Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[yiddo37]

I think Sarr has potential but I'm not sure he is necessarily 'delivering'. Yesterday, for example he played a massive part in us conceding the second goal. An experienced player is unlikely to make that same mistake he did there with his positioning.

Sarr and PEH did ok yesterday, it was the tactics that left them outnumbered by 3 and sometimes 4 to 2.

 

[yiddo37]

It would not surprise me the slightest if we now, for once, decide to turn up for both halves vs City and beat them. Just to make sure Arsenal win the title. Would be just typical Tottenham.

Did it last season but just don't see it this time. City have a point to prove and we'll help them prove it.

 

[DubSpur]

My point is, why is keeping him until the summer an option then. Why is that knee-jerk?

We had an excellent second half of the season last year, average (or a little below average) in the league so far this year, into the last 16 of the champions league and we need couple of signings badly.
Sacking a manager on a few recent bad results is a knee-jerk reaction. If there is no sign of improvement and Conte wants out then make the change in the summer.
If we sack a world class manager the first time he hits trouble it doesn't cast a good light on us.

 

[Diamond Lights]

We bought early for once but only the free transfer of Perisic was for the first 11, the others were squad fillers with the possible exception of Bissouma.
If Conte is to stay then we need to get in 1 or 2 first team players every window to become serious challengers for trophies. Conte also needs to commit to a new contract. Otherwise it will be another waste of time and importantly for the fans, another missed opportunity for success.

Bissouma has troubled me all season. He was one of the top CMs at Brighton last season. I watch him closely as i thought he would be a BRILLIANT signing. Hasn't.

Now, i definitely think some of that is on him. However, i've watched him play all season and i specifically make a habit of watching him, as he's someone i wanted us to sign, and he is entirely stifled.

You can tell he's been instructed never to move forward, watch when he receives the ball, he passes it immediately, usually sideways, and sits. Never moving forward. And I genuinely think this is because of the tactical instructions he's been given.

I still 100% believe there's a GEM of a player there. I just don't think he's been given the licence to be creative or push forward in any way. In a 3 man middle he would be insane.

 

[Baleforce]

It would not surprise me the slightest if we now, for once, decide to turn up for both halves vs City and beat them. Just to make sure Arsenal win the title. Would be just typical Tottenham.

typical of city too

 

[Raziel]

Bissouma has troubled me all season. He was one of the top CMs at Brighton last season. I watch him closely as i thought he would be a BRILLIANT signing. Hasn't.

Now, i definitely think some of that is on him. However, i've watched him play all season and i specifically make a habit of watching him, as he's someone i wanted us to sign, and he is entirely stifled.

You can tell he's been instructed never to move forward, watch when he receives the ball, he passes it immediately, usually sideways, and sits. Never moving forward. And I genuinely think this is because of the tactical instructions he's been given.

I still 100% believe there's a GEM of a player there. I just don't think he's been given the licence to be creative or push forward in any way. In a 3 man middle he would be insane.

Bissouma is a good player

 

[glorygloryeze]

Im sorry but that can't be the only retort to defend a manager who is on 15m a year. We have lost 4/5 of last home games, gone behind in the last 10 games or so, the first halves we all know are an issue, his selections are strange and he refuses to change anything ever, that can't be excused by saying he can only manage one way and with huge investment, if anything that sounds like a reason to bin him even more

If we get better personnel we would still get over run in midfield unless that personnel can miraculously morph into an extra body, which has been one of if not our main issues this year, getting overun in the centre. Thats not quality, thats not adapting to your opponents, thats doubling down on your own system that clearly is not working IMHO

And for all Conte greatness this is not the first time he has had this issue, Chelsea in his first season the players took him to one side and said he needed to change his approach and they were right

I'm not defending the manager rather than criticising ENIC. Conte is as Conte does, but we leave ourselves open to accusations that "we didn't back him enough" if we don't give him the toys he needs to get the success he does.

At Chelsea it was HE who wanted to play back 3 but started with aback 4 and then after that mauling (ironically vs Arsenal) he then changed it to his preferred back 3 and didn't look back. It wasn't the players asking him to change things but more him initially using a system the players were used to before switching to HIS preferred back 3.

Slightly reverse issue than with us in that if anything he might need to switch AWAY from his preferred system...

 

[Grays_1890]

I'm not defending the manager rather than criticising ENIC. Conte is as Conte does, but we leave ourselves open to accusations that "we didn't back him enough" if we don't give him the toys he needs to get the success he does.

At Chelsea it was HE who wanted to play back 3 but started with aback 4 and then after that mauling (ironically vs Arsenal) he then changed it to his preferred back 3 and didn't look back. It wasn't the players asking him to change things but more him initially using a system the players were used to before switching to HIS preferred back 3.

Slightly reverse issue than with us in that if anything he might need to switch AWAY from his preferred system...

Conversely though, they whole "if you don't back him it does not work" also works well to mask times when he genuinely might not be doing a very good job.

I mean I see lesser managers hustling with what they have and doing well to pick up points to teams better than what we are losing to with alot less. Brighton, Fulham, Brentford for example, all punching well above what their expectations and team suggest but all deserving of it with their brand of football and systems, we just don't see that same sprinkling of magic from our manager in my opinion and his persona is just dour for the sake of it, nothing comes off positive with him and TBH it can't not have a knock on to those around him. Maybe if his outlook was more positive our performances might follow it

As I have said a few times, his whole lack of tactical changes and sulky mood just doubles down on things when the chips are down, for a world class highly paid manager I expect more.

 

[Grays_1890]

Bissouma has troubled me all season. He was one of the top CMs at Brighton last season. I watch him closely as i thought he would be a BRILLIANT signing. Hasn't.

Now, i definitely think some of that is on him. However, i've watched him play all season and i specifically make a habit of watching him, as he's someone i wanted us to sign, and he is entirely stifled.

You can tell he's been instructed never to move forward, watch when he receives the ball, he passes it immediately, usually sideways, and sits. Never moving forward. And I genuinely think this is because of the tactical instructions he's been given.

I still 100% believe there's a GEM of a player there. I just don't think he's been given the licence to be creative or push forward in any way. In a 3 man middle he would be insane.

I think we have set up most of our CM to fail playing them in a 2 now, its clear we have them overun, he needs to play in a 3, we needed to play a 3 yesterday

 

[glorygloryeze]

Conversely though, they whole "if you don't back him it does not work" also works well to mask times when he genuinely might not be doing a very good job.

I mean I see lesser managers hustling with what they have and doing well to pick up points to teams better than what we are losing to with alot less. Brighton, Fulham, Brentford for example, all punching well above what their expectations and team suggest but all deserving of it with their brand of football and systems, we just don't see that same sprinkling of magic from our manager in my opinion and his persona is just dour for the sake of it, nothing comes off positive with him and TBH it can't not have a knock on to those around him. Maybe if his outlook was more positive our performances might follow it

As I have said a few times, his whole lack of tactical changes and sulky mood just doubles down on things when the chips are down, for a world class highly paid manager I expect more.

I agree, unfortunately this is what he does.

I do think his rep is on the line with us atm. I'm hoping that means he doubles down to coach his way out of this mess he's got us into. Yes, we might not have done enough transfer to become title challengers, but we have done enough not to be constantly schooled by other managers of top 10 sides...

Hopefully, him starting Sarr is a step towards some changes...hopefully...

 

[Diamond Lights]

I think we have set up most of our CM to fail playing them in a 2 now, its clear we have them overun, he needs to play in a 3, we needed to play a 3 yesterday

it's troubling a bunch of Spurs fans on a forum could see that but not the manager of the club. Was such an obvious flaw. i mean my false OMT start literally said that on page one!!

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

We had an excellent second half of the season last year, average (or a little below average) in the league so far this year, into the last 16 of the champions league and we need couple of signings badly.
Sacking a manager on a few recent bad results is a knee-jerk reaction. If there is no sign of improvement and Conte wants out then make the change in the summer.
If we sack a world class manager the first time he hits trouble it doesn't cast a good light on us.

That was my point though, we are not far off fourth (probably nearer than last year) and have done nothing wrong in the CL. You appeared set that we'll be 'doing nothing this season' , hence my question why would you think its knee jerk moving on from him now if you expect no progress/change between now and the end of the season?
Wouldn't it feel like a wasted 5 months and transfer window come May time?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's so bad, I can actually only think of two scenarios where it can work

- You put prime Modric in that midfield alongside Bentancur
- You have such attacking WB's on both sides, (what Pool got away with for a while) that offer such a (almost WC) threat it pushes the opposition back.

Neither option seems very likely

They were actually FBs. So Liverpool could still play 3 in the middle as well.

 

[DubSpur]

That was my point though, we are not far off fourth (probably nearer than last year) and have done nothing wrong in the CL. You appeared set that we'll be 'doing nothing this season' , hence my question why would you think its knee jerk moving on from him now if you expect no progress/change between now and the end of the season?
Wouldn't it feel like a wasted 5 months and transfer window come May time?

No, Conte deserves the 5 months to prove that he can improve the team and wants the job. If every time we have a manager goes through a tough couple of months we sack him then we are never going to progress.
I don't think we will win anything and I think the top 4 will remain as is, but it's not set in stone as we seen last year.
Even if I'm right about finishing outside the top 4 it shouldn't be end of Conte unless he has shown he's not really up for the job. He's had to deal with injuries as well as Son and Lloris turning into conference level players. Maybe Lloris should've been seen but if anybody had said in August that Son is going to be this bad they would have been laughed at.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You can’t beat city or Saudi Sportswashing Machine going forward without being doped
It’s going to be impossible
You have to have owner investment which we will not get from ENIC or a consortium either
It’s got to be a cash rich owner and that means UAE or simialr

Yet Arsenal might win the league and Liverpool did?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yet Arsenal might win the league and Liverpool did?

Pool spent big money, took 4 years and had great recruitment
Arsenal may win the league.. will have been with a manager there 4 years
There is a theme that it’s tens time and sacrifice
Both those clubs had time out of Europe I believe in that period
Both also have spent heavily
We’re doing that now but will we keep a manager here long enough…. Not with conte right now
Your also forgetting new money Saudi Sportswashing Machine

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

Hashegotthesackyet?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Come on mate

- They have the best squad in the league (that they spent over £1.2B to get)
- They just paid £150M+ for a player they wanted
- The are easily capable of spending £200M - £400M to back a new manager in and hide it from FFP with their "sponsorships"

They are simply in a different league financially, how I think they are "better" run is they are patient, and have an acquisition model that seems aligned to manager needs. The comparison for them is Chelsea, who is a cluster fudge and is certainly less efficient (poorly run)

Could we better? always, but if you think a better scouting network or giving Poch another 6 months would have made any difference whatsoever against the likes of City, we will have to respectfully disagree.

All these conversations end in the same place

- to really compete, we need to have money that ENIC can't/doesn't provide
- the difference is I don't need to blame ENIC or come up with some hindsight guess (if/then/what) that believes buying x player or keeping y manager would have changed history.

And let's be honest who and whomever has done things right and done things wrong we did still land ourselves in a 90min game of football in Madrid, the biggest club game in the world. If that game flipped our way I often wonder whether any conversations would be different? Is that how fine the line can be between smiles and dispair.

Personally (and sadly) I don't think it would make a blind bit of difference to people turning toxic at any remote sign of slippage

There were some right pricks in the South Stand yesterday.

 

[Gutter Boy]

No, Conte deserves the 5 months to prove that he can improve the team and wants the job. If every time we have a manager goes through a tough couple of months we sack him then we are never going to progress.
I don't think we will win anything and I think the top 4 will remain as is, but it's not set in stone as we seen last year.
Even if I'm right about finishing outside the top 4 it shouldn't be end of Conte unless he has shown he's not really up for the job. He's had to deal with injuries as well as Son and Lloris turning into conference level players. Maybe Lloris should've been seen but if anybody had said in August that Son is going to be this bad they would have been laughed at.

Maybe his negativity and disciplinarianism has caused Lloris and Son's mental breakdowns? Maybe 4 years without any joy or freedom is taking its toll?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Conte feels a bit like Sunak to me. He's obviously an improvement on the last two nutjobs. But everyone is now just counting down the days till the election and the start of a proper reboot