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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Lilbaz said:
Buying club players that weren't the managers choice. Some work some don't they are punts. Bale, dawson and walker worked out. Clarke didn't.
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We were in different situations with those. You effectively ban yourself from buying players and the first time you come out of that self-imposed embargo you buy Clarke. Not a priority and we can see how it effected Poch's mood...

Punts are good, but you prioritise what's really needed first
 
Finney Is Back said:
Indeed. We keep on changing the coach. We've not had the same manager start and end the season since 2019. Two of those coaches are amongst the most decorated coaches presently in the game. At what point do people accept that the reason our football club doesn't win things isn't due to the coach?
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So the answer is to keep Conte? What do we do next? Pray that we get taken over by Saudi Arabia? That sounds like a whole lot more fun.
 
glorygloryeze said:
We were in different situations with those. You effectively ban yourself from buying players and the first time you come out of that self-imposed embargo you buy Clarke. Not a priority and we can see how it effected Poch's mood...

Punts are good, but you prioritise what's really needed first
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Equally you don't exclude yourself from buying young talent or strengthening depth because you miss out on your targets.

People conflate going out and getting a Spence or Gil with them being considered starters or needed class here and now because they use it as a stick to beat the club with about going cheap when in reality with Doherty and Royal already at the club Spence was never that. And is it that much of a hamstring for a manager to have a player or players with a view to the future a future he is unlikely to be gaffer given his short term contract?

All clubs do it, people drill down on Spurs because we don't always get out major targets over the line, but the two aren't the same IMO, Clarke, Spence, Gil were not purchased as "alternatives"



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Finney Is Back said:
The answer is to have a proper long term plan in the first place and not keep on lurching from one manager to another, generally with those managers having completely different football philosophies.
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Of course it is. That’s what we should all be able to agree on now.

But it still means we keep Conte?
 
Here’s how I see it:

- Levy got very lucky with Pochettino. He accelerated our progress in ways none of us could have imagined (2nd in the League, CL Final)
- Levy was blinded by this and made easily the biggest mistake of his tenure by replacing Poch with Mourinho
- Many people could have seen that at the time, but I’ve never run a Premier League football club and I don’t judge him too harshly for getting that wrong
- The eventual appointment of Nuno was a calamity all round, by a chairman confused and burned by the amazing fall from grace after Poch and with the additional confusion of handing these things off to Paratici
- Again, I’ve never run a Premier League club so I don’t know the pressure or the process that would have gone in to that
- Absolutely everyone could have seen the potential for Conte going wrong, but I’d say 95% of the fan base was extremely excited by his appointment, regardless of the fact that it went against the famous “Tottenham DNA”
- None of the above is in any possible way justification for keeping Conte any longer
- This next appointment, like literally every single appointment before it, is the most important appointment we’ve ever made
- It needs to be either Poch himself or someone in the same mould
- For all Levy’s mistakes and issues, it’s still very much a case of better the devil you know for me.
 
glorygloryeze said:
We were in different situations with those. You effectively ban yourself from buying players and the first time you come out of that self-imposed embargo you buy Clarke. Not a priority and we can see how it effected Poch's mood...

Punts are good, but you prioritise what's really needed first
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You might have a point if clarke was our only signing. But we brought in ndombele, lo celso, bergwijn and sess too.
 
glorygloryeze said:
It WAS random though. We weren't scouting him, he is not someone to rotate on Kulu's side and we only signed him because his agent called us NOT because we chased him. Yes, it was indeed good to get him on loan, but we could maybe have pushed more to get Zaniolo on loan instead?
What about a centre back who's better than Dier on loan?
Again, priorities and strategy...
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Roma did not want a loan deal. As for a CB on loan who's better than Dier, which one did you have in mind?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Most workers in most places tend to work to their 'target'. Very few humans have a nature that sees them want to absolutely smash their targets. The target for Spurs is CL qualification. Until that target properly changes we are unlikely to see us do any better than that.
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The target comes from the manager too, though. After finishing 4th last year and with reinforcements over the summer, Conte's message could have been "we'll give it our best shot. We don't have all the pieces in place, but with a full pre-season and reinforcements I expect us to do better than last year and, if luck is a bit on our side, we may achieve silverware too." Instead he was downplaying our chances the entire time and talking about how top 4 is a trophy. Yeah, it was the previous year given what he inherited, but this year he should have set his sights higher. But he didn't. Was it to cover his ass? Was it because he didn't believe it himself? I don't know. But it's definitely not because the club went behind his back and told the players "don't worry lads, all we need is top 4."

In most places that I work our bosses set stretch goals to motivate us to do better. That is the manager's responsibility in a football club. But if you're afraid to stick your neck out lest you tarnish your reputation, you'll downplay the goals so that you end up looking good in the end. And that's squarely on Conte.
 
Lilbaz said:
You might have a point if clarke was our only signing. But we brought in ndombele, lo celso, bergwijn and sess too.
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Bergwijn was in January, butb the point was that the fisrt signin we did in over a year was a punt, whilst the main signings mostly didn't get done before deadline day.
Maybe they could have been signed and integrated early into the team training schedule instead wasting time on getting in the punt.
Even Poch was livid about this.

As i say, same old, same old
 
Finney Is Back said:
He plays on the other side of the pitch. Conte wanted to lose Gil to get Zaniolo and Zaniolo was available
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So why didn't we sign Zaniolo? I mean, we signed Porro, a player Conte wanted and a position where we had other options and even let Doherty leave on a free to accommodate him, yet we balked at Zaniolo? Don't you think there might have been some other underlying reason why we, and no other half-decent club in Europe, didn't sign him?
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Equally you don't exclude yourself from buying young talent or strengthening depth because you miss out on your targets.

People conflate going out and getting a Spence or Gil with them being considered starters or needed class here and now because they use it as a stick to beat the club with about going cheap when in reality with Doherty and Royal already at the club Spence was never that. And is it that much of a hamstring for a manager to have a player or players with a view to the future a future he is unlikely to be gaffer given his short term contract?

All clubs do it, people drill down on Spurs because we don't always get out major targets over the line, but the two aren't the same IMO, Clarke, Spence, Gil were not purchased as "alternatives"



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Nothing wrong with buying young talent, but as i keep saying it's about priorities and doing what is needed alongside the punts.
We brought in Rodon as a punt it seems, look how that has gone.
 
alekaras said:
The target comes from the manager too, though. After finishing 4th last year and with reinforcements over the summer, Conte's message could have been "we'll give it our best shot. We don't have all the pieces in place, but with a full pre-season and reinforcements I expect us to do better than last year and, if luck is a bit on our side, we may achieve silverware too." Instead he was downplaying our chances the entire time and talking about how top 4 is a trophy. Yeah, it was the previous year given what he inherited, but this year he should have set his sights higher. But he didn't. Was it to cover his ass? Was it because he didn't believe it himself? I don't know. But it's definitely not because the club went behind his back and told the players "don't worry lads, all we need is top 4."

In most places that I work our bosses set stretch goals to motivate us to do better. That is the manager's responsibility in a football club. But if you're afraid to stick your neck out lest you tarnish your reputation, you'll downplay the goals so that you end up looking good in the end. And that's squarely on Conte.
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We've got the 5th/6th highest wage bill and are a long way short of the top 4 wage bills in the country. Why would we expect to outperform clubs spending vastly more than us?
 
alekaras said:
So why didn't we sign Zaniolo? I mean, we signed Porro, a player Conte wanted and a position where we had other options and even let Doherty leave on a free to accommodate him, yet we balked at Zaniolo? Don't you think there might have been some other underlying reason why we, and no other half-decent club in Europe, didn't sign him?
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Because Danjuma was essentially free. Instead of giving our manager the man that he wanted for the right squad balance, we instead brought in a player that plays on the other side of the pitch simply because he happened to be =free. Us fans then complain when the manager of our football club doesn't go on an win a trophy or can't manage to finish 2 or more places above our par finishing position.
 
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