Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[DubSpur]

They can’t get forward of the midfield don’t keep the ball to allow them to move
There was several times where Doherty ran and we lost the ball leaving him out of position
That game was lost in the centre of the park

We lost it tonight because of the midfield and in general has been our poorest area this season.
If they do sit in front of the defence then the WBs need to get forward and the midfield needs to cover the centre of defence allowing the outside CBs to cover the WBs if moves break down.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We lost it tonight because of the midfield and in general has been our poorest area this season.
If they do sit in front of the defence then the WBs need to get forward and the midfield needs to cover the centre of defence allowing the outside CBs to cover the WBs if moves break down.

But they didn’t sit in front of the defence
They were all over the place but there
Hence why they could shoot at will

 

[Bishop]

I would really like to see 4 at the back. We need extra help in midfield but not at the expense of an attacker.
We'd probably concede a few more but we'd surely have a bit more entertainment.
You give the opposition twice as much possession and three times as many shots, then chances are they're going to win.

We constantly let teams play their way into confidence by letting them have the ball.

We have to be prefect everytime we attack or we're not scoring.

Hah yes I have feel and have felt the same way. I'm just not a fan of 3 at the back. It gives either one less midfielder or one less attacker. Look at today United were able to compress us into our own half due to still always having a spare man.

The problem with 433 as it stands is we don't have the defenders for it. Dier works in the 3 because he has cover on either side. We have now gotten rid of our best LB (Reggie) so can't realistically play that system. We have to plough on with the 5 at the back system and make it work because we are too invested in it now.

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[Bishop]

Hmmm

Pretty much.

We can dress it up in many ways. Fundamentally it's the same thing.

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[Bedfordspurs]

Hah yes I have feel and have felt the same way. I'm just not a fan of 3 at the back. It gives either one less midfielder or one less attacker. Look at today United were able to compress us into our own half due to still always having a spare man.

The problem with 433 as it stands is we don't have the defenders for it. Dier works in the 3 because he has cover on either side. We have now gotten rid of our best LB (Reggie) so can't realistically play that system. We have to plough on with the 5 at the back system and make it work because we are too invested in it now.

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He has never played that system so wont now
I agree on paper it could suit ha

 

[DubSpur]

But they didn’t sit in front of the defence
They were all over the place but there
Hence why they could shoot at will

Agree that they were. But if they are defensive that's what they should be doing. The amount of time that the Utd players had on the edge of the box is fully on the midfield.

 

[Bishop]

He has never played that system so wont now
I agree on paper it could suit ha

He has played it, but without success.

What Conte needs like I've said to you a million times is better more progressive passers and better in possession midfielders. He has always had this at his previous sides. He does not have it now. The WBs will never be able to fly up the pitch if our midfield just passes the ball sideways and the backwards all the flipping time.

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[Bedfordspurs]

Agree that they were. But if they are defensive that's what they should be doing. The amount of time that the Utd players had on the edge of the box is fully on the midfield.

Yep
They aren’t meant to be defensive
I don’t think conte wants them sitting there
It’s the exact opposite of how we have played 3-5-2. But if they don’t move out they fail
It’s why conte was going mad at Bentacur… his pass was poor and it meant a retreat to where his team mates where

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He has played it, but without success.

What Conte needs like I've said to you a million times is better more progressive passers and better in possession midfielders. He has always had this at his previous sides. He does not have it now. The WBs will never be able to fly up the pitch if our midfield just passes the ball sideways and the backwards all the flipping time.

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Your assuming the midfield wins the ball
United didn’t even need to pass well and and won without their passer in eriksen
You can’t win at this level with any formation if you dont work hard enough

 

[billyiddo]

Pretty much.

We can dress it up in many ways. Fundamentally it's the same thing.

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Better at organising a defence and getting a performance out of average players but essentially the same

 

[Bishop]

Your assuming the midfield wins the ball
United didn’t even need to pass well and and won without their passer in eriksen
You can’t win at this level with any formation if you dont work hard enough

United didn't need their specialist passer because they had the variety of abilities in midfield. A DM Casmiero who despite being a DM actually has pretty good forward passing, he's not a clogger. Fred who admittedly just runs about and makes himself a nuisance, a poor man's Kante if you will. And Fernandes who does have passing and vision and used it to cut us open multiple times tonight. It was his vertical passing that had Dier and Romero running back to goal constantly. He kept them on their toes, his presence alone kept them honest. They couldn't push up because they knew he could, would and did hit any space behind them accurately. We don't have that in our side unless it's Kane over 30 yards and every opposition manager knows that. There's no variety.

My complaint is never so simple as we don't have a progressive passer it's that this teams needs one. United had one and look at the massive flipping difference in performance and balance.

As I say all the time just look at Conte's previous teams even his DMs were typically better users of the ball than he has now. Our midfield and the actual team really are really poor users of the ball. Who can we say is really nice with the ball at their feet. Kulu definitely, Bentancur at times. Kane over longer distances but nothing short range. Romero can play a good flat pass and that's about it.

Far too many players who can't deal with a press at all, they panic and pass it sideways and far too many who just can't do anything useful unless they have acres of space and time.

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[billyiddo]

United didn't need their specialist passer because they had the variety of abilities in midfield. A DM Casmiero who despite being a DM actually has pretty good forward passing, he's not a clogger. Fred who admittedly just runs about and makes himself a nuisance, a poor man's Kante if you will. And Fernandes who does have passing and vision and used it to cut us open multiple times tonight. It was his vertical passing that had Dier and Romero running back to goal constantly. He kept them on their toes, his presence alone kept them honest. They couldn't push up because they knew he could, would and did hit any space behind them accurately. We don't have that in our side unless it's Kane over 30 yards and every opposition manager knows that. There's no variety.

My complaint is never so simple as we don't have a progressive passer it's that this teams needs one. United had one and look at the massive flipping difference in performance and balance.

As I say all the time just look at Conte's previous teams even his DMs were typically better users of the ball than he has now. Our midfield and the actual team really are really poor users of the ball. Who can we say is really nice with the ball at their feet. Kulu definitely, Bentancur at times. Kane over longer distances but nothing short range. Romero can play a good flat pass and that's about it.

Far too many players who can't deal with a press at all, they panic and pass it sideways and far too many who just can't do anything useful unless they have acres of space and time.

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We essentially have 3 Freds

Harsh on Bissouma at this stage due to limited time to assess his qualities but our midfield is lacking in qualities defensively and going forwards

 

[Bedfordspurs]

United didn't need their specialist passer because they had the variety of abilities in midfield. A DM Casmiero who despite being a DM actually has pretty good forward passing, he's not a clogger. Fred who admittedly just runs about and makes himself a nuisance, a poor man's Kante if you will. And Fernandes who does have passing and vision and used it to cut us open multiple times tonight. It was his vertical passing that had Dier and Romero running back to goal constantly. He kept them on their toes, his presence alone kept them honest. They couldn't push up because they knew he could, would and did hit any space behind them accurately. We don't have that in our side unless it's Kane over 30 yards and every opposition manager knows that. There's no variety.

My complaint is never so simple as we don't have a progressive passer it's that this teams needs one. United had one and look at the massive flipping difference in performance and balance.

As I say all the time just look at Conte's previous teams even his DMs were typically better users of the ball than he has now. Our midfield and the actual team really are really poor users of the ball. Who can we say is really nice with the ball at their feet. Kulu definitely, Bentancur at times. Kane over longer distances but nothing short range. Romero can play a good flat pass and that's about it.

Far too many players who can't deal with a press at all, they panic and pass it sideways and far too many who just can't do anything useful unless they have acres of space and time.

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Not gonna argue with any of that although I think Fred’s passing is better than it gets credit for
She that was first good game from penandes this season according to my united mate
We have him so much time and soace

 

[billyiddo]

Not gonna argue with any of that although I think Fred’s passing is better than it gets credit for
She that was first good game from penandes this season according to my united mate
We have him so much time and soace

Criminal given the amount of bodies we had back defending

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Criminal given the amount of bodies we had back defending

Yep
Horrendous
Never got close

 

[papaspur]

I'm not happy either but I think we need to come back to this tomorrow with better hindsight. To switch systems might be very disruptive at this point of the season. It could work but IMO, reverting back to our glory glory 4-2-3-1 80's-white-fairy-dust-fueled zoomies would not suit us with the players we have. As much as I loved those days, I feel like we've grown into the 3-4-3/5-3-2.
Being told not to worry because "we're 3rd in the table" after other mediocre performances was easy when we won, but on the other hand, just because we lost doesn't mean we need to panic. The truth is, it does seem to be the midfield that's let us down again. Could it be that the two starters are getting tired or are they not consistent enough (probably a mixture of both)? We know they can be good players but they do sometimes poop the bed during big matches (also speaking generally, not trying to single anyone out here). We have an anxiety when we are in possession, to not lose the ball so we play safe yet still manage to gift chances to the opposition via cheap giveaways. I'm almost positive this is psychological, the "body language" is not subtle at all so it's kind of a joke to even refer to it as such. Of course, it's difficult for us to make an assessment without seeing what happens in training so I don't want to speculate too much there.

Maybe we can try starting Skipp for one match instead of one of PEH/Bentancur/Bissouma? Our next match is Sunday, then another match against Sporting 1 week from today, and it doesn't stop until November 12th.

p.s. don't let pirate start another OMT, that's actually the real reason we lost.

 

[djp82]

The biggest concern is that when we have played anyone half decent we’ve looked second best.
Chelsea , Scum , United we looked miles off it. Yes all away games but United and Chelsea are not even that great. Even against West Ham we were pretty awful that night when they could not buy a point.

Best start to a league season and all that but it’s been a tough old slog 11 games in.

 

[glasgowspur]

The biggest concern is that when we have played anyone half decent we’ve looked second best.
Chelsea , Scum , United we looked miles off it. Yes all away games but United and Chelsea are not even that great. Even against West Ham we were pretty awful that night when they could not buy a point.

Best start to a league season and all that but it’s been a tough old slog 11 games in.

Its not the defeats or results, its the manner of the defeat or results.
Its not the bad football, its the not turning up.
We've even gone past the cliche media appearances of "we will learn from this," "we get up and keep fighting".
Remember the "we can't keep doing this" from i think it was dier, that was four fudging managers ago, and we are still doing it.

 

[djp82]

Its not the defeats or results, its the manner of the defeat or results.
Its not the bad football, its the not turning up.
We've even gone past the cliche media appearances of "we will learn from this," "we get up and keep fighting".
Remember the "we can't keep doing this" from i think it was dier, that was four fudging managers ago, and we are still doing it.

Absolutely. It’s same old same old.

It’s going to be a battle for the top four this season.

Intrigued to see how we get on against the Geordies Sunday that’s going to be a tough test. Need a big reaction.

 

[Daisuk]

It's a straw, but I'm happily clutching!

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