goal. An experienced player is unlikely to make that same mistake he did there with his positioning.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think Sarr has potential but I'm not sure he is necessarily 'delivering'. Yesterday, for example he played a massive part in us conceding the second goal. An experienced player is unlikely to make that same mistake he did there with his positioning.
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He was everywhere
I’d argue with a bit more leadership he would have been better but we have no leaders in the team
He can’t make up experience without playing
Maybe he doesn’t understand the Viking pointing method yet

arsenals midfield cover is woefully weak
As I say, I saw their bench and can understand why their subs now are always full backs
 
We bought early for once but only the free transfer of Perisic was for the first 11, the others were squad fillers with the possible exception of Bissouma.
If Conte is to stay then we need to get in 1 or 2 first team players every window to become serious challengers for trophies. Conte also needs to commit to a new contract. Otherwise it will be another waste of time and importantly for the fans, another missed opportunity for success.
 
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