Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Daisuk]

Interesting discussion between Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville re Conte and Spurs

I agree with most of what Neville says, actually, but he's leaving out the fact that watching us is like watching paint dry. It's just not very fun to watch.

 

[paxtonwolf]

I agree with most of what Neville says, actually, but he's leaving out the fact that watching us is like watching paint dry. It's just not very fun to watch.

Agree, he does talk a lot of sense of late. Amazing the position we are considering some of the football we are serving up.

Anybody looking at our season without seeing any match highlights or reading mach reports, would look at the League Table, 5th position, 3pts off the Top Four, 3rd highest scorers, still in the FA Cup and Last 16 of the CL and say, Looks a decent season so far, whats your problem?

Unfortunately Arsenal's freak season is making all look even worse

 

[Lilbaz]

That squad, the 2011-12 one, should have won a trophy.

Could you imagine if kane was in it?

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree with most of what Neville says, actually, but he's leaving out the fact that watching us is like watching paint dry. It's just not very fun to watch.

Yes, but we're not playing the way conte wants at the moment. Something is missing. Son, lloris, mistakes, whatever it is. We've seen us play well under conte, towards the end of last season and in parts this (usually 2nd half of games). It could work, which is the galling thing. As neville said, we were all super excited at the beginning of the season. We just haven't lived up to expectations and arsenal have far exceeded theirs.

 

[braineclipse]

What was the rest of the story? That Levy decided he wanted Mourinho more? I have seen plenty of people on this forum talk about Arsenal investing in Arteta through thick and thin. Sadly Enic didn’t do that with Poch, at about the only time there was really some “thin,” they ditched him.

25 points from 24 games. Relegation scrap form in the league over a timespan similar to two thirds of a season.

Pochettino showing no signs of being able to turn that around. Players looking clueless. Continuing with a high pressing style the players couldn't execute. Pochettino looking, from the outside at least, like a man dereft of belief and energy. Looking like a man in desperate need of a breather.

The rest of the story went on behind closed doors. We don't know what happened, but can be certain that there's more to the story.

 

[Mikey10]

25 points from 24 games. Relegation scrap form in the league over a timespan similar to two thirds of a season.

Pochettino showing no signs of being able to turn that around. Players looking clueless. Continuing with a high pressing style the players couldn't execute. Pochettino looking, from the outside at least, like a man dereft of belief and energy. Looking like a man in desperate need of a breather.

The rest of the story went on behind closed doors. We don't know what happened, but can be certain that there's more to the story.

It amazes me that plenty who are willing to dismiss Conte for ‘not doing well enough with the squad of players that he has’ and are calling for Poch’s return are willing to so easily forget the generally terrible last 12 months of Poch’s tenure, writing it off because ‘he wasn’t backed with the right players.’

 

[elltrev]

It amazes me that plenty who are willing to dismiss Conte for ‘not doing well enough with the squad of players that he has’ and are calling for Poch’s return are willing to so easily forget the generally terrible last 12 months of Poch’s tenure, writing it off because ‘he wasn’t backed with the right players.’

I think there’s a difference - Poch’s decline really kicked in in his fifth season, having received ZERO transfers (and having lost Walker, Wanyama and Dembele). Conte’s has kicked in his second season (and first full one), after losing Bergwijn and getting Bissouma / Richarlison / Perisic / Spence / Lenglet. You can argue how good or bad those new players are, but they’re definitely better than nothing!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think there’s a difference - Poch’s decline really kicked in in his fifth season, having received ZERO transfers (and having lost Walker, Wanyama and Dembele). Conte’s has kicked in his second season (and first full one), after losing Bergwijn and getting Bissouma / Richarlison / Perisic / Spence / Lenglet. You can argue how good or bad those new players are, but they’re definitely better than nothing!

And Poch not changing any of his coaches in that time (unlike the elite managers who do that quite regularly to have a fresh voice and perspective alongside them)

 

[braineclipse]

I think there’s a difference - Poch’s decline really kicked in in his fifth season, having received ZERO transfers (and having lost Walker, Wanyama and Dembele). Conte’s has kicked in his second season (and first full one), after losing Bergwijn and getting Bissouma / Richarlison / Perisic / Spence / Lenglet. You can argue how good or bad those new players are, but they’re definitely better than nothing!

Zero transfers at one point, but not at first. If those success stories were mostly on Pochettino, our scouting team or on Pochettino's player development or whatever. We made some excellent signings early on when he was here.

He also had some excellent players already here, and some who fairly quickly became excellent after he came in. Again, credit to Pochettino for player development. Credit to him for building a team out of them. But it was a very good starting point for him.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Zero transfers at one point, but not at first. If those success stories were mostly on Pochettino, our scouting team or on Pochettino's player development or whatever. We made some excellent signings early on when he was here.

He also had some excellent players already here, and some who fairly quickly became excellent after he came in. Again, credit to Pochettino for player development. Credit to him for building a team out of them. But it was a very good starting point for him.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...ottenham-have-made-under-mauricio-pochettino/
7 out of Poch's 27 buys were a success. 8 if you're including Moura's night in Amsterdam.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I agree with most of what Neville says, actually, but he's leaving out the fact that watching us is like watching paint dry. It's just not very fun to watch.

Agree, he does talk a lot of sense of late. Amazing the position we are considering some of the football we are serving up.

Anybody looking at our season without seeing any match highlights or reading mach reports, would look at the League Table, 5th position, 3pts off the Top Four, 3rd highest scorers, still in the FA Cup and Last 16 of the CL and say, Looks a decent season so far, whats your problem?

Unfortunately Arsenal's freak season is making all look even worse

I agree with Neville from the outside it looks like 'whats the problem'. Where I disagree is he thinks there's a conflict between owner and manager. 'they need to sit down and talk'.
What he's missing is the noise is in the main generated by a section of our fanbase and happily regurgitated by the press (or whatever title they're given these days). Pure drama.
I'm sure the lines of communication are constantly open between Levy- Paratici-Conte. If Conte wanted to make some noise, we would here it. He's not one for talking in riddles. In fact, he's been more on a level (interview wise) than he was last season.

As for progress, we have flat lined despite new recruits. There are mitigating circumstances though. I think I'm right in saying we had our best start to a prem season?. I'd say our performances are Jekyll and Hyde, even within the same game. Stylistically we're not the best but when we're 'switched on' I'd say we're a good watch. Other times it is a bit directionless and mind numbing.

 

[elltrev]

Zero transfers at one point, but not at first. If those success stories were mostly on Pochettino, our scouting team or on Pochettino's player development or whatever. We made some excellent signings early on when he was here.

He also had some excellent players already here, and some who fairly quickly became excellent after he came in. Again, credit to Pochettino for player development. Credit to him for building a team out of them. But it was a very good starting point for him.

I don't disagree on that - I was just responding to a post which specifically compared Poch's last 12 months to Conte's recent months (which I think are very different situations).

 

[braineclipse]

I agree with Neville from the outside it looks like 'whats the problem'. Where I disagree is he thinks there's a conflict between owner and manager. 'they need to sit down and talk'.
What he's missing is the noise is in the main generated by a section of our fanbase and happily regurgitated by the press (or whatever title they're given these days). Pure drama.
I'm sure the lines of communication are constantly open between Levy- Paratici-Conte. If Conte wanted to make some noise, we would here it. He's not one for talking in riddles. In fact, he's been more on a level (interview wise) than he was last season.

As for progress, we have flat lined despite new recruits. There are mitigating circumstances though. I think I'm right in saying we had our best start to a prem season?. I'd say our performances are Jekyll and Hyde, even within the same game. Stylistically we're not the best but when we're 'switched on' I'd say we're a good watch. Other times it is a bit directionless and mind numbing.

Definitely agree.

The question is if we can find that consistency in our performances or not. If mitigating circumstances can be... mitigated. Couple of good transfers, bit of luck with injuries, couple of moments of good fortune to help build confidence and momentum.

 

[billyiddo]

Zero transfers at one point, but not at first. If those success stories were mostly on Pochettino, our scouting team or on Pochettino's player development or whatever. We made some excellent signings early on when he was here.

He also had some excellent players already here, and some who fairly quickly became excellent after he came in. Again, credit to Pochettino for player development. Credit to him for building a team out of them. But it was a very good starting point for him.

Our signings went to brick when Hitchen came on board & the stadium build restricted our spending.

The fact our signings remained poor up until he left & Paratici came in says a lot.

 

[Robspur12]

25 points from 24 games. Relegation scrap form in the league over a timespan similar to two thirds of a season.

Pochettino showing no signs of being able to turn that around. Players looking clueless. Continuing with a high pressing style the players couldn't execute. Pochettino looking, from the outside at least, like a man dereft of belief and energy. Looking like a man in desperate need of a breather.

The rest of the story went on behind closed doors. We don't know what happened, but can be certain that there's more to the story.

Champions League Final and 4th place 6 months before, with a squad that hadn’t been refreshed, it doesn’t matter how he got there, fact is he did. First Champions League final for the club and first time a manager in the PL era had secured spurs a champions league spot through the league 4 times in a row. That doesn’t suit your narrative though. The whole point of my post was he should have been give him an opportunity to rebuild as Arsenal have done with Arteta. The board were impatient and pressed the button at his first major dip because it looked like we might not finish in a champions league position.

 

[Robspur12]

Could you imagine if kane was in it?

Even without him that squad still had Adebayor and Defoe up front. and was good enough to win a trophy. If you look at Arsenal this season they don’t really have an accomplished goal scorer but rather an outstanding team. Similar to us in Redknapp’s final season.

 

[Robspur12]

As for progress, we have flat lined despite new recruits. There are mitigating circumstances though. I think I'm right in saying we had our best start to a prem season?. I'd say our performances are Jekyll and Hyde, even within the same game. Stylistically we're not the best but when we're 'switched on' I'd say we're a good watch. Other times it is a bit directionless and mind numbing.

The biggest issue for this team is its fragility. We come up against a decent team and we lose. That’s the sort of fragility reminds me of the AVB/sherwood season - but with a manager supposedly better than both of them. There may be mitigating circumstances but at the moment it looks difficult to see a change. I also think it hard to make a case that Conte has not been backed in the transfer market so far. Yes he has only had a couple of transfer windows, but he isn’t the sort of manager that tends to build “long term.”

 

[braineclipse]

Champions League Final and 4th place 6 months before, with a squad that hadn’t been refreshed, it doesn’t matter how he got there, fact is he did. First Champions League final for the club and first time a manager in the PL era had secured spurs a champions league spot through the league 4 times in a row. That doesn’t suit your narrative though. The whole point of my post was he should have been give him an opportunity to rebuild. The board were impatient and pressed the button at his first major dip that looked like we might not finish in a champions league position.

I'm not trying to create a narrative. I think what I pointed out is mostly factual. I wanted to add more context. You've added even more, that's fine of course.

The CL run was fantastic. I don't think cup runs are a good predictor for future success, margins are way too slim. I put more stock in league performances over time for that.

I think it's fair to have wanted him to be given the chance to rebuild.

I think he "deserved" that chance to rebuild. He'd done enough. Proven himself. Done great things for this club. But I don't think that was the right time for him to do that here.

Personally I think most likely he was spent. The issues with the squad, how far we'd come and how far we'd fallen. I don't think he was ready to go again at that point. Not with that squad. That's not factual, more speculative of course. But I think there's at least a decent possibility that it's true. If true the decision to let him go would have been the only right one.

I don't think that says a negative word about the man. His "shelf life" as a manager for us was fairly long, in often difficult circumstances.

I absolutely adored him as our manager and was desperate for him to find that flow again with our team. I think he's a great manager under the right circumstances and could be so again for us if the timing is right.

 

[Robspur12]

I'm not trying to create a narrative. I think what I pointed out is mostly factual. I wanted to add more context. You've added even more, that's fine of course.

The CL run was fantastic. I don't think cup runs are a good predictor for future success, margins are way too slim. I put more stock in league performances over time for that.

I think it's fair to have wanted him to be given the chance to rebuild.

I think he "deserved" that chance to rebuild. He'd done enough. Proven himself. Done great things for this club. But I don't think that was the right time for him to do that here.

Personally I think most likely he was spent. The issues with the squad, how far we'd come and how far we'd fallen. I don't think he was ready to go again at that point. Not with that squad. That's not factual, more speculative of course. But I think there's at least a decent possibility that it's true. If true the decision to let him go would have been the only right one.

I don't think that says a negative word about the man. His "shelf life" as a manager for us was fairly long, in often difficult circumstances.

I absolutely adored him as our manager and was desperate for him to find that flow again with our team. I think he's a great manager under the right circumstances and could be so again for us if the timing is right.

The board, imho, made a mistake sacking Poch then appointing Mourinho, Nuno and possibly Conte too. Just like they did by appointing Santini and AVB in their quest to go after the shiniest trinkets in football management. Btw I love Poch but have never argued for him to come back nor is my belief that Conte is the wrong man grounded in some yearning to see Poch return. I think there is a certain type of manager that suits Spurs and it’s usually the managers we end up appointing as second choices.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I agree with Neville from the outside it looks like 'whats the problem'. Where I disagree is he thinks there's a conflict between owner and manager. 'they need to sit down and talk'.
What he's missing is the noise is in the main generated by a section of our fanbase and happily regurgitated by the press (or whatever title they're given these days). Pure drama.
I'm sure the lines of communication are constantly open between Levy- Paratici-Conte. If Conte wanted to make some noise, we would here it. He's not one for talking in riddles. In fact, he's been more on a level (interview wise) than he was last season.

As for progress, we have flat lined despite new recruits. There are mitigating circumstances though. I think I'm right in saying we had our best start to a prem season?. I'd say our performances are Jekyll and Hyde, even within the same game. Stylistically we're not the best but when we're 'switched on' I'd say we're a good watch. Other times it is a bit directionless and mind numbing.

The media aren't making stuff up for fun though. You can see that something is off. The way the side is performing, Conte's interviews. There's clearly an issue. It may not be as big as is being reported but I don't doubt there is a problem. Hopefully we work it out as I think Neville was right when he said something along the lines of "I don't understand why they do it but Tottenham have a habit of creating conflict when things are actually going okay".

The style is getting a lot of stick and that's not without merit. At times we are a hard watch. But at times, we're actually a good watch. Bournemouth second half, Leeds at home, second half v Liverpool at home, Marseilles away second half for example. We played pretty well in those games and if we could play like that for most of the games, I'd be very happy.