***** OMT TOTTENHAM VS CHELSKI *****

[Baleforce]

We could have swapped both FB’s on Sunday too.

 

[spurspinter1]

Agree. Whilst I support Ange we shouldn't be making too many allowances for some consistent misgivings. However, I do find it interesting that when we win we tend to win well and against the big clubs (or any team for that matter) when we do lose it is by the odd goal - hence we still have a very good goal difference. That tells me there are some fine margins whether it be personnel upgrades/returns from injury or little tactical tweaks that really would have us on a good path. But work to be done and we can't ignore or make too many excuses for what has happened.....

There's an interesting tagline for the gent's pod (which I haven't listened to yet), reasons not excuses. I'm not all too sure on the difference but it's hard to separate it from general bias - when we win we're great and deserve it and it's bad luck when we lose.

Apparently Cucurella fell over because we pressured him so we earned those opportunities (can't have been anything to do with the footwear that once changed immediately stopped him ice skating, it was the cunning masterplan of standing nearby people causing them to fall over through sheer terror).

At the start when we weren't getting results but the performances weren't too bad it was right to focus on that, now it seems borderline delusion. The goal difference is startling, but if anything shows we can score but can't control games. But let's give the team another 10 games, it's not fair to offer anything other than whataboutery and blind optimism until then.

 

[SteveAWOL]

That’s the joys of having no one injured (or very few) and changing your team every game because of that

Spence and Reguilon clearly out of favour but Archie Gray was PotM last time he faced Chelsea, albeit he played CM in that game, so it's not as if our squad is completely threadbare despite the injuries.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1762999121856659736

 

[SpurMeUp]

I don't know how to make it clearer and we're already at father Mcdougal with sheep that are near, and sheep that are far away.

"If only Bentancur wasn't suspended", well he was. So we're back to the two categories of things that happened, and things that didn't, you can call it deep in a mocking way but it's better if you can display that you have grasped the concept. My interjection was about pointless hypotheticals, I even said it wasn't about your post holistically as i agreed with the gist of it, sorry mate i can't spell it out any simpler.

What is the point of retrospective analysis? Or therapy? Or thinking at all?

 

[spurspinter1]

What is the point of retrospective analysis? Or therapy? Or thinking at all?

Looks like you've responded to the wrong post / in the wrong thread because it's miles off what I have said.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Spence and Reguilon clearly out of favour but Archie Gray was PotM last time he faced Chelsea, albeit he played CM in that game, so it's not as if our squad is completely threadbare despite the injuries.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1762999121856659736

But we had 9 players injured or suspended at that point of the game
So not exactly stacked with options

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There's an interesting tagline for the gent's pod (which I haven't listened to yet), reasons not excuses. I'm not all too sure on the difference but it's hard to separate it from general bias - when we win we're great and deserve it and it's bad luck when we lose.

Apparently Cucurella fell over because we pressured him so we earned those opportunities (can't have been anything to do with the footwear that once changed immediately stopped him ice skating, it was the cunning masterplan of standing nearby people causing them to fall over through sheer terror).

At the start when we weren't getting results but the performances weren't too bad it was right to focus on that, now it seems borderline delusion. The goal difference is startling, but if anything shows we can score but can't control games. But let's give the team another 10 games, it's not fair to offer anything other than whataboutery and blind optimism until then.

He changed to the same boots
Just a different colour
MOTD 2 had a thing about saying that was him blaming others
The only variable yesterday that should have happens was the clear red card on Caicido before the Kulu one or their goals .. bottle job form the ref
The rest are mistakes or port execution

 

[spurspinter1]

He changed to the same boots
Just a different colour
MOTD 2 had a thing about saying that was him blaming others
The only variable yesterday that should have happens was the clear red card on Caicido before the Kulu one or their goals .. bottle job form the ref
The rest are mistakes or port execution

That's amazing that you have the specifications on the studs in both pairs of boots, some superb insider information.

The change in colour must have been what made the difference then, and there was me thinking the kit man would have multiple versions of the same boots with different sized / types of studs that may be more suitable for different environments, what a mug.

And Kulu could have easily been given a red too. Although as I've said I was surprised at Caicedos because we're used to that being a red ie Romero's follow through after a clearance

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Idk if you’ve ever interviewed someone for a job. But all we are talking about is someone’s credentials. How good will they be as a Manager. Sure it’s a job in the public eye. But it’s still just a job. How do you go about rating an individual? How well are they equipped to deliver in the role?

Would you say which manager you think we played the ball better under?

I think in the future clubs will just have more players. Because the demands on sides are so high. And demand from fans and media for games is too. The stakes are so high that a high pressing energetic game will be the way to play.

Of course Ange isn’t the only person. But we’re 18months in. You want to wait another 18 months to let a new manager start to bed in his team and ideas; then cut him short before they’ve realised their vision? Rinse and repeat.

Why not? He’s worked his way up on merit alone. Why wouldn’t you look at his career and cv?

You really think appointing a football manager works the same way as appointing a desk clerk? I'm not sure but, then again, I've never been part of such a process. I'd object that if the only thing they looked at where CVs, it would be fairly easy to move from a relative unknown club to a European giant. That rarely seems to be the case.

As for the other managers who got us to play well, I'd say we got some sterling stuff under Mourinho, if you're into counter-attacking football, and at some point under Pochettino we were arguably the best team in the country. That doesn't take anything away from Postecoglou's team, mind you, but if you're looking at the bigger picture and not just every other game, then I'd say Pochettino's was better.

Maybe clubs will have more players, maybe they won't. It will depend on a lot of things, one of them being European economy as a whole. With the rising cost of energy, we're on the brink of a massive collapse with Germany taking everybody down with them. Under the current FFP rules, you'd have to pay your players a lot less anyway if you want a bigger squad. For now, it's wishful thinking at best. Even if that were to happen, I'm not sure we could afford losing that many first team players (which was my original point).

You're stating as a fact that it will take the next man 18 months to get anything out of this squad. If anything, it worked the other way round with Conte, for instance: early results (and some performances) were much better than what was to come. Some managers hit the ground running, like Redknapp did (if I remember correctly).

 

[SpurMeUp]

You really think appointing a football manager works the same way as appointing a desk clerk?

A core manager in an organisation rather than a desk clark. But yes, you assess an individual and suitability considering a broad range of variables.

I'm not sure but, then again, I've never been part of such a process. I'd object that if the only thing they looked at where CVs, it would be fairly easy to move from a relative unknown club to a European giant. That rarely seems to be the case.

As for the other managers who got us to play well, I'd say we got some sterling stuff under Mourinho, if you're into counter-attacking football,

I don’t think we passed the ball all that well under him but there was an improvement (I much was the question, after you asked what I liked about the Postecoglou setup).

and at some point under Pochettino we were arguably the best team in the country. That doesn't take anything away from Postecoglou's team, mind you, but if you're looking at the bigger picture and not just every other game, then I'd say Pochettino's was better.

Our passing wasn’t great. Partly the players available - Sissiko - and partly in the manager who sets the drills.

Maybe clubs will have more players, maybe they won't. It will depend on a lot of things, one of them being European economy as a whole. With the rising cost of energy, we're on the brink of a massive collapse with Germany taking everybody down with them. Under the current FFP rules, you'd have to pay your players a lot less anyway if you want a bigger squad. For now, it's wishful thinking at best. Even if that were to happen, I'm not sure we could afford losing that many first team players (which was my original point).

Football sits outside these real life issues (sadly). It’s mega millions and billlions. Chelsea showing it can be done and reaping the rewards.

You're stating as a fact that it will take the next man 18 months to get anything out of this squad. If anything, it worked the other way round with Conte, for instance: early results (and some performances) were much better than what was to come. Some managers hit the ground running, like Redknapp did (if I remember correctly).

Similar with Ange. There is a new manger bounce. Then a much slower period of incremental improvement. Development in this phase takes time.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's amazing that you have the specifications on the studs in both pairs of boots, some superb insider information.

The change in colour must have been what made the difference then, and there was me thinking the kit man would have multiple versions of the same boots with different sized / types of studs that may be more suitable for different environments, what a mug.

And Kulu could have easily been given a red too. Although as I've said I was surprised at Caicedos because we're used to that being a red ie Romero's follow through after a clearance

Not my info
MOTD highlighted it
Was boots and same studs… different colour
And again, just to reassure you it’s not my opinion, it was the ex pros on there saying that it’s him highlighting the boots are wrong not expecting anyone to notice

And fully agree Kulus was a red. Said that at the time. It was malicious in my opinion

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Football sits outside these real life issues (sadly). It’s mega millions and billlions. Chelsea showing it can be done and reaping the rewards.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the rest but if you take a look at what's happening at the moment in France, you may change your mind on this particular question. Real Madrid would have been out of business twice without direct intervention from the Spanish royal family and most clubs at this point have to rely heavily on transfer income to make their debt sustainable. That doesn't mean it will happen or it will happen anytime soon but the second the bubble burst, the whole thing will come crashing down like a house of cards.

The only reason it's not happening everywhere else is because French regulations are actually the strictest in Europe. It's in everybody's interest to keep that from happening, if only to continue to suck the fans dry, but a massive collapse of the football economy is anything but unrealistic, in my opinion.

 

[SpurMeUp]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the rest but if you take a look at what's happening at the moment in France, you may change your mind on this particular question. Real Madrid would have been out of business twice without direct intervention from the Spanish royal family and most clubs at this point have to rely heavily on transfer income to make their debt sustainable. That doesn't mean it will happen or it will happen anytime soon but the second the bubble burst, the whole thing will come crashing down like a house of cards.

The only reason it's not happening everywhere else is because French regulations are actually the strictest in Europe. It's in everybody's interest to keep that from happening, if only to continue to suck the fans dry, but a massive collapse of the football economy is anything but unrealistic, in my opinion.

Clubs overspending is nothing new. Spurs one of the few who are more prudent, we are better placed for your apocalyptic scenario. But the fundamentals are simple: there is huge global demand to consumer the PL. When there is so much interest and revenue, there will be ways to make (and lose) money. Whether you break even as a club on operations (wages vs tickets and TV money), but then you generate huge sponsorship contracts which creates some headroom, there are all sorts of way to monetize the huge audiences.

In short, if 1-2 billion people watch the premier league each week, there will always be large sums of money sloshing around. It is the most watched league in the world. That is why US investors are getting involved. Not because they have a secret love of soccer!

 

[Kompakted]

It's a squad that will be well covered when/if Lankshear, Moore, Bergvall, Gray and Spence (I'm not counting Reguilon, think he's gone) develop to a point that they're trusted by Ange to start PL games with some regularity.

That will take some time, if it happens. For some of them it may happen this season, I certainly hope so.

Injuries will happen, I think we've been a bit unlucky with them.

If Lankshear is ready for first team football for example, he is gone (loan or permanent) unless Richarlison or Solanke goes. Similarly, Gray and Bergvall and Moore are not included in the two players for each position, where the only exceptions are CM (where Maddison/Kulu are rotated into where they're not playing further forward and CB (where Davies deputies as well as for LB). The squad isn't an excuse for being in our current position. We have more depth than most of the teams currently above and around us.

 

[Finney Is Back]

No it's not the epicenter of football but Asia is a huge market I would suggest if he was heading up the city groups business interests in Asia he knows what he is doing.

I don't know if he is good on the business side of football he could be completely crap at his job. Unless you know something I don't you don't know if he is any good at his job either

If I'm honest I couldn't tell you how good any of our board members are they could all be yes men/women & all have to bow down to Daniel

If he was only heading up City's operations in Asia then I'd argue that he is well down the pecking order in terms of people doing big jobs in football.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If Lankshear is ready for first team football for example, he is gone (loan or permanent) unless Richarlison or Solanke goes. Similarly, Gray and Bergvall and Moore are not included in the two players for each position, where the only exceptions are CM (where Maddison/Kulu are rotated into where they're not playing further forward and CB (where Davies deputies as well as for LB). The squad isn't an excuse for being in our current position. We have more depth than most of the teams currently above and around us.

The teams that aren't playing in European competition you mean?.... I would bloodywell hope so!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The teams that aren't playing in European competition you mean?.... I would bloodywell hope so!

We have nowhere near the depth

 

[Kompakted]

We have nowhere near the depth

Nowhere near the depth to do what exactly? Challenge for the title? Top 4? Maybe you're right. I'm talking about being able to win more games than we lose as a first step - walk before we can run and all that. We have pretty much 2 first team experienced players for every position. You can only register so many players over the age of 21 and non home grown and club trained in Europe.

You guys are saying Ange doesn't have the squad to be able to better than two points against Leicester, Palace, Ipswich, Fulham, Bournemouth. Just for example.

I keep repeating this, we are on course, unless something drastically changes, for our lowest league finish and points total in probably a quarter of a century. So all these issues with ENIC hamstringing managers with "imperfect" squads and whatever else away from the coaching and management you want to throw into the mix, there's a clear "everyone else has done better than this guy with similar issues" factor in my mind.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nowhere near the depth to do what exactly? Challenge for the title? Top 4? Maybe you're right. I'm talking about being able to win more games than we lose as a first step - walk before we can run and all that. We have pretty much 2 first team experienced players for every position. You can only register so many players over the age of 21 and non home grown and club trained in Europe.

You guys are saying Ange doesn't have the squad to be able to better than two points against Leicester, Palace, Ipswich, Fulham, Bournemouth. Just for example.

I keep repeating this, we are on course, unless something drastically changes, for our lowest league finish and points total in probably a quarter of a century. So all these issues with ENIC hamstringing managers with "imperfect" squads and whatever else away from the coaching and management you want to throw into the mix, there's a clear "everyone else has done better than this guy with similar issues" factor in my mind.

He'd have the squad to beat and finish above all of those teams if we were not playing in the Europa league which is extremely draining. I still think we'll finish above them all even with our extra games.

We have reduced both the size and experience level of our squad compared to the one we registered last season (See @Bedfordspurs' post from yesterday) that is despite having an additional difficult competition to play lots of games in this season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nowhere near the depth to do what exactly? Challenge for the title? Top 4? Maybe you're right. I'm talking about being able to win more games than we lose as a first step - walk before we can run and all that. We have pretty much 2 first team experienced players for every position. You can only register so many players over the age of 21 and non home grown and club trained in Europe.

You guys are saying Ange doesn't have the squad to be able to better than two points against Leicester, Palace, Ipswich, Fulham, Bournemouth. Just for example.

I keep repeating this, we are on course, unless something drastically changes, for our lowest league finish and points total in probably a quarter of a century. So all these issues with ENIC hamstringing managers with "imperfect" squads and whatever else away from the coaching and management you want to throw into the mix, there's a clear "everyone else has done better than this guy with similar issues" factor in my mind.

If the squad stayed fit I would be able to agree
But it would never stay fit with the games and alleys we have
We’re about 3 experienced heads light and a couple more youth squad options imo