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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

glorygloryeze said:
I should have made it clearer: i was talking about Arsenal's buys: did anyone look at them over the last few windows and say "wow, they are really going for a title tilt aren't they"?
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Ok, I'm not sure what point you're making there then as Arsenal are 3 or 4 years in to a project that is only starting to bare results, their situation at the outset of that was actually pretty similar to ours - bloated squad of poor/old players and no identity, they spent a lot of windows moving players on and bringing in new players, whilst underperforming in the league. Then once the squad balance tipped in to Artetas favour they started to look a team and then last summer bought in some genuine quality and things kicked up a gear or two.

We need to go through the same process Arsenal did but them being further down that path than us shows us that with time and patience what can be achieved, rather than giving ENIC nowhere to hide...
 
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Finney Is Back said:
This is so absolutely spot on. I have been saying it for some time. Teams know we always play with 3 CBs so are finding easy ways of being able to outnumber us everywhere else on the pitch. Play two wide forwards and keep them wide and we're immediately blunted in our attack with our wingbacks having to stay deep and then 2 against 3 in the middle. Drop your lone centre forward deeper and we're then 2 against 4. We're committing tactical suicide every game and yet an element of our fans still think its because our outnumbered two midfielders aren't good enough.
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exactly. People shouting "back him with signings" (and let me be clear i'm usually that person with regards to ENIC) fail to grasp that the system is failing, and it's been picked apart by teams consistently.

No one plays that way in the top 8 teams of the PL.
 
Finney Is Back said:
This is so absolutely spot on. I have been saying it for some time. Teams know we always play with 3 CBs so are finding easy ways of being able to outnumber us everywhere else on the pitch. Play two wide forwards and keep them wide and we're immediately blunted in our attack with our wingbacks having to stay deep and then 2 against 3 in the middle. Drop your lone centre forward deeper and we're then 2 against 4. We're committing tactical suicide every game and yet an element of our fans still think its because our outnumbered two midfielders aren't good enough.
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Completely. Either Conte hasn't spotted it, in which case he should be on £15k not £15m p.a., or he's too stubborn to change, in which case he's not fit for the role
 
billyiddo said:
Ok, I'm not sure what point you're making there then as Arsenal are 3 or 4 years in to a project that is only starting to bare results, their situation at the outset of that was actually pretty similar to ours - bloated squad of poor/old players and no identity, they spent a lot of windows moving players on and bringing in new players, whilst underperforming in the league. Then once the squad balance tipped in to Artetas favour they started to look a team and then last summer bought in some genuine quality and things kicked up a gear or two.

We need to go through the same process Arsenal did but them being further down that path than us shows us that with time and patience what can be achieved, rather than giving ENIC nowhere to hide...
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But we have been through this process before with Poch and still didn't get over the line then (in terms of winning a trophy) and haven't done most years under ENIC when we've had chances. Arsenal aren't doing anything different to us really yet look like not only getting a trophy but actually winning a PL title...hence my point that the excuses for not winning trophies under ENIC (whatever those trophies are) wash away if Arsenal win another trophy and that trophy is the PL especially given the competition.
 
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glorygloryeze said:
But we have been through this process before with Poch and still didn't get over the line then (in terms of winning a trophy) and haven't done most years under ENIC when we've had chances. Arsenal aren't doing anything different to us really yet look like not only getting a trophy but actually winning a PL title...hence my point that the excuses for not winning trophies under ENIC (whatever those trophies are) wash away if Arsenal win another trophy and the PL at that given the competition.
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Could it be Arteta is a better manager than Poch ever was?
 
glorygloryeze said:
But we have been through this process before with Poch and still didn't get over the line then (in terms of winning a trophy) and haven't done most years under ENIC when we've had chances. Arsenal aren't doing anything different to us really yet look like not only getting a trophy but actually winning a PL title...hence my point that the excuses for not winning trophies under ENIC (whatever those trophies are) wash away if Arsenal win another trophy and the PL at that given the competition.
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The difference is having money to add quality when it was needed - i kinda addressed this in another post earlier, but the Poch team peaked a couple of years before we could spend money as a result of the stadium bringing in revenue so his team stagnated and then fell apart rather than kicking on. That has left us needing to rebuild rather than refresh. Had it peaked when we could spend, then the money would have been there to sustain our level and try to improve. It's the same as with Klopp at Liverpool, they built a good team over a few windows and then added quality when it was needed in a couple of areas and that took them up a level. We aren't yet at that point, Conte needs the balance of the squad to tip in his favour (more players that allow him to play his way) and then from there we add quality to keep the ball rolling. People don't seem to realose we need to do the first part before we can look to do the second.
 
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Raziel said:
No, it would just highlight we should have taken it over the line the year Leicester won. It's actually a very similar season (Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the mix, with United now as well)
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It's different. Arsenal have been very good from the start of the season. We were just ok and never led the league. This Arsenal side and that Tottenham side are two different propositions. We were finding ourselves during the season Arsenal have already worked out who they are. Arsenal are the Leicester of that season not the Tottenham.

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billyiddo said:
The difference is having money to add quality when it was needed - i kinda addressed this in another post earlier, but the Poch team peaked a couple of years before we could spend money as a result of the stadium bringing in revenue so his team stagnated and the fell apart rather than kicking on. Had it peaked when we could spend then the money would have been there to sustain our level and try to improve.
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It was Levys decision not to back him and causing frustration in their relationship. I understand that Levy offered pochettino players but he was not interested. Instead he should have been given the players that he needed. Anyway thank fudge Hitchin it's gone. I actualy think Levy pochettino and paratici could do wonders. If again levy is prepared to respect pochettino enough by actually backing him fully
 
glorygloryeze said:
I honestly think a league win for Arsenal leaves ENIC with no excuses whatsoever. Regardless of how much Arsenal have spent has anyone looked at the spending and who they bought and thought, "Wow they are really pushing for a league title challenge with those buys.."
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No, but they have identified players that have potential, the right attitude and mentality and would likely fit into the group.
A functional group is more important than the manager imo.
 
glorygloryeze said:
But we have been through this process before with Poch and still didn't get over the line then (in terms of winning a trophy) and haven't done most years under ENIC when we've had chances. Arsenal aren't doing anything different to us really yet look like not only getting a trophy but actually winning a PL title...hence my point that the excuses for not winning trophies under ENIC (whatever those trophies are) wash away if Arsenal win another trophy and the PL at that given the competition.
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Arsenal strengthened their first 11 and squad whereas we brought no one in for 18 months. Its not the same situation. If we had strengthened then maybe we would have challenged again, instead we withered away to die.

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Bishop said:
Arsenal strengthened their first 11 and squad whereas we brought no one in for 18 months. Its not the same situation. If we had strengthened then maybe we would have challenged again, instead we withered away to die.

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That backs up my point, but really i'm talking of the time over many tears not just that summer/18 month period where we bought no-one
 
Gazza said:
It was Levys decision not to back him and causing frustration in their relationship. I understand that Levy offered pochettino players but he was not interested. Instead he should have been given the players that he needed. Anyway thank fudge Hitchin it's gone. I actualy think Levy pochettino and paratici could do wonders. If again levy is prepared to respect pochettino enough by actually backing him fully
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Look you either understsnd/accept the club is run in a sustainable fashion or you don't - the stadium move restricted what we could spend and therefore the players that could be signed/targeted - that is no longer an issue, which is the point being made above, we have the money to sustain and push on once we have rebuilt the team, this will be new ground for us/ ENIC so they need to be judged on what they do in those circumstances then, not before.
 
billyiddo said:
The difference is having money to add quality when it was needed - i kinda addressed this in another post earlier, but the Poch team peaked a couple of years before we could spend money as a result of the stadium bringing in revenue so his team stagnated and then fell apart rather than kicking on. That has left us needing to rebuild rather than refresh. Had it peaked when we could spend, then the money would have been there to sustain our level and try to improve. It's the same as with Klopp at Liverpool, they built a good team over a few windows and then added quality when it was needed in a couple of areas and that took them up a level. We aren't yet at that point, Conte needs the balance of the squad to tip in his favour (more players that allow him to play his way) and then from there we add quality to keep the ball rolling. People don't seem to realose we need to do the first part before we can look to do the second.
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We did have money though. The bids for De Jong and De Ligt plus the Grealish nonsense shows that money was there. I think the goodwill between Poch and Levy did start straining though (hence perhaps Poch's inflexibility regarding targets that summer) and that is understandable given the past targets missed and the compromises made (e.g. Nkoudou instead of Mane etc).

My point is ENIC are a common factor going back years and i feel it's their football decision-making (or often lack of right timing plus the apparent neglect of our youth scouting network as claimed by @Finney Is Back) is the main factor why we've gone more than a decade without a trophy, though with some good memories in CL etc.

When people talk about lack of winning mentality/fibre/ethos whatever at Spurs, i think it starts with ENIC
 
we need to focus on what's next. A lot of sidetracked issues. we need a progressive manager who can develop youth, improve players, and whether people like it or not Poch is probably the best candidate.

doubt it will happen.
 
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