Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Jordinho]

They say madness is doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting a different result. That's where Conte is at.

It's a thin line between insanity and genius.

 

[Robspur12]

It's not just about Conte, the squad has some huge weaknesses and it doesn't matter who the manager is until they are fixed.

Yesterday was awful mate. We have achieved results against better Arsenal teams with worse Tottenham teams. Yesterday was on Conte not the players, not the board.

 

[Mikey10]

They say madness is doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting a different result. That's where Conte is at.

The board could be accused of doing it over a longer period than Conte.

 

[DubSpur]

Yesterday was awful mate. We have achieved results against better Arsenal teams with worse Tottenham teams. Yesterday was on Conte not the players, not the board.

I'm not saying Conte has no blame in it. There has to be question marks around any manager that sticks with Son for as long as he has, but he has no proper goalkeeper. Switch goalkeepers yesterday and do you think the result would be different?
Can you see Ramsdale throwing the ball in his own net? Or can you see Lloris making the saves that Ramsdale did?

 

[Diamond Lights]

I think Conte needs to go. I’m not gonna be yelling from the sidelines and printing Conte Out stickers but it’s clearly not working.

A few brief thoughts:

1) lack of improvement on players
2) inability to try new methods or players - the fact that in recent weeks Sarr (best player today) and Gil have performed better than others whilst effectively having little to no game time
3) consistently sounds like he’s doing us a favour being here
4) nearly all modern Pl managers have 3 in the middle. Was obvious we would lose today trying 2 in the middle against a midfield 3 of top of the league. He tries it, their second goal was because Odegaard had the entire pitch to roam forward to
5) overall state of recent weeks. We’ve gone behind in what 11 of last 12 games? The football isn’t great. The mood isn’t great. I get he’s meant to be a great manager but maybe he was 5 years ago (like Jose) but again some more modern managers have changed the game up. Saudi Sportswashing Machine do not have a better squad than us but play more on the front foot and look more unified. I think it’s time to move on and try and salvage something from this season

I put a few thoughts down yesterday, thought i'd expand a bit more.

1) Conte's time is up in my view. One thing that people have not commented much on (at least on a brief read) is the role Paratici plays in all this. Will he actually sack off Conte as it's his job? questionable.

2) Conte's system. Is it outdated as some have commented? I'm not saying he's gone full Jose but as mentioned before, not many modern managers and certainly in the PL play that style or method. Everyone keeps saying "he needs the players" - but does he? How do you know that will work when many worse teams can pick apart our system? Saudi Sportswashing Machine again case in point, far worse squad, but overran our system easily because they know (like everyone) we have one style of play.

3) Conte's inflexibility again i already highlighted. But his inability to change, it feels like it's almost on purpose. Like, if he gets sacked off now, he'll turn around to next team and say "look my methods work but the players were brick". Maybe so, but again, no ability to adapt until the horse has bolted. If you dont have the players, dont continue shoe horning them into something that doesn't work. Every team knows how we set up, so surely you adapt?

4) I struggle to see how Sarr can make the first XI for a super important derby in the PL, but Spence ("a club signing") can't make the first XI for a Cup game at home to Portsmouth? Really? Might be crazy but i can tell you know if Conte goes and someone like Poch comes in (hypothetical situation to make my point don't shout at me), Spence will end the season as first choice RB. I honestly think that.

5) We've been found out. the methods worked last season but now people know how we play. So any PL manager worth their grain of salt will find us out.

6) some Media comments i came across - links below:

Really good write up from Jonathan Liew in Guardian: "But when a coach’s commitment to the club feels so conditional, why should anybody else sweat and bleed for it? Conte is not wedded to this project as Pep Guardiola is to Emirates Marketing Project or Jürgen Klopp to Liverpool. He does not empathise with Tottenham as Mikel Arteta does with Arsenal or Gareth Ainsworth with Wycombe. This is a job, and a strictly limited-term job at that, a job to keep him going until something better comes along. His priority, career-wise, is simply not to mess up. Grasp that, and everything you see on the pitch makes a little more sense."

Evening Standard: "Conte’s tactical inflexibility was both baffling and costly, as his two-man midfield of 20-year-old Pape Matar Sarr, making his full Premier League debut, and Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg were outnumbered by Arsenal’s magnificent three of Odegaard, Thomas Partey and Granit Xhaka. The trio were frequently supported by left-back Oleksandr Zinchenko or Nketiah, leaving Spurs completely overrun in the middle of the park."

F365: Spurs have not led at half-time in any of their last 10 Premier League games. In all competitions, that number rises to 14. In those 14 games, Spurs have scored precisely one first-half goal – and they still found themselves 2-1 down at half-time that day, against Leeds... Whether it ends now or in a fortnight or in six months, the Conte Experiment is surely over. And with it too should go Daniel Levy’s attempts to Chelsea shortcut his way to success because he blew the moment to do it the right way in 2017 when Spurs had the best young team in the country and Levy, with some mitigation given the stadium build was a large and necessary distraction, failed to back the manager. That team and coach carried on for a while, even somehow reaching a Champions League final along the way, but an opportunity was missed

Overall lads and ladies, i think it's clear Conte isn't wedded to us. Fine. It hasn't worked out. But it feels like it will be death by a thousand cuts. I look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine as a prime example of a team performing to their ability which Conte isn't getting us to do. 2 weeks left of the window, get someone in (yes, i will say Poch sorry), give them some signings and let's continue to rebuild. Our foundations aren't terrible, we should be doing better.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I put a few thoughts down yesterday, thought i'd expand a bit more.

1) Conte's time is up in my view. One thing that people have not commented much on (at least on a brief read) is the role Paratici plays in all this. Will he actually sack off Conte as it's his job? questionable.

2) Conte's system. Is it outdated as some have commented? I'm not saying he's gone full Jose but as mentioned before, not many modern managers and certainly in the PL play that style or method. Everyone keeps saying "he needs the players" - but does he? How do you know that will work when many worse teams can pick apart our system? Saudi Sportswashing Machine again case in point, far worse squad, but overran our system easily because they know (like everyone) we have one style of play.

3) Conte's inflexibility again i already highlighted. But his inability to change, it feels like it's almost on purpose. Like, if he gets sacked off now, he'll turn around to next team and say "look my methods work but the players were brick". Maybe so, but again, no ability to adapt until the horse has bolted. If you dont have the players, dont continue shoe horning them into something that doesn't work. Every team knows how we set up, so surely you adapt?

4) I struggle to see how Sarr can make the first XI for a super important derby in the PL, but Spence ("a club signing") can't make the first XI for a Cup game at home to Portsmouth? Really? Might be crazy but i can tell you know if Conte goes and someone like Poch comes in (hypothetical situation to make my point don't shout at me), Spence will end the season as first choice RB. I honestly think that.

5) We've been found out. the methods worked last season but now people know how we play. So any PL manager worth their grain of salt will find us out.

6) some Media comments i came across - links below:

Really good write up from Jonathan Liew in Guardian: "But when a coach’s commitment to the club feels so conditional, why should anybody else sweat and bleed for it? Conte is not wedded to this project as Pep Guardiola is to Emirates Marketing Project or Jürgen Klopp to Liverpool. He does not empathise with Tottenham as Mikel Arteta does with Arsenal or Gareth Ainsworth with Wycombe. This is a job, and a strictly limited-term job at that, a job to keep him going until something better comes along. His priority, career-wise, is simply not to mess up. Grasp that, and everything you see on the pitch makes a little more sense."

Evening Standard: "Conte’s tactical inflexibility was both baffling and costly, as his two-man midfield of 20-year-old Pape Matar Sarr, making his full Premier League debut, and Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg were outnumbered by Arsenal’s magnificent three of Odegaard, Thomas Partey and Granit Xhaka. The trio were frequently supported by left-back Oleksandr Zinchenko or Nketiah, leaving Spurs completely overrun in the middle of the park."

F365: Spurs have not led at half-time in any of their last 10 Premier League games. In all competitions, that number rises to 14. In those 14 games, Spurs have scored precisely one first-half goal – and they still found themselves 2-1 down at half-time that day, against Leeds... Whether it ends now or in a fortnight or in six months, the Conte Experiment is surely over. And with it too should go Daniel Levy’s attempts to Chelsea shortcut his way to success because he blew the moment to do it the right way in 2017 when Spurs had the best young team in the country and Levy, with some mitigation given the stadium build was a large and necessary distraction, failed to back the manager. That team and coach carried on for a while, even somehow reaching a Champions League final along the way, but an opportunity was missed

Overall lads and ladies, i think it's clear Conte isn't wedded to us. Fine. It hasn't worked out. But it feels like it will be death by a thousand cuts. I look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine as a prime example of a team performing to their ability which Conte isn't getting us to do. 2 weeks left of the window, get someone in (yes, i will say Poch sorry), give them some signings and let's continue to rebuild. Our foundations aren't terrible, we should be doing better.

I'm all aboard the Conte train but fudge me, that is damning. Absolutely not good enough. If Conte thinks he's too good for us but cannot sort that problem, he's delusional. Frightening.

 

[AdamB]

F365: Spurs have not led at half-time in any of their last 10 Premier League games. In all competitions, that number rises to 14. In those 14 games, Spurs have scored precisely one first-half goal – and they still found themselves 2-1 down at half-time that day, against Leeds

One first half goal in the last 14 games!

I knew the number wouldnt be high, but thought it would have been more than 1!

 

[Raziel]

I put a few thoughts down yesterday, thought i'd expand a bit more.

1) Conte's time is up in my view. One thing that people have not commented much on (at least on a brief read) is the role Paratici plays in all this. Will he actually sack off Conte as it's his job? questionable.

2) Conte's system. Is it outdated as some have commented? I'm not saying he's gone full Jose but as mentioned before, not many modern managers and certainly in the PL play that style or method. Everyone keeps saying "he needs the players" - but does he? How do you know that will work when many worse teams can pick apart our system? Saudi Sportswashing Machine again case in point, far worse squad, but overran our system easily because they know (like everyone) we have one style of play.

3) Conte's inflexibility again i already highlighted. But his inability to change, it feels like it's almost on purpose. Like, if he gets sacked off now, he'll turn around to next team and say "look my methods work but the players were brick". Maybe so, but again, no ability to adapt until the horse has bolted. If you dont have the players, dont continue shoe horning them into something that doesn't work. Every team knows how we set up, so surely you adapt?

4) I struggle to see how Sarr can make the first XI for a super important derby in the PL, but Spence ("a club signing") can't make the first XI for a Cup game at home to Portsmouth? Really? Might be crazy but i can tell you know if Conte goes and someone like Poch comes in (hypothetical situation to make my point don't shout at me), Spence will end the season as first choice RB. I honestly think that.

5) We've been found out. the methods worked last season but now people know how we play. So any PL manager worth their grain of salt will find us out.

6) some Media comments i came across - links below:

Really good write up from Jonathan Liew in Guardian: "But when a coach’s commitment to the club feels so conditional, why should anybody else sweat and bleed for it? Conte is not wedded to this project as Pep Guardiola is to Emirates Marketing Project or Jürgen Klopp to Liverpool. He does not empathise with Tottenham as Mikel Arteta does with Arsenal or Gareth Ainsworth with Wycombe. This is a job, and a strictly limited-term job at that, a job to keep him going until something better comes along. His priority, career-wise, is simply not to mess up. Grasp that, and everything you see on the pitch makes a little more sense."

Evening Standard: "Conte’s tactical inflexibility was both baffling and costly, as his two-man midfield of 20-year-old Pape Matar Sarr, making his full Premier League debut, and Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg were outnumbered by Arsenal’s magnificent three of Odegaard, Thomas Partey and Granit Xhaka. The trio were frequently supported by left-back Oleksandr Zinchenko or Nketiah, leaving Spurs completely overrun in the middle of the park."

F365: Spurs have not led at half-time in any of their last 10 Premier League games. In all competitions, that number rises to 14. In those 14 games, Spurs have scored precisely one first-half goal – and they still found themselves 2-1 down at half-time that day, against Leeds... Whether it ends now or in a fortnight or in six months, the Conte Experiment is surely over. And with it too should go Daniel Levy’s attempts to Chelsea shortcut his way to success because he blew the moment to do it the right way in 2017 when Spurs had the best young team in the country and Levy, with some mitigation given the stadium build was a large and necessary distraction, failed to back the manager. That team and coach carried on for a while, even somehow reaching a Champions League final along the way, but an opportunity was missed

Overall lads and ladies, i think it's clear Conte isn't wedded to us. Fine. It hasn't worked out. But it feels like it will be death by a thousand cuts. I look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine as a prime example of a team performing to their ability which Conte isn't getting us to do. 2 weeks left of the window, get someone in (yes, i will say Poch sorry), give them some signings and let's continue to rebuild. Our foundations aren't terrible, we should be doing better.

Good write up, even if depressing, some thoughts

1. Not worried about Paratici in that aspect, he's a guy who has spent 11 years in a club, Conte doesn't, on the first day he walked in the timer was ticking
2. The system is brick, at best you would have two WBs that swing in crosses (something the PL is pretty decent at dealing with) and runners overloading the box. The problem is you have Son, Kane, Richarlison, Deki, Gil who are all players that would probably be served best by having a midfielder who could pick a pass and manager the tempo of the game (Eriksen has completely changed United, and while I'm not having a go at us not getting him, it shows what a players that manages the ball from midfield and can pass short/long can do). And as you said, predictable, yesterday (no pundit mentioned it) for long periods Arsenal sat deep, whenever we had some rhythm, they stepped back to close the space and kill the transition game, eliminate Son out of game.
3. He's been in self protection mode since day 1, and that aligns with the guardian article, never committed, it's not his fault
4. He's not understanding and this goes back to is he full Jose, youth players matter, the energy and tempo they bring matter, his treatment/management of Sarr, Gil, Spence is borderline criminal. Spence is no question him "proving a point", you did a club signing, doesn't matter I got 6 of my signings, I'm going to pout about this one very logical signing.
5. Too predictable, injuries and form

I'm really wondering if our lack of motion in transfer window is us stuck, do we go spend £45M-£60M on a manger that is highly likely to walk in summer?

The big issue is outside of Poch (who I'm not sure is the answer either way), the media/fans will have a go at whoever is incoming, ETH would have been hugely questioned for us, somehow he was fine for United, could you imagine an Arteta type appointment?.

There is one last comment I heard in the media mentioned but never since, is the Jose/Conte appointments just the clubs desperation to keep Harry? that any new/promising manager means Harry walks?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Good write up, even if depressing, some thoughts

1. Not worried about Paratici in that aspect, he's a guy who has spent 11 years in a club, Conte doesn't, on the first day he walked in the timer was ticking
2. The system is brick, at best you would have two WBs that swing in crosses (something the PL is pretty decent at dealing with) and runners overloading the box. The problem is you have Son, Kane, Richarlison, Deki, Gil who are all players that would probably be served best by having a midfielder who could pick a pass and manager the tempo of the game (Eriksen has completely changed United, and while I'm not having a go at us not getting him, it shows what a players that manages the ball from midfield and can pass short/long can do). And as you said, predictable, yesterday (no pundit mentioned it) for long periods Arsenal sat deep, whenever we had some rhythm, they stepped back to close the space and kill the transition game, eliminate Son out of game.
3. He's been in self protection mode since day 1, and that aligns with the guardian article, never committed, it's not his fault
4. He's not understanding and this goes back to is he full Jose, youth players matter, the energy and tempo they bring matter, his treatment/management of Sarr, Gil, Spence is borderline criminal. Spence is no question him "proving a point", you did a club signing, doesn't matter I got 6 of my signings, I'm going to pout about this one very logical signing.
5. Too predictable, injuries and form

I'm really wondering if our lack of motion in transfer window is us stuck, do we go spend £45M-£60M on a manger that is highly likely to walk in summer?

The big issue is outside of Poch (who I'm not sure is the answer either way), the media/fans will have a go at whoever is incoming, ETH would have been hugely questioned for us, somehow he was fine for United, could you imagine an Arteta type appointment?.

There is one last comment I heard in the media mentioned but never since, is the Jose/Conte appointments just the clubs desperation to keep Harry? that any new/promising manager means Harry walks?

I agree with all of that and i think you are spot on with your last point re Kane: if Conte walks, he does imo. Kane has done his time with the 'up and coming/promising" coach, He wants to win trophies and now. Conte gives the club an air that it will happen very soon, especially after how we gate-crashed top 4 last season and that gives the club time (in theory) to show him we are going places. However, the fact we have been overtaken (in gameplay/coaching terms) by many teams we wouldn't have predicted at the start of the season is quite galling and i think if we don't win something this season Kane will hand in an official request this time in the summer.

I for one wouldn't hold it against him: he's the best striker i've seen in a Spurs shirt and seen the squad playing with him be slowly downgraded in his peak years.
Sad, but hey-ho. If you don't take calculated risks/roll the dice at the right times that's how things can go..

 

[AdamB]

Conte wants to win things Enic don't mind taking a punt ... was doomed from day one

It was a punt/gamble, I agree. Club and manager are a mis-match.

I dont blame Levy for taking that gamble however it hasnt worked so time to move on

 

[glorygloryeze]

It was a punt/gamble, I agree. Club and manager are a mis-match.

I dont blame Levy for taking that gamble however it hasnt worked so time to move on

Prepare for Kane going too if Conte does. Which will be sad but inevitable and i'd be ok with it if there was also change at board level as well...

 

[Diamond Lights]

It was a punt/gamble, I agree. Club and manager are a mis-match.

I dont blame Levy for taking that gamble however it hasnt worked so time to move on

mixed feelings on this. I was buzzing for Conte. I might be proven wrong but i am starting to question the 'serial winner' credentials and thinking his football prime may already be past him, who knows.

That being said, Conte wasn't a project manager and Spurs needed a project. Again, a mismatch of ideologies. Arsenal are reaping the rewards of having a joined up philosophy, we almost had that during Poch, and instead of building on it, Levy did what he always does.

 

[glorygloryeze]

mixed feelings on this. I was buzzing for Conte. I might be proven wrong but i am starting to question the 'serial winner' credentials and thinking his football prime may already be past him, who knows.

That being said, Conte wasn't a project manager and Spurs needed a project. Again, a mismatch of ideologies. Arsenal are reaping the rewards of having a joined up philosophy, we almost had that during Poch, and instead of building on it, Levy did what he always does.

Painful watching Arsenal remind us of the vigour, youth and fearlessness we had in the prime Poch years. If Arsenal win the league it also blows away all the usual excuses people give for us for not winning any trophies in the last decade or so..

 

[Jurgen the German]

Painful watching Arsenal remind us of the vigour, youth and fearlessness we had in the prime Poch years. If Arsenal win the league it also blows away all the usual excuses people give for us for not winning any trophies in the last decade or so..

They have spent more than anyone else the last couple of seasons but point taken for sure. Every team that wins things is either lucky or only wins because they spend money whereas we are the unluckiest team in the world.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Prepare for Kane going too if Conte does. Which will be sad but inevitable and i'd be ok with it if there was also change at board level as well...

I’d be prepared regardless if Conte stays unless we turn things around very quickly. Why would you stay if you were Kane? He’d walk into the United team. Can’t believe I’m saying this, but I wouldn’t totally rule out him going to Arsenal or Chelsea.

 

[glorygloryeze]

They have spent more than anyone else the last couple of seasons but point taken for sure. Every team that wins things is either lucky or only wins because they spend money whereas we are the unluckiest team in the world.

I honestly think a league win for Arsenal leaves ENIC with no excuses whatsoever. Regardless of how much Arsenal have spent has anyone looked at the spending and who they bought and thought, "Wow they are really pushing for a league title challenge with those buys.."

 

[glorygloryeze]

I’d be prepared regardless if Conte stays unless we turn things around very quickly. Why would you stay if you were Kane? He’d walk into the United team. Can’t believe I’m saying this, but I wouldn’t totally rule out him going to Arsenal or Chelsea.

I think United. No chance Arsenal or Chelsea for obvious reasons

 

[Mcfee]

That being said, Conte wasn't a project manager and Spurs needed a project. Again, a mismatch of ideologies. Arsenal are reaping the rewards of having a joined up philosophy, we almost had that during Poch, and instead of building on it, Levy did what he always does.

As @thfcsteff has said elsewhere it’s clear the club ditched the “project” philosophy in favour of short-term appointments in an effort to win something while our best players, Kane & Son were still at their peak. I think summer will bring a change in approach.

 

[Raziel]

Painful watching Arsenal remind us of the vigour, youth and fearlessness we had in the prime Poch years. If Arsenal win the league it also blows away all the usual excuses people give for us for not winning any trophies in the last decade or so..

No, it would just highlight we should have taken it over the line the year Leicester won. It's actually a very similar season (Saudi Sportswashing Machine in the mix, with United now as well)

 

[Lilbaz]

I think United. No chance Arsenal or Chelsea for obvious reasons

Or Saudi Sportswashing Machine.