Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Grays_1890]

We've got the 5th/6th highest wage bill and are a long way short of the top 4 wage bills in the country. Why would we expect to outperform clubs spending vastly more than us?

Because football doesn't work like that as the underperformance of Chelse and Liverpool prove. Based on that and the fact our wage bill is bigger than Newcastles who stand out as our biggest rival to 4th currently, by that logic we should be taking advantage of those clubs downturn and fact we pay more in wages than Saudi Sportswashing Machine surely?

We are 4th currently with 9 defeats regardless of what works on paper, based on the circumstances presented this season and the fact two of the clubs in your top 4 being out the running for most of the season I wouldn't call it over performing this season.



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[Finney Is Back]

Because football doesn't work like that as the underperformance of Chelse and Liverpool prove. Based on that and the fact our wage bill is bigger than Newcastles who stand out as our biggest rival to 4th currently, by that logic we should be taking advantage of those clubs downturn and fact we pay more in wages than Saudi Sportswashing Machine surely?

We are 4th currently with 9 defeats regardless of what works on paper, based on the circumstances presented this season and the fact two of the clubs in your top 4 being out the running for most of the season I wouldn't call it over performing this season.



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Liverpool and Chelsea could well yet both finish above us in the table this season.

Our wage bill is indeed bigger than Saudi Sportswashing Machine's but they have had the advantage of no European football this year so have been able to keep their first team fresher than us.

Our par position is 5th/6th. Conte overachieved last season. Not too many managers can overachieve every season (we clearly had one of those in Poch but the chairman sacked him).

 

[Grays_1890]

Because Danjuma was essentially free. Instead of giving our manager the man that he wanted for the right squad balance, we instead brought in a player that plays on the other side of the pitch simply because he happened to be =free. Us fans then complain when the manager of our football club doesn't go on an win a trophy or can't manage to finish 2 or more places above our par finishing position.

Danjuma is one player, its a stretch to suggest or allude to the fact that it is a reason we lost to a Sheffield United second string.

I'm not going to even argue on priorities so let's assume you are right and all priorities are for 4th, I would still expect a manager of Conte ability and experience and his HUGE backroom staff to be able to navigate said cup ties with the resources he had, priority or not...

Danjuma ironically scored 15 goals in th3 Championship, maybe a player who fits perfectly for the job....amazingly able to do so for Bournmouth but not for Spurs? I fail to join up the logic there TBH

Just to be clear I think Levy and Co have HUGE questions to answer but I also think Conte takes blame for actions and attitudes this season and isn't as hamstrung as many would make out...


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[Finney Is Back]

Danjuma is one player, its a stretch to suggest or allude to the fact that it is a reason we lost to a Sheffield United second string.

I'm not going to even argue on priorities so let's assume you are right and all priorities are for 4th, I would still expect a manager of Conte ability and experience and his HUGE backroom staff to be able to navigate said cup ties with the resources he had, priority or not...

Danjuma ironically scored 15 goals in th3 Championship, maybe a player who fits perfectly for the job....amazingly able to do so for Bournmouth but not for Spurs? I fail to join up the logic there TBH

Just to be clear I think Levy and Co have HUGE questions to answer but I also think Conte takes blame for actions and attitudes this season and isn't as hamstrung as many would make out...


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He's already got two players for LWF (Son and Richarlison). He has one player (Kulu) for the right side plus Moura - who we all sadly know is no longer up to the standard we require.

Remember when Mourinho wanted a centre back (Skriniar) and the club instead got him Rodon?.... but not content with that drop off in quality, we also signed him on the very last day of the extended window for lower league players, which meant he wasn't eligible for the early European games so couldn't get bedded into the team against lower quality opposition. With these sorts of decisions we set ourselves up to fail.

I was very angry at the massive rotation of the first team for the Sheffield United game. I think losing that game put a massive dampener on our season. However, what I see at Spurs are managers toeing the party line when it comes to the targets set from the man at the top. Conte was resting players to do all he could to win the game at Wolves the following weekend instead of all he could to win that FA Cup match, it was clearly not a priority. The fact that we then went on to lose at Wolves and go out to AC Milan was something of a delicious irony really. I think the team would've been in a great mindset having got the FA Cup qtr finals with a home tie against Blackburn to come and then gone and won both the Wolves and AC Milan games.

 

[Grays_1890]

Liverpool and Chelsea could well yet both finish above us in the table this season.

Our wage bill is indeed bigger than Saudi Sportswashing Machine's but they have had the advantage of no European football this year so have been able to keep their first team fresher than us.

Our par position is 5th/6th. Conte overachieved last season. Not too many managers can overachieve every season (we clearly had one of those in Poch but the chairman sacked him).

We are 11 points clear of Chelsea with 10 games left, my point remains, as the season has presented itself one of the teams you rightly claim have more resources are under performing so by your own rational we should move up a place?

If Conte can't finish above Chelsea this season with that gap and our run in then there should be serous questions.

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[Finney Is Back]

We are 11 points clear of Chelsea with 10 games left, my point remains, as the season has presented itself one of the teams you rightly claim have more resources are under performing so by your own rational we should move up a place?

If Conte can't finish above Chelsea this season with that gap and our run in then there should be serous questions.

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Well at present he is set to do so.... but might get sacked in the next few days anyway.

 

[Grays_1890]

He's already got two players for LWF (Son and Richarlison). He has one player (Kulu) for the right side plus Moura - who we all sadly know is no longer up to the standard we require.

Remember when Mourinho wanted a centre back (Skriniar) and the club instead got him Rodon?.... but not content with that drop off in quality, we also signed him on the very last day of the extended window for lower league players, which meant he wasn't eligible for the early European games so couldn't get bedded into the team against lower quality opposition. With these sorts of decisions we set ourselves up to fail.

I was very angry at the massive rotation of the first team for the Sheffield United game. I think losing that game put a massive dampener on our season. However, what I see at Spurs are managers toeing the party line when it comes to the targets set from the man at the top. Conte was resting players to do all he could to win the game at Wolves the following weekend instead of all he could to win that FA Cup match, it was clearly not a priority. The fact that we then went on to lose at Wolves and go out to AC Milan was something of a delicious irony really. I think the team would've been in a great mindset having got the FA Cup qtr finals with a home tie against Blackburn to come and then gone and won both the Wolves and AC Milan games.

Even toeing a party line I would expect Conte to navigate Sheffield United with what he had at his disposable and that's hardly a harsh view given the fact they played a second string and the huge disparity in money and wages on the pitch for us still.





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[Lemonade Money]

The answer is to have a proper long term plan in the first place and not keep on lurching from one manager to another, generally with those managers having completely different football philosophies.

Yep, it's as easy as that, and no fan will ever moan again, for ever after.

 

[glorygloryeze]

We are 11 points clear of Chelsea with 10 games left, my point remains, as the season has presented itself one of the teams you rightly claim have more resources are under performing so by your own rational we should move up a place?

If Conte can't finish above Chelsea this season with that gap and our run in then there should be serous questions.

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The point is can Ryan Mason finish above Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Liverpool?

What a crap situation!

I agree with @Finney Is Back we have 20 years plus of evidence that at the top of the club the tone is set; Poch was the one who tried the most to get us to act differently and even he failed.
I think he (Poch) would actually be mad to return...

 

[glorygloryeze]

Even toeing a party line I would expect Conte to navigate Sheffield United with what he had at his disposable and that's hardly a harsh view given the fact they played a second string and the huge disparity in money and wages on the pitch for us still.





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I agree with this too

 

[Grays_1890]

The point is can Ryan Mason finish above Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Liverpool?

What a crap situation!

I agree with @Finney Is Back we have 20 years plus of evidence that at the top of the club the tone is set; Poch was the one who tried the most to get us to act differently and even he failed.
I think he (Poch) would actually be mad to return...

I don't want Ryan Mason, I would make Conte see out the season as much as I think his time with us is up and in part self inflicted.

I think the tone point is valid and over played on though, many fans now add up all negatives and attribute them to every point in the club to strengthen their argument. For example like most on here I have been at alot of cup games and could probably tell you individually why we lost games each year as well as the reasons we have won games, the idea that players are going out on the pitch and not giving their all or Spurs cup record plays on Richys mind when he blazes over from 12 yards is just abit of a convenient narrative. Yes when you add up the 20 years its been failure but when you break it down not every failure is down to Levy, the board, lack of investment or priorities. Thats my point really, there is generally, in football a collective issue to failure as much as success is generally never down to one person either.

Anyway, its likely that Conte is gone, an experiment for balance I do lay at Levy as I did Jose

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don't want Ryan Mason, I would make Conte see out the season as much as I think his time with us is up and in part self inflicted.

I think the tone point is valid and over played on though, many fans now add up all negatives and attribute them to every point in the club to strengthen their argument. For example like most on here I have been at alot of cup games and could probably tell you individually why we lost games each year as well as the reasons we have won games, the idea that players are going out on the pitch and not giving their all or Spurs cup record plays on Richys mind when he blazes over from 12 yards is just abit of a convenient narrative. Yes when you add up the 20 years its been failure but when you break it down not every failure is down to Levy, the board, lack of investment or priorities. Thats my point really, there is generally, in football a collective issue to failure as much as success is generally never down to one person either.

Anyway, its likely that Conte is gone, an experiment for balance I do lay at Levy as I did Jose

I go back to Poch's comments when we went out of two cups in a week and he said "trophies are for egos". Then the sacking of Jose days before a cup final.
Then the constant rotation we see for FA Cup games over the years that make us mad.

I just don't think the people at the top set a tone wrt to trophies. I don't actually think anyone on the board would know how to as that kind of 'DNA memory' is simply not there now...

 

[DeanoAustin]

Liverpool and Chelsea could well yet both finish above us in the table this season.

Our wage bill is indeed bigger than Saudi Sportswashing Machine's but they have had the advantage of no European football this year so have been able to keep their first team fresher than us.

Our par position is 5th/6th. Conte overachieved last season. Not too many managers can overachieve every season (we clearly had one of those in Poch but the chairman sacked him).

That's the thing with this bizarrely. Conte will be fired having achieved a very unlikely 4th place and having us in 4th again. There will be no shortage of people, fans and pundits, who when we have a bad spell will be trotting out the "well what do they expect, they sacked a manager who had them where they wanted to be." The fact his position is untenable will be largely forgotten when it suits a narrative.

I don't want Ryan Mason, I would make Conte see out the season as much as I think his time with us is up and in part self inflicted.

I think the tone point is valid and over played on though, many fans now add up all negatives and attribute them to every point in the club to strengthen their argument. For example like most on here I have been at alot of cup games and could probably tell you individually why we lost games each year as well as the reasons we have won games, the idea that players are going out on the pitch and not giving their all or Spurs cup record plays on Richys mind when he blazes over from 12 yards is just abit of a convenient narrative. Yes when you add up the 20 years its been failure but when you break it down not every failure is down to Levy, the board, lack of investment or priorities. Thats my point really, there is generally, in football a collective issue to failure as much as success is generally never down to one person either.

Anyway, its likely that Conte is gone, an experiment for balance I do lay at Levy as I did Jose

I don't want Mason either. Nothing against the lad, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and like him but it just feels like filler appointment. The thought of going to the Brighton game seems like a chore to be honest. Whereas, if Poch was coming back, the place would be absolutely rocking.

 

[Grays_1890]

I go back to Poch's comments when we went out of two cups in a week and he said "trophies are for egos". Then the sacking of Jose days before a cup final.
Then the constant rotation we see for FA Cup games over the years that make us mad.

I just don't think the people at the top set a tone wrt to trophies. I don't actually think anyone on the board would know how to as that kind of 'DNA memory' is simply not there now...

Those comments are not in context of the wider interview

Jose was sacked because he was tosh

I've gone over the rotation myth on another thread and proven that we went out of most cups in the last 20 years with full strength sides, was pretty much all bar 3 teams, ironically those under Jose and Conte.

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[glorygloryeze]

Those comments are not in context of the wider interview

Jose was sacked because he was tosh

I've gone over the rotation myth on another thread and proven that we went out of most cups in the last 20 years with full strength sides, was pretty much all bar 3 teams, ironically those under Jose and Conte.

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My point was those comments almost certainly came from the way the board views the cups vs CL and all the money that brings. The way Poch was and his love of football don't tally with those comments.
Jose was indeed tosh, but sack him before a cup final, especially when we had several chances to before? Really??

We have risen organically up the Delloite and other football money ranks over the time ENIC have been with us; is there another team that has risen in a similar fashion financially but also has only one trophy in that timeframe of financial growth?

 

[billyiddo]

Even toeing a party line I would expect Conte to navigate Sheffield United with what he had at his disposable and that's hardly a harsh view given the fact they played a second string and the huge disparity in money and wages on the pitch for us still.





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If Finney is going to use wages in such an absoloute fashion to dictate the yardstick for performance then he needs to be consistent and do so across all competitions- LC, FAC & CL (I'd imagine) we have gone out to sides below us wrt to resources

 

[Lilbaz]

My point was those comments almost certainly came from the way the board views the cups vs CL and all the money that brings. The way Poch was and his love of football don't tally with those comments.
Jose was indeed tosh, but sack him before a cup final, especially when we had several chances to before? Really??

We have risen organically up the Delloite and other football money ranks over the time ENIC have been with us; is there another team that has risen in a similar fashion financially but also has only one trophy in that timeframe of financial growth?

A few that have none. Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, villa, leeds. All were of a similar size to us when enic took over. Their turnover may not have risen as high as ours but their owners have pumped money into them.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Jesus Christ...scary stat that.

 

[Grays_1890]

My point was those comments almost certainly came from the way the board views the cups vs CL and all the money that brings. The way Poch was and his love of football don't tally with those comments.
Jose was indeed tosh, but sack him before a cup final, especially when we had several chances to before? Really??

We have risen organically up the Delloite and other football money ranks over the time ENIC have been with us; is there another team that has risen in a similar fashion financially but also has only one trophy in that timeframe of financial growth?

Danny Rose did an interview in the Standard where he clarified Poch comments and said he was mythed by them but then understood them because of the CL run we had, the context was that the LC would pale in significance to being involved in the business end of the CL, Rose in his interview said until he was involved in such a run he wouldn't agree but changed his mind and said he had experienced nothing like it. So I think they were very much Poch view also during a time when we were close to winning the league twice again adds context IMO.

As for the second point, as I've said numerous times, we have been in more cup semi finals and finals in the last 10 years (Eight) than probably any 10 years before, even when we won things....the fact alone means we never de prioritised cups and that there were likely more circumstances...mistakes, selections, tactics, the game itself, and yes strength but you are going to player better sides....

You think the club didn't wanna beat Blackburn when Hoddle was incharge? Or any other cup in a big game near the finishing line? Maybe the club pressured the manager to brick the bed against a relegated Portsmouth to lose a semi final or Sissoko to hold out an arm in the CL final, I'm sure Dembele took a dive in possession against United because of the clubs negative attitude towards cup football

I'm sorry I don't buy that narrative, frankly I see alot of failure to win things at the rip end of competitions that beg other questions rather than club priorities. I also watch a game where the opposition rarely turn up to roll over as much as we would like them to

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[Bishop]

Bergwijn was purchased under Mourinho - no?

Mourinho didn't even want him. He needed a striker because Kane was out for a couple of Months and Son had the broken arm. Mourinho wanted a striker...so we got him Bergwijn. [emoji1787]

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