***** OMT TOTTENHAM VS CHELSKI *****

[spurspinter1]

Well without two brain dead challenges we’d have won so yes we did play okay against a good side.

Anyone who thinks Ange wants his players to make such fouls in the box has obviously lost the plot.

No way is Postecoglou going to throw Sarr and Bissouma under the bus. They will know. And we are already stretched without Bentancur.

Posters trying to tie Postecoglou to those two crazy challenges and pens is a bit pathetic.

Elsewhere Chelsea fans could say "Without Cucurella playing slip and slide we'd have won the game 4-1".

How is it helpful / even vaguely meaningful to edit out the parts of the game that went against you and keep everything else the same? An augmented reality that suits whatever the bias requires.

If Son had scored his one on one at 2-2 then blah blah blah. We'd have still found a way to lose it because Spurs, granted, but again it's all hypothetical..What isn't hypothetical is the table, and now the performances are matching where we are as well.

*I appreciate I have focused on one sentence of your post rather than holistically, I agree that Ange can't be blamed for two silly challenge in the box, although it's ingrained in the culture to be that stupid.

 

[SteveAWOL]

With what ifs and maybes, we'd win the league every year. Unfortunately, Postecoglou's system does require a lot of intensity, which in turns leads to a lot of injuries and tackles like we've seen yesterday (at least, that's my opinion): when you're on full throttle for the best part of the game, your judgement's often clouded. That's why it's so difficult to score after a 40-yard solo run, for instance.

One possible explanation to his current success compared to other tenures (but I have neither the time nor the inclination to check it out in details) would be that in lesser/less competitive leagues, missing a player or five isn't as damaging as the gap between first team players and subs isn't as big as it is in the Premier League.

Another anlysis I'd be curious to read would a comparison between Postecoglou and Bielsa, who's supposed to be benchmark for that kind of systems.

For what it’s worth, this feature on his time at Celtic seems pertinent…

His record in European competition with Celtic wasn’t great at all, and their results have been, for many, a stick to beat him with. In his first season, Celtic were knocked out of the Champions League in the qualifiers, then failed to get out of their Europa League group, before being beaten by Bodø/Glimt in a Europa Conference League knockout playoff. The following season, they made it to the Champions League group stage but picked up only two points from their six games. There were promising performances but only four goals scored and 15 conceded. The commonly held view was that Postecoglou stuck too steadfastly to his philosophy, even when it appeared not to be working.

… Postecoglou’s side had the fifth-worst defensive record in the group stages, conceding 15 goals. Yet they only conceded chances worth 11.7 xG – a difference of 3.3, which was also one of the biggest discrepancies of all teams involved. In the Champions League, you come up against Champions League-quality goalkeepers, and world-class finishers, so underperformance might be expected for a team that is used to facing Ross County and St Mirren (no offence intended to those teams).

Ange Ball Explained: How Postecoglou Could Reinvigorate Spurs

We take a look at the numbers behind Ange Postecoglou's time at Celtic, and reveal why he could be the man to lift the mood at Tottenham

theanalyst.com

 

[thfcsteff]

Having Sarr continually press alongside Kulu when 2-0, get played around and then have Bissouma completely outnumbered. Happened repeatedly and there is no need for it when 2-0 and in control. We could have sat in slightly Biis and Sarr in a double pivot for 10-15 mins after our goal and just picked them off. Solanke was murdering their defenders and Son and Johnson were lively. We showed absolutely no in game control which is so so poor, but what the manager wants.

They started breaking though in waves because they were playing round our press, drop it off for a period and make them beat you. You're winning the game, and looking dangerous every time you go forward, manage the situation.

Fair point. I think we lack experience on the field in central areas at these moments. Maddison does sometimes do it, slows the game, takes fouls. I think I'd just like a bit more in-game nous/rhythm breaking, and would be fine with us 'taking contact' more often and perhaps being a little sharper in those 'arts' to disrupt the flow of others.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

When people like to write and create stories about what could have and would have happened it’s worth remembering we went two up, hit the bar and their players should she been sent off before they for their got their goal IIRC
And yep their player made a mistake for two goals just as Sarr and Pape did
It happens I guess.. players make mistakes
Cucurella even went and got new boots… same as the one she was wearing but in a different colour
I guess we could have hoped they wouldn’t work

 

[Sandman]

we are the joint 2nd highest scorers in the league. Yet we have now lost more games than we have won. 7 in 15 is disastrous.
We have Xmas coming with a LOT of games. Some big games as well.
I dont want ange Sacked. But I think its coming.

 

[90291Spur]

Fair point. I think we lack experience on the field in central areas at these moments. Maddison does sometimes do it, slows the game, takes fouls. I think I'd just like a bit more in-game nous/rhythm breaking, and would be fine with us 'taking contact' more often and perhaps being a little sharper in those 'arts' to disrupt the flow of others.

There is also an entire coaching staff who should be able to see this problem - and the Cheat$ki game wasn't the first instance of this - and have a plan. And take time at the luxurious surroundings of Hostpur Way to teach this. And then implement it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There is also an entire coaching staff who should be able to see this problem - and the Cheat$ki game wasn't the first instance of this - and have a plan. And take time at the luxurious surroundings of Hostpur Way to teach this. And then implement it.

What time is that?
Friday or Saturday?
I’m guessing one day is used for recovery and seeing who is still fit
Now Chelsea leave behind the core of their team in Europe and practice and train…
Nice novelty if you have that many players
Maybe that’s the way ahead

 

[braineclipse]

Elsewhere Chelsea fans could say "Without Cucurella playing slip and slide we'd have won the game 4-1".

How is it helpful / even vaguely meaningful to edit out the parts of the game that went against you and keep everything else the same? An augmented reality that suits whatever the bias requires.

If Son had scored his one on one at 2-2 then blah blah blah. We'd have still found a way to lose it because Spurs, granted, but again it's all hypothetical..What isn't hypothetical is the table, and now the performances are matching where we are as well.

*I appreciate I have focused on one sentence of your post rather than holistically, I agree that Ange can't be blamed for two silly challenge in the box, although it's ingrained in the culture to be that stupid.

I think the point is that it's a game that could have gone differently.

I think overall we were second best, but it wasn't a massive amount in it.

Uo against an in form team, able to rotate, a team that looks to be one of the closer teams to the top of the table come the end of the season. While we have injury issues and fatigue in the squad.

That's not a bad performance. Still leaves a lot to be desired for sure, but it's not bad imo.

 

[We are Tottenham]

I hear you brother and I'm not that far behind you in age. I remember when I started supporting Spurs (in around 69/70) we won Cups regularly and had a bit of glory. We missed the boat at the start of the PL and have never really recovered. All of the other "Big 6" clubs seem to be a better draw and option for players. Now it's £90 a ticket and no hope. Nice Stadium though.

thanks broth..lol..
Mackay was the best player I ever saw in a Spurs shirt!..I remember Greaves said he was as well.

3 broken legs ...but the thing I remember most about him was his skill with the ball! He was a leader and loved football through and through.

Anyway memories.
One thing you can say about our Tottenham that is a plus, we have had more great football entertainers than any other club in the
English League.

But I don't understand all these substitutes! They have ruined the game.
I mean it's crazy. Rich clubs buying up all the best players World wide and even putting them out on loan,Crazy how can they get away with it. Us as well !
Then you have handfull's of players that are not even fudging playing and there they all are sitting along the bench doing sweet fudge all [not a bad job A]..and then..and then and then and then lol.. sometimes.not allways lol. they come on as subs and on top of that
they are all fudging millionaires and we are the mugs falling for this modern day football pandemic.
Question. How far will this continue into the future. You sure are a lucky guy if you are a professional footballer today
[slight understatement]
I could go on...

 

[spurspinter1]

I think the point is that it's a game that could have gone differently.

I think overall we were second best, but it wasn't a massive amount in it.

Uo against an in form team, able to rotate, a team that looks to be one of the closer teams to the top of the table come the end of the season. While we have injury issues and fatigue in the squad.

That's not a bad performance. Still leaves a lot to be desired for sure, but it's not bad imo.

I hope I'm not coming off too contrarion but any game could go differently. We can use any number of modal verbs to explain away the situation but reality is the best judge. And we're not the only club with injuries and fatigue (you haven't said that we are but some people seem to think we are), it's what happens when you play football.

They let us back in with the Son goal having fallen asleep thinking they'd coast to the win amd had copious amounts of potential 4 on 3 situations they could have profited from. It's not only top teams we give those away to, it's standard procedure.

Eh it's subjective, I'm not so sure it was good like Ange said, I'm leaning more towards quite bad than anything else. It says something when Paul fudging Merson can turn into prometheus at half time, the team must have been desperate to prove him right I guess.

 

[Jurgen the German]

When people like to write and create stories about what could have and would have happened it’s worth remembering we went two up, hit the bar and their players should she been sent off before they for their got their goal IIRC
And yep their player made a mistake for two goals just as Sarr and Pape did
It happens I guess.. players make mistakes
Cucurella even went and got new boots… same as the one she was wearing but in a different colour
I guess we could have hoped they wouldn’t work

Kulu could have been sent off on another day too just for balance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Kulu could have been sent off on another day too just for balance.

Yep
He should have
But Caicido was first and not even subjective
Send him off as per the rules and the games possibly different … we don’t know
Kulus was malicious and intentional imo
Not sure how he got away with that

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think the point is that it's a game that could have gone differently.

I think overall we were second best, but it wasn't a massive amount in it.

Uo against an in form team, able to rotate, a team that looks to be one of the closer teams to the top of the table come the end of the season. While we have injury issues and fatigue in the squad.

That's not a bad performance. Still leaves a lot to be desired for sure, but it's not bad imo.

No offence but I think sometimes we set the bar way too low on here. Did you see Carragher’s comments after the game? He said he can’t ever imagine playing for Liverpool and conceding 4 goals in a game and the manager coming out to do an interview and saying they played well as Ange did last night. Some of the defending and in-game management was farcical. Would it kill Ange to be more pragmatic in games? Not even asking for it all the time, just sometimes, for like 20-30 minutes. It’s like he’s playing the way Pep did at Barca and refusing to alter his style but with the talent of Alaves.

 

[90291Spur]

What time is that?
Friday or Saturday?
I’m guessing one day is used for recovery and seeing who is still fit
Now Chelsea leave behind the core of their team in Europe and practice and train…
Nice novelty if you have that many players
Maybe that’s the way ahead

That time would be from the moment Ange took up the role to now. Could have been last summer after our form fell off a cliff And it isn't a complex concept. It's not like learning an ancient dead language or something.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That time would be from the moment Ange took up the role to now. Could have been last summer after our form fell off a cliff And it isn't a complex concept. It's not like learning an ancient dead language or something.

You did talk about Chelsea specifically though didn’t you?
It’s so simple that teams do it every game and never lose

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No offence but I think sometimes we set the bar way too low on here. Did you see Carragher’s comments after the game? He said he can’t ever imagine playing for Liverpool and conceding 4 goals in a game and the manager coming out to do an interview and saying they played well as Ange did last night. Some of the defending and in-game management was farcical. Would it kill Ange to be more pragmatic in games? Not even asking for it all the time, just sometimes, for like 20-30 minutes. It’s like he’s playing the way Pep did at Barca and refusing to alter his style but with the talent of Alaves.

I reckon there are interviews out there where that happened at Liverpool

 

[Jurgen the German]

I reckon there are interviews out there where that happened at Liverpool

Maybe there is somewhere in their 100+ year history but the point he was making was Liverpool have different standards to us and wouldn’t be happy conceding 4 goals. The mentality comes from the top and goes all the way down through the club to the players and the fans.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Maybe there is somewhere in their 100+ year history but the point he was making was Liverpool have different standards to us and wouldn’t be happy conceding 4 goals. The mentality comes from the top and goes all the way down through the club to the players and the fans.

The standard gets set and it stays
The fans expect it
It’s a different mentality

 

[thfcsteff]

There is also an entire coaching staff who should be able to see this problem - and the Cheat$ki game wasn't the first instance of this - and have a plan. And take time at the luxurious surroundings of Hostpur Way to teach this. And then implement it.

That and, as Dave has said, the fitness team, who are clearly failing.

 

[90291Spur]

You did talk about Chelsea specifically though didn’t you?
It’s so simple that teams do it every game and never lose

This is what I said: There is also an entire coaching staff who should be able to see this problem - and the Cheat$ki game wasn't the first instance of this - and have a plan. And take time at the luxurious surroundings of Hostpur Way to teach this. And then implement it.

And teams don't 'never lose' when they do this, but it can be viewed as a way of adjusting to game state to increase the chances of winning.