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OMT ** Tottenham Hotspur v Wolves ** 29 December 2024.

Baleforce said:
They don’t need to do better, they just need to handle someone else’s minutes.

By me, none.
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Maybe not by you, but there plenty that use any stick at hand to beat our managers with, and in my experience one of the most common is the play the kids in the cups, sack him he's useless he can't even win a cup lot.

As for the fallacy of playing kids, you do that when you have your best players them to help them through a game.
That's what Fergie did, he had pallister, irwin, Bruce Keane and the like around those kids protecting them.
We don't have that just now.
 
glasgowspur said:
It wasn't actually aimed at him being at the darts, although I can see how that is how it's being read and that's my fault for a lazy post.
He's a coward because he hides on pitch, digs players lower in seniority than him and offers no support.
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Ah gotcha, agree with that and sorry for misunderstanding your post.
 
glasgowspur said:
Maybe not by you, but there plenty that use any stick at hand to beat our managers with, and in my experience one of the most common is the play the kids in the cups, sack him he's useless he can't even win a cup lot.

As for the fallacy of playing kids, you do that when you have your best players them to help them through a game.
That's what Fergie did, he had pallister, irwin, Bruce Keane and the like around those kids protecting them.
We don't have that just now.
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We are in such a mess that the most important thing now is giving senior players a rest and getting them fit for the league games.

I’m not coming at this from an angle of caring about their development right now.

It’s about points this season.
 
It was nice to go yesterday, I enjoyed it apart from idoit behind me who cheered when Fraser went down and was looking forward to seeing Austin (obviously never seen him with ball at his feet) most of ground got behind the team although they were struggling to get a grip on the game. Son is really a problem his confidence has gone and he's a sad ineffective captain and player at the moment. Got to agree about ref, they are so inconsistent. I didn't think it was a penalty but I'm at other end of ground and have not seen TV, I had little faith in Son scoring which is rare for me.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
It was nice to go yesterday, I enjoyed it apart from idoit behind me who cheered when Fraser went down and was looking forward to seeing Austin (obviously never seen him with ball at his feet)
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That was a weird moment. The commentator on the world feed was convinced Forster was done and even mentioned it as the reason for one of his poor passes/clearances later on. He only went down so Udogie could change his boots.
 
tommysvr said:
1. There’s a number of different things. Squad changes, underlying stats, results of course. Probably other things. I think we’ve made great progress on the first two.

2. Sure…but I don’t think anything you’ve mentioned explains the sheer volume of injuries we’ve suffered from. This in another a completely new level to last season. The fact that these injuries are happening elsewhere suggest it’s not just Ange, but likely a combination of his intense style, a huge increase in matches worldwide, and the fact that each injury brings increased load for others. We still don’t have a squad he fully trusts, so we’ve seen him make questionable decisions about player workload. He’s not blameless, but I don’t think the entire blame should lie with him either.
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1) Squad changes happen regardless of the headcoach and are primarily driven by the technical staff headed up by Lange. Of course they are currently purchasing players for the coach's preferred profile but it's a longer term plan than the current coach will have to the forefront of their mind and the squad improvements will happen irrespective of whether Ange is here or not. Underlying stats? The only stats that matter are how many you score in a game versus how many the other team score. Results? You seriously think our results are improving? We have just had our worst calendar year for results in over a decade and are currently on course for our worst season of results in over 15 to 20 years.

For context of "improving" results, at the half way point this season we have already lost the same number of games as we did in the entirety of last season.

If we repeated the first half of the season's results across the rest of the season we will lose 17 or 18 games. You hsve to go back to the 2003/2004 season to find a total season loss total of that magnitude (where we lost 19 games. The next worse season for losses in the last 20 years was 2008/2009 with 15.

I think it is fairly safe to predict we will lose at least 6 more games this season (and that would represent a decent improvement in form in the second half of the season if we did) meaning we'd have equaled our worst ever season for results in a 20 year period.

So I'm glad you're looking at what is going on and feeling optimistic.....but forgive me if I don't share it.
 
tommysvr said:
That was a weird moment. The commentator on the world feed was convinced Forster was done and even mentioned it as the reason for one of his poor passes/clearances later on. He only went down so Udogie could change his boots.
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I never noticed that was so tinkled off with Wally behind me, every time we concede a corner or freekick he predicts a goal.
 
Kompakted said:
Time for what? What are the foundations being built here? The signs of progress from, say, the first season or the first months of this season? The performances are worse than when he first arrived, not better. We are being plagued by muscle injuries (must have had more hamstring injuries in the 18 months Ange has been in charge than in the previous decade!)
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I quite strongly belive that our current run of poor performances and results are due to injuries, fatigue and fixture congestion.

So time to get a somewhat healthy squad again, perhaps helped by the January transfer window.

That being said we now have almost a week between games until the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game in the first time in... I can't remember. I think it's fair to expect a bit better in that game.
 
Kompakted said:
1) Squad changes happen regardless of the headcoach and are primarily driven by the technical staff headed up by Lange. Of course they are currently purchasing players for the coach's preferred profile but it's a longer term plan than the current coach will have to the forefront of their mind and the squad improvements will happen irrespective of whether Ange is here or not. Underlying stats? The only stats that matter are how many you score in a game versus how many the other team score. Results? You seriously think our results are improving? We have just had our worst calendar year for results in over a decade and are currently on course for our worst season of results in over 15 years.

For context of "improving" results, at the half way point this season we have already lost the same number of games as we did in the entirety of last season.

If we repeated the first half of the season's results across the rest of the season we will lose 17 or 18 games. You hsve to go back to the 2003/2004 season to find a total season loss total of that magnitude (where we lost 19 games. The next worse season for losses in the last 20 years was 2008/2009 with 15.

I think it is fairly safe to predict we will lose at least 6 more games this season (and that would represent a decent improvement in form in the second half of the season if we did) meaning we'd have equaled our worst ever season for results in a 20 year period.

So I'm glad you're looking at what is going on and feeling optimistic.....but forgive me if I don't share it.
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I'm not sure of the figures but were the circumstances the same in 2003/4? Had we had so many injuries, had we played 7/8 more games than at least 60% of our opponents?
 
Kompakted said:
1) Squad changes happen regardless of the headcoach and are primarily driven by the technical staff headed up by Lange. Of course they are currently purchasing players for the coach's preferred profile but it's a longer term plan than the current coach will have to the forefront of their mind and the squad improvements will happen irrespective of whether Ange is here or not. Underlying stats? The only stats that matter are how many you score in a game versus how many the other team score. Results? You seriously think our results are improving? We have just had our worst calendar year for results in over a decade and are currently on course for our worst season of results in over 15 to 20 years.

For context of "improving" results, at the half way point this season we have already lost the same number of games as we did in the entirety of last season.

If we repeated the first half of the season's results across the rest of the season we will lose 17 or 18 games. You hsve to go back to the 2003/2004 season to find a total season loss total of that magnitude (where we lost 19 games. The next worse season for losses in the last 20 years was 2008/2009 with 15.

I think it is fairly safe to predict we will lose at least 6 more games this season (and that would represent a decent improvement in form in the second half of the season if we did) meaning we'd have equaled our worst ever season for results in a 20 year period.

So I'm glad you're looking at what is going on and feeling optimistic.....but forgive me if I don't share it.
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You read my post too quickly. I didn't say results are improving. I said we made progress on the first two - improving that squad (mostly clearing the decks) and the stats. But for the injury crisis I feel would that would eventually turn into the results we crave.
 
Mikey10 said:
Last year we apparently had too few games, this year it’s apparently too many.
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Like all stats they lack context, I think most fans think the number of games and injuries have been a major cause of our current position but the empty barrels make the most noise, interesting to hear on radio yesterday that Saka will have a big effect to Woolwich, how will they cope, I worried for them.
 
tommysvr said:
You read my post too quickly. I didn't say results are improving. I said we made progress on the first two - improving that squad (mostly clearing the decks) and the stats. But for the injury crisis I feel would that would eventually turn into the results we crave.
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Our results without an "injury crisis" don't paint a massively rosy picture. Our win and loss ratio and poor results (losing 2 goal lead to Brighton, losing at Palace, losing at home to Ipswich) interspaced with brilliant ones (3-0 at United, 4-1 v Villa) and that trend has kind of just continued through this *injury crisis* - we beat City 4-0 away with our 2nd choice centre back pairing and Southampton 5-0 with Gray, Spence and Bergvall starting but lost to Bournemouth and Forest and got trounced by Liverpool in the same run.

So you can argue that things will improve when players come back....I'd argue the results have actually just followed the existing trend regardless of who is available.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I'm not sure of the figures but were the circumstances the same in 2003/4? Had we had so many injuries, had we played 7/8 more games than at least 60% of our opponents?
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I don't think we've ever had so many injuries as we have had this season and the season before. So Ange is indeed either drastically unlucky on the injury front or is a contributing factor to that particular issue.

We've had plenty of seasons where we've managed European football and the league and managed a top 4/6 finish.

Our results were this way out 2nd half of last season with no Europe: our form from the middle part of last season:

L
W
W (FA Cup)
D
L (FA Cup)
W
D
W
L
W
W
L
W
D
W
L
L
L
L
W
L
W
*season ends*
 
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