***** OMT TOTTENHAM VS CHELSKI *****

[Glenda's Legs]

Munn’s calibre?!?

'Level' then.
Either way I don't see Ange getting sacked without Munn and Lange having a key say in the decision.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Genuine question
What was wrong with the set up yesterday in peoples views?
Contextually you have to consider who were playing (most in form team in the country) who rotated out 7 players (according to the BBC) from their game a day earlier than ours midweek
They are fresh and pretty much injury free with the first team playing (not sure Reece James will ever get fit)
And we scored 2 goals quickly
The reason they got their goal was arguably (sure this is a debate) the change we made to the defence 4 mins earlier with Romero going off
The other openly goal was a good bit of dribbling from Palmer who was shorting and got a lucky deflection in the way it landed right in front of their player who now has 3 in 3 games
The pens were stupid… not tactical
And one of them was won by a player who should have been off the pitch
We kissed better chances than they did
Despite them dominating possession

 

[Baleforce]

Genuine question
What was wrong with the set up yesterday in peoples views?
Contextually you have to consider who were playing (most in form team in the country) who rotated out 7 players (according to the BBC) from their game a day earlier than ours midweek
They are fresh and pretty much injury free with the first team playing (not sure Reece James will ever get fit)
And we scored 2 goals quickly
The reason they got their goal was arguably (sure this is a debate) the change we made to the defence 4 mins earlier with Romero going off
The other openly goal was a good bit of dribbling from Palmer who was shorting and got a lucky deflection in the way it landed right in front of their player who now has 3 in 3 games
The pens were stupid… not tactical
And one of them was won by a player who should have been off the pitch
We kissed better chances than they did
Despite them dominating possession

Too high a line.

Not enough players getting back to defend.

Trying to play out too often rather than just clearing it.

Not taking opportunities to waste time when we had a lead.

Not doing anything to disrupt Chelsea’s flow when they were all over us at the start of the second half.

 

[fernadez]

Genuine question
What was wrong with the set up yesterday in peoples views?
Contextually you have to consider who were playing (most in form team in the country) who rotated out 7 players (according to the BBC) from their game a day earlier than ours midweek
They are fresh and pretty much injury free with the first team playing (not sure Reece James will ever get fit)
And we scored 2 goals quickly
The reason they got their goal was arguably (sure this is a debate) the change we made to the defence 4 mins earlier with Romero going off
The other openly goal was a good bit of dribbling from Palmer who was shorting and got a lucky deflection in the way it landed right in front of their player who now has 3 in 3 games
The pens were stupid… not tactical
And one of them was won by a player who should have been off the pitch
We kissed better chances than they did
Despite them dominating possession

Having Sarr continually press alongside Kulu when 2-0, get played around and then have Bissouma completely outnumbered. Happened repeatedly and there is no need for it when 2-0 and in control. We could have sat in slightly Biis and Sarr in a double pivot for 10-15 mins after our goal and just picked them off. Solanke was murdering their defenders and Son and Johnson were lively. We showed absolutely no in game control which is so so poor, but what the manager wants.

They started breaking though in waves because they were playing round our press, drop it off for a period and make them beat you. You're winning the game, and looking dangerous every time you go forward, manage the situation.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Genuine question
What was wrong with the set up yesterday in peoples views?
Contextually you have to consider who were playing (most in form team in the country) who rotated out 7 players (according to the BBC) from their game a day earlier than ours midweek
They are fresh and pretty much injury free with the first team playing (not sure Reece James will ever get fit)
And we scored 2 goals quickly
The reason they got their goal was arguably (sure this is a debate) the change we made to the defence 4 mins earlier with Romero going off
The other openly goal was a good bit of dribbling from Palmer who was shorting and got a lucky deflection in the way it landed right in front of their player who now has 3 in 3 games
The pens were stupid… not tactical
And one of them was won by a player who should have been off the pitch
We kissed better chances than they did
Despite them dominating possession

Take a look at how much space they routinely got between our defence and midfield. There was one from Palmer that I remember clearly where he ran about 15 yards in acres of space at our defence. There were others too - Sky referenced it post-match. The defence were left very exposed.

We got caught 3 v 3 a few times.

Look at the third goal. It's Porro having to worry about 3 different Chelsea players. Again, that's a repeated scenario week after week. We get overloaded on the back post every game.

When we got 2 up, rather fortuitously, we should have boxed a bit more clever and made life harder for them.

 

[braineclipse]

And being at least decent is what we are surprised with!! Man our expectations have really taken a hit!!
.I agree with you by the way, cos I thought we would do naff all

I think lowered expectations at a time of injury problems combined with fixture congestion and fatigue in the squad is fine.

 

[braineclipse]

I see a lot of posts saying "it takes time to play this way", yet I think back to any manager that has been a success and it was blatantly obvious they were going to make a big difference straight away. Redknapp came in after a mess, imposed a style of playing straight away and with a few additions we finished 4th the next season qualifying for the CL for the first time in our history.

Poch came in after a mess again, 5th first season, 2nd the next having taken about a season to implement "dominate and win".

With these "give him time" posters I'd ask, "time to do what?" Where are we going with this? Is there a team that is successful that plays the way we do? The best comparison I can make is Saudi Sportswashing Machine under Keegan in the 90s....

Time to assemble and develop a squad that can deal with this number of injuries/players missing.

Time to see if our excellent best can become a more consistent thing. Which probably won't happen with this number of important players missing and other squad players also missing.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Genuine question
What was wrong with the set up yesterday in peoples views?
Contextually you have to consider who were playing (most in form team in the country) who rotated out 7 players (according to the BBC) from their game a day earlier than ours midweek
They are fresh and pretty much injury free with the first team playing (not sure Reece James will ever get fit)
And we scored 2 goals quickly
The reason they got their goal was arguably (sure this is a debate) the change we made to the defence 4 mins earlier with Romero going off
The other openly goal was a good bit of dribbling from Palmer who was shorting and got a lucky deflection in the way it landed right in front of their player who now has 3 in 3 games
The pens were stupid… not tactical
And one of them was won by a player who should have been off the pitch
We kissed better chances than they did
Despite them dominating possession

But its all Ange's fault. No one thought we'd win. And whilst we didn't, imo we were unlucky not to win ourselves. Hence the huge frustration that we all feel: we shoudl have won that. Bar two madding pens, where there was little danger, we would have won.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Too high a line.

Not enough players getting back to defend.

Trying to play out too often rather than just clearing it.

Not taking opportunities to waste time when we had a lead.

Not doing anything to disrupt Chelsea’s flow when they were all over us at the start of the second half.

The line wasn’t high
We spent a lot of time descending
Hence why they had so few good quality chances outside of the penalty’s
Agree about not disrupting the momentum second half

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Take a look at how much space they routinely got between our defence and midfield. There was one from Palmer that I remember clearly where he ran about 15 yards in acres of space at our defence. There were others too - Sky referenced it post-match. The defence were left very exposed.

We got caught 3 v 3 a few times.

Look at the third goal. It's Porro having to worry about 3 different Chelsea players. Again, that's a repeated scenario week after week. We get overloaded on the back post every game.

When we got 2 up, rather fortuitously, we should have boxed a bit more clever and made life harder for them.

The third goal also got a massively lucky deflection
Palmer was shooting
And yeah it was 3 vs 3

What was tortuous? Their player slipping over? He was under pressure too
Don’t forget bias slipped at least twice in the first half
When raggy doll went to change his boots he actually had ones with the same studs. Motd2 even made a thing about it
So fortune… partly, but pressure is what made him panic as much

 

[SpurMeUp]

I see a lot of posts saying "it takes time to play this way", yet I think back to any manager that has been a success and it was blatantly obvious they were going to make a big difference straight away. Redknapp came in after a mess, imposed a style of playing straight away and with a few additions we finished 4th the next season qualifying for the CL for the first time in our history.

Poch came in after a mess again, 5th first season, 2nd the next having taken about a season to implement "dominate and win".

With these "give him time" posters I'd ask, "time to do what?" Where are we going with this? Is there a team that is successful that plays the way we do? The best comparison I can make is Saudi Sportswashing Machine under Keegan in the 90s....

Emirates Marketing Project.

And when the new manager hasn't delivered top 4 in 18months, do you swing the axe again?

Top teams are never built overnight. It is incremental development that delivers success.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But its all Ange's fault. No one thought we win. And whilst we didn't, imo we were unlucky not to win ourselves. Hence the huge frustration that we all feel: we shoudl have won that. Bar two madding pens, where there was little danger, we would have won.

I don’t think they created much, on reflection
The stats back that up too
But your never gonna convince fans that we’re not always open
We don’t always concede from set pieces
We don’t always play a high lune
Ange doesn’t try new things
People have their mind made up but they had it made up a year ago
Said it before, said it yesterday in the platform… this is the pain in painful rebuild
What Ange needs form the players is the right ability… availability
When you play a team who can make wholesale changes every game because everyone is fit you are gonna have a challenge regardless of their quality. And they have some quality

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Time to assemble and develop a squad that can deal with this number of injuries/players missing.

Time to see if our excellent best can become a more consistent thing. Which probably won't happen with this number of important players missing and other squad players also missing.

And that takes time
It takes a plan
It takes conviction
No fans like that though
And that’s part of the pain

 

[SpurMeUp]

I don’t think they created much, on reflection
The stats back that up too
But your never gonna convince fans that we’re not always open
We don’t always concede from set pieces
We don’t always play a high lune
Ange doesn’t try new things
People have their mind made up but they had it made up a year ago
Said it before, said it yesterday in the platform… this is the pain in painful rebuild
What Ange needs form the players is the right ability… availability
When you play a team who can make wholesale changes every game because everyone is fit you are gonna have a challenge regardless of their quality. And they have some quality

We do push things to the limit. We take risks. But the outcomes are not normally as bad as fans make out. You see, I want us to push the limits. If we can play like this, and develop a winning advantage, by doing things others don't. I am all for it.

The fact remains, that bar two tragic (and stupid) pens where there wasn't a shot on for the attacker, we'd have won. Furthermore, we had ample opportunities to put the game to bed scoring a third much earlier in the game.

It is unfortunately the story of our season so far in the league. We're not quite clicking in most games. Not smashing that final goal, and making life hard for ourselves. Or gifting stupid goals. Yet I see the logic. We were in the mix to comfortably win that game. That is good enough for me, with the depleted squad we have.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We do push things to the limit. We take risks. But the outcomes are not normally as bad as fans make out. You see, I want us to push the limits. If we can play like this, and develop a winning advantage, by doing things others don't. I am all for it.

The fact remains, that bar two tragic (and stupid) pens where there wasn't a shot on for the attacker, we'd have won. Furthermore, we had ample opportunities to put the game to bed scoring a third much earlier in the game.

It is unfortunately the story of our season so far in the league. We're not quite clicking in most games. Not smashing that final goal, and making life hard for ourselves. Or gifting stupid goals. Yet I see the logic. We were in the mix to comfortably win that game. That is good enough for me, with the depleted squad we have.

Good enough is never enough though for most fans

I don’t know if Ange is the answer but I do believe sacking of the plan after 18 months is mental

 

[DeanoAustin]

Good enough is never enough though for most fans

I don’t know if Ange is the answer but I do believe sacking of the plan after 18 months is mental

I think we've got to see this through to end of season minimum. And I'm saying that knowing the next few weeks will probably be grim. Woolwich stood by Arteta through some ropey results and finishes, Pep had a difficult first year given their resources, Klopp had a tough time too. Even last year, Chelsea stuck with Poch through a very sticky spell and they're a basket case. Of course, sticking doesn't guarantee anything but, fudge me, we have to at some point try and ride out a bad patch.

But there are major concerns here. Talk of us being unlucky yesterday isn't a fair assessment. We were fairly comprehensively beaten IMO. Even with a 2-0 advantage at home, we never looked like we'd hold on to it or get any control of the game. Ange is underachieving with this group at the moment whatever way you look at it. Most fans don't expect a title challenge, many probably expect a CL push (which is not unreasonable) but very few think 11th is acceptable at this point. Ange should get time but he has to start turning it around.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think we've got to see this through to end of season minimum. And I'm saying that knowing the next few weeks will probably be grim. Woolwich stood by Arteta through some ropey results and finishes, Pep had a difficult first year given their resources, Klopp had a tough time too. Even last year, Chelsea stuck with Poch through a very sticky spell and they're a basket case. Of course, sticking doesn't guarantee anything but, fudge me, we have to at some point try and ride out a bad patch.

But there are major concerns here. Talk of us being unlucky yesterday isn't a fair assessment. We were fairly comprehensively beaten IMO. Even with a 2-0 advantage at home, we never looked like we'd hold on to it or get any control of the game. Ange is underachieving with this group at the moment whatever way you look at it. Most fans don't expect a title challenge, many probably expect a CL push (which is not unreasonable) but very few think 11th is acceptable at this point. Ange should get time but he has to start turning it around.

We were unlucky IMO in that we didn’t score more … we hit the bar, son 1 on 1 and the penalty he could have won and Solanke miss
And they were lucky we have them two penalties
But they were the better side. We have been the better sides in many games and not taken the points

 

[DeanoAustin]

We were unlucky IMO in that we didn’t score more … we hit the bar, son 1 on 1 and the penalty he could have won and Solanke miss
And they were lucky we have them two penalties
But they were the better side. We have been the better sides in many games and not taken the points

To be fair on Son's one, that could have been disallowed had he scored. Would have caused uproar either way.

I take the general point though albeit Forster made 2-3 really good saves.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To be fair on Son's one, that could have been disallowed had he scored. Would have caused uproar either way.

I take the general point though albeit Forster made 2-3 really good saves.

It would have stood but I think it’s wrong that it should have
He did make some saves
Their keeper didn’t make as many we know
But he did make the save of the highest chance which was solankes

 

[Jurgen the German]

Genuine question
What was wrong with the set up yesterday in peoples views?
Contextually you have to consider who were playing (most in form team in the country) who rotated out 7 players (according to the BBC) from their game a day earlier than ours midweek
They are fresh and pretty much injury free with the first team playing (not sure Reece James will ever get fit)
And we scored 2 goals quickly
The reason they got their goal was arguably (sure this is a debate) the change we made to the defence 4 mins earlier with Romero going off
The other openly goal was a good bit of dribbling from Palmer who was shorting and got a lucky deflection in the way it landed right in front of their player who now has 3 in 3 games
The pens were stupid… not tactical
And one of them was won by a player who should have been off the pitch
We kissed better chances than they did
Despite them dominating possession

I don’t agree about the chances or the setup. Did you not see the other chance Palmer had where he completely missed the ball in the first half? Or the one v one that Jackson had when he was clean through but Dragusin got back and tackled him? In isolation you could argue they only scored 2 from open play but that’s how we play, we always give teams chances and we’re too easy to play against. Going forward isn’t the issue, we always create but we gift too many chances at the other end. Bournemouth should have scored 5 the other night so yesterday was far from a one off. We can’t keep saying “we have the 2nd best defensive record” anymore especially as it’s not even the case now but even if it was, we still don’t defend well I don’t care what the stats say. BTW, they also gifted us our first two goals so it’s not like they were from our good play. Albeit good finishes.