Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Robspur12]

And Poch not changing any of his coaches in that time (unlike the elite managers who do that quite regularly to have a fresh voice and perspective alongside them)

I think I remember @Baleforce writing previously on this. The success of coaches like Klopp, Guardiola and Ferguson is not predicated on them refreshing their coaching staff. It’s actually the success that means their coaches are snapped up by other teams to more senior positions. I doubt any of the top level coaches would willingly change a successful coaching team.

 

[Lemonade Money]

The media aren't making stuff up for fun though.

Stopped reading.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The biggest issue for this team is its fragility. We come up against a decent team and we lose. That’s the sort of fragility reminds me of the AVB/sherwood season - but with a manager supposedly better than both of them. There may be mitigating circumstances but at the moment it looks difficult to see a change. I also think it hard to make a case that Conte has not been backed in the transfer market so far. Yes he has only had a couple of transfer windows, but he isn’t the sort of manager that tends to build “long term.”

I agree, it's almost self fulfilling with regards to Contes comments about being not in a position to compete with the top teams.

The fit always has felt clunky, yet the noises Conte makes indicate he understands what he's got himself into and I would say ,'toeing the line', although it must be more than that as I don't see Conte toeing the line anywhere.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The media aren't making stuff up for fun

Quote of the week

 

[Mcfee]

And Poch not changing any of his coaches in that time (unlike the elite managers who do that quite regularly to have a fresh voice and perspective alongside them)

I think that was very significant in terms of burn-out both on the coaching and playing side. Reportedly Poch wanted to bring Arteta on board at one stage which now looks like astute judgement on his part.
Has he shaken up his team since he left us or would we be getting the same old crew if he rejoins us (which I think is inevitable)

 

[elltrev]

I agree, it's almost self fulfilling with regards to Contes comments about being not in a position to compete with the top teams.

The fit always has felt clunky, yet the noises Conte makes indicate he understands what he's got himself into and I would say ,'toeing the line', although it must be more than that as I don't see Conte toeing the line anywhere.

I've felt the same way for a while. How motivating can it be for the players to constantly hear their manager essentially say that our players aren't as good as the other top clubs' players? Might not be a coincidence that vs the other big 5 and Saudi Sportswashing Machine this season our record is: lost 6, drawn 1...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think I remember @Baleforce writing previously on this. The success of coaches like Klopp, Guardiola and Ferguson is not predicated on them refreshing their coaching staff. It’s actually the success that means their coaches are snapped up by other teams to more senior positions. I doubt any of the top level coaches would willingly change a successful coaching team.

Those guys always changed their coaches
Worth checking back to see the churn they went through bringing in new, fresh voices. And I did agree that some left of their own steam but the guys in charge also “encouraged them” to leave

 

[Jordinho]

Champions League Final and 4th place 6 months before, with a squad that hadn’t been refreshed, it doesn’t matter how he got there, fact is he did. First Champions League final for the club and first time a manager in the PL era had secured spurs a champions league spot through the league 4 times in a row. That doesn’t suit your narrative though. The whole point of my post was he should have been give him an opportunity to rebuild as Arsenal have done with Arteta. The board were impatient and pressed the button at his first major dip because it looked like we might not finish in a champions league position.

We'd been in a dip since Christmas. Two freak wins against City and Ajax should not blind us from the fact that the team was in a bad state and Poch didn't seem to have any answers.

 

[Robspur12]

We'd been in a dip since Christmas. Two freak wins against City and Ajax should not blind us from the fact that the team was in a bad state and Poch didn't seem to have any answers.

He didn't have the squad options to have any consistent answers. At different times he lost Kane, Dele and Son and had Sissoko as his midfield anchor. Given those "freak" wins came in the Premier club tournament in Europe, with all the squad challenges, that clearly showed his ability. But hey don't let that get in the way of a narrative. I think as several posters have said, there are lots of Spurs fans who didn't deserve the times Poch gave us as manager.

 

[billyiddo]

We'd been in a dip since Christmas. Two freak wins against City and Ajax should not blind us from the fact that the team was in a bad state and Poch didn't seem to have any answers.

Well yeah - it was in a bad state, hence why 4 years and as many managers later we're still trying to fix it

 

[braineclipse]

He didn't have the squad options to have any consistent answers. At different times he lost Kane, Dele and Son and had Sissoko as his midfield anchor. Given those "freak" wins came in the Premier club tournament in Europe, with all the squad challenges, that clearly showed his ability. But hey don't let that get in the way of a narrative. I think as several posters have said, there are lots of Spurs fans who didn't deserve the times Poch gave us as manager.

We spent a record amount of money under him, getting exactly zero short term fixes to those problems in the squad.

He didn't have the squad, but he was partly responsible for that in the end. Our transfer record in his last couple of years was really poor. Not all on him, but also partly on him.

Are your opinions a part of a narrative as well, or only those that disagree with you that are driving a narrative?

 

[Robspur12]

We spent a record amount of money under him, getting exactly zero short term fixes to those problems in the squad.

He didn't have the squad, but he was partly responsible for that in the end. Our transfer record in his last couple of years was really poor. Not all on him, but also partly on him.

Are your opinions a part of a narrative as well, or only those that disagree with you that are driving a narrative?

For me, the narrative is, (and it does appear to be a pattern), where posters focus only on a narrow part (negative) of what happened in his final 12 months, rather than looking at the context and the big picture of what he had achieved. They also conveniently dismiss the achievements of those 12 months some say 18 months , (they were just cup games, we limped into the top 4), achievements which were still greater for Spurs than anything since or even before him in the PL. It' means that some fans can justify to themselves that it was ok to sack him before he had been given an opportunity to rebuild.

Arteta who spent more money than Poch finished 8th twice and the Arsenal board still kept faith in him. Poch at least deserved one bad season of finishing outside the top 4. It was a bad call by ENIC, and it's not like we have been better since even with 2 so called world class managers and spending shackles loosened. The lesson is careful what you wish for

As for the record amount spent for zero change, he didn't really get enough time to work with those transfers did he? And fwiw Ndombele looked like a really exciting prospect in those first few games he played under Poch.

 

[braineclipse]

For me, the narrative is, (and it does appear to be a pattern), where posters focus only on a narrow part (negative) of what happened in his final 12 months, rather than looking at the context and the big picture of what he had achieved. They also conveniently dismiss the achievements of those 12 months some say 18 months , (they were just cup games, we limped into the top 4), achievements which were still greater for Spurs than anything since or even before him in the PL. It' means that some fans can justify to themselves that it was ok to sack him before he had been given an opportunity to rebuild.

Arteta who spent more money than Poch finished 8th twice and the Arsenal board still kept faith in him. Poch at least deserved one bad season of finishing outside the top 4. It was a bad call by ENIC, and it's not like we have been better since even with 2 so called world class managers and spending shackles loosened. The lesson is careful what you wish for

As for the record amount spent for zero change, he didn't really get enough time to work with those transfers did he? And fwiw Ndombele looked like a really exciting prospect in those first few games he played under Poch.

When you've added context and big picture to this conversation have you added any negatives about Pochettino or anything that may lead one to support the decision of the board. Or have you focused on the positives?

I can list positives about Pochettino for a very long time. But when trying to understand why he was sacked I think focusing on the negatives are rather obviously important.

 

[Robspur12]

When you've added context and big picture to this conversation have you added any negatives about Pochettino or anything that may lead one to support the decision of the board. Or have you focused on the positives?

I can list positives about Pochettino for a very long time. But when trying to understand why he was sacked I think focusing on the negatives are rather obviously important.

I am sorry that I have dragged this thread off Conte. But the last thing I will say is that the negatives, imo, pale into insignificance compared to the positives that the Poch era gave us, such I wouldn't give them the focus that some people do.

 

[Grays_1890]

I am sorry that I have dragged this thread off Conte. But the last thing I will say is that the negatives, imo, pale into insignificance compared to the positives that the Poch era gave us, such I wouldn't give them the focus that some people do.

And a short time of negatives when we had alot of noise round the club with the stadium and CL run

He most def had cash in the bank

 

[glasgowspur]

And a short time of negatives when we had alot of noise round the club with the stadium and CL run

He most def had cash in the bank

Credit in the bank is an oft used phrase on here for players who are struggling, very seldom hear it for managers.

 

[Baleforce]

That team was getting relegated, watch that Brighton game again, they couldn’t lose it quick enough, they were all terrified of being on a football pitch.

Clearly wasn’t his fault, but the boot was needed to reset the team.

 

[Jurgen the German]

We won something in '80?

Sorry wrong year

 

[Diamond Lights]

still feels like we're in purgatory. If Conte is staying fine, sign da ting then. But if he's going in Summer, or not committing, i worry we're wasting 6mths for a new manager to find out who they want and who they dont.

Signing another Wing Back also a concern if the next manager doesn't play that method

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

When you've added context and big picture to this conversation have you added any negatives about Pochettino or anything that may lead one to support the decision of the board. Or have you focused on the positives?

I can list positives about Pochettino for a very long time. But when trying to understand why he was sacked I think focusing on the negatives are rather obviously important.

And a short time of negatives when we had alot of noise round the club with the stadium and CL run

He most def had cash in the bank

That team was getting relegated, watch that Brighton game again, they couldn’t lose it quick enough, they were all terrified of being on a football pitch.

Clearly wasn’t his fault, but the boot was needed to reset the team.

I think you always have to look at things from all sides.

Personally I'd of given Poch the rest of that season BUT it c.ould of easily of been the wrong decision. I went to that Brighton game, and although one game should never dictate a football clubs direction, it really felt like the music died that day. It was the saddest I'd ever left a game, as the break up was real.

I would have let him carry on and Poch himself would have, your heart rules your head and gut sometimes.

It would (will) be interesting to hear from the man himself (probably via Brave New New World) as the man is honest and a realist, it wouldn't surprise me if he admits he needed a break, and given his undying affection and love for us, it doesn't appear he was scarred or resentful.

He'll be back anyway....so we'll all get to do it again.