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Morgan Gibbs-White

DubSpur said:
Of course players are going to look to move to bigger clubs, but Liverpool and City aren't going to buy every player. Outside, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, possibly Chelsea and Utd, we would be the next club players would choose amongst English clubs. We will be next on wages and normally at the very least Europa League and pushing for CL.

If we take out last season our average position over the previous 10 years was 4.7. Five of those seasons we qualified for the CL. Another two of those seasons we finished 5th which would now be enough to qualify for CL. So your statement that we aren't a stable top side that will compete for a CL berth is a load of crap.
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I think my point was more that it's easy for a club trying to keep a player to sell a negative story to a young player about our club. They wouldn't even try the same lines with Pool, Goons or City. However, they might try the line that their career could be held back if they spend too much time on the bench. Of course, finishing 17th has given these other clubs even more ammunition to build counter arguments as to why they should not join Spurs. I also think the revolving door of managers since Poch is another counter-argument I'd use to try and keep a player.

It's subtle, but I was actually talking in perceptions and totally ended my post saying that we need to change these as, like a lot of perceptions, they aren't actually totally true. 2-3 seasons of consistency and stability would be a game changer for the perception of Spurs. Hopefully, the trophy has put to bed some other counter arguments, but I'm still a little on the fence with this one. It can now be "one trophy in 20 years" etc used against us.

I still only really recall one consistent period of CL footie under Poch. We've had everything from no UEFA football to CL football recently. That average of 4.7 is interesting over 10 years. In the last 5 years we've had 17, 5, 8, 4, 7 averaging 8.2. You see how it is easy to write a different story by using the same data slightly differently?

What I think may have a big impact on Spurs is if the UEFA coefficient can stay at a level where the PL get 5 places. That could be a game changer for us.
 
DubSpur said:
Of course players are going to look to move to bigger clubs, but Liverpool and City aren't going to buy every player. Outside, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, possibly Chelsea and Utd, we would be the next club players would choose amongst English clubs. We will be next on wages and normally at the very least Europa League and pushing for CL.

If we take out last season our average position over the previous 10 years was 4.7. Five of those seasons we qualified for the CL. Another two of those seasons we finished 5th which would now be enough to qualify for CL. So your statement that we aren't a stable top side that will compete for a CL berth is a load of crap.
Click to expand...
I guess it's a case of definitions but I would call a stable top team one that can realistically challenge for the league every few years. There was a period in recent times that we were indeed that, in recent years we have swayed massively away from being stable imo.
 
Muttley said:
I think other clubs and their players look at us and see a EL team that bounces from one drama to the next with solid foundations in place. They don't see us as a stable top side that will always be competing for a CL berth and other trophies. I reckon that would be a logical argument I would have with my player if they said they were interested in moving to Spurs. I'd tell them to wait for one of the "better" and "bigger" clubs to come along. I'm not sure I'd be that interested in dealing with Spurs either when I could be dealing with Pool or City. I could be wrong on that but it is a perception you always get when Spurs go into any transfer opportunity.

It's obviously only Spurs that can change this perception in the same way we have with the U21 players choosing us nowadays. It's not really true in the way I see it now. There is a lot that can go right for us moving forward under Frank.
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Its really simple
They see a fan base with an arrogance they don’t believe we deserve
Hell villa and forest talk about the European cup wins as why they are bigger and better
Everton talk about the 80s
Others talk about when they were great and did better than us as if it’s relevant today
The ads in the lack of trophies …
It’s that basic
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Its really simple
They see a fan base with an arrogance they don’t believe we deserve
Hell villa and forest talk about the European cup wins as why they are bigger and better
Everton talk about the 80s
Others talk about when they were great and did better than us as if it’s relevant today
The ads in the lack of trophies …
It’s that basic
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Yeah, I guess fan exchange will always have it's biases.

I'm more worried about our disposition with other clubs and especially players. In this new phase beyond stadium opening and COVID, we've got a lot to be optimistic about. Better than ever actually. The 3 clubs you mention all should want to trade places. They might get to our level of revenues and operating model eventually, but they aren't there now. Way more risk in their equations than ours.
 
Muttley said:
I think my point was more that it's easy for a club trying to keep a player to sell a negative story to a young player about our club. They wouldn't even try the same lines with Pool, Goons or City. However, they might try the line that their career could be held back if they spend too much time on the bench. Of course, finishing 17th has given these other clubs even more ammunition to build counter arguments as to why they should not join Spurs. I also think the revolving door of managers since Poch is another counter-argument I'd use to try and keep a player.

It's subtle, but I was actually talking in perceptions and totally ended my post saying that we need to change these as, like a lot of perceptions, they aren't actually totally true. 2-3 seasons of consistency and stability would be a game changer for the perception of Spurs. Hopefully, the trophy has put to bed some other counter arguments, but I'm still a little on the fence with this one. It can now be "one trophy in 20 years" etc used against us.

I still only really recall one consistent period of CL footie under Poch. We've had everything from no UEFA football to CL football recently. That average of 4.7 is interesting over 10 years. In the last 5 years we've had 17, 5, 8, 4, 7 averaging 8.2. You see how it is easy to write a different story by using the same data slightly differently?

What I think may have a big impact on Spurs is if the UEFA coefficient can stay at a level where the PL get 5 places. That could be a game changer for us.
Click to expand...
A player is going to look at if it's a step up or not, wages, and if there's any interest from other clubs. We'll still be one of the top choices outside City, Liverpool and Arsenal. If MGW does go through that will see us having got two players that are probably in the best couple of players at their previous club.

That average for the last 5 years is swung largely on one season. Without last season the average is 6. If that one season proves to be an outlier than we'll again be in the European places.
 
Bishop said:
I guess it's a case of definitions but I would call a stable top team one that can realistically challenge for the league every few years. There was a period in recent times that we were indeed that, in recent years we have swayed massively away from being stable imo.
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That's fair enough, I was more considering it as a team that is normally competing for CL slots.
 
DubSpur said:
A player is going to look at if it's a step up or not, wages, and if there's any interest from other clubs. We'll still be one of the top choices outside City, Liverpool and Arsenal. If MGW does go through that will see us having got two players that are probably in the best couple of players at their previous club.

That average for the last 5 years is swung largely on one season. Without last season the average is 6. If that one season proves to be an outlier than we'll again be in the European places.
Click to expand...

Agree, I'd be more worried about the 7th and 8th over the outlier 17th. In some ways, almost more disappointing.

To your first point, this is why I've always wanted Joao Gomez from Wolves. It's easy to see how good Wharton is. Then you have others who play for big clubs already. When you see the leadership and ability that Gomez gives Wolves, it makes you think he'd be a perfect player in our setup right now.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Not sure its about forest thinking they're above us, but i can see the point that if you've been told "I'll only request a transfer to a club that qualifies for the CL" and you've kind of thought that stops at Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Saudi Sportswashing Machine....and City are the only ones that make contact and then go away, you're probably within your rights to an extent to start planning based on keeping him and I can see the point where he then comes with our offer and says he wants to go where youd be within your rights to have a bit of a hissy fit about it and say "but they only got CL due to a technicality - they finished 17th FFS". I think we probably just need to let thise discussions play out. Feel like this is going to either end in him joining us with their reluctant ok, or him being convinced to sign a new deal at Forest with a view to a move to a "proper" CL club next summer.....
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Whereas NF only qualified for the competition we won to get CL by a technicality.
If they can't structure their contracts correctly that's not our problem.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I thought it was best when Son, Alli and Eriksen played as a trio behind Kane (the classic DESK line-up). Son held the left, Alli got close up behind Kane almost as a second striker, whilst Eriksen provided the main creative thrust from narrow right. We could almost have that same balance again with Tel, MGW and Kudus.
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I thought that was the beginning of the end for Dele's form as he was the deepest of the four iirc.
 
DubSpur said:
Of course players are going to look to move to bigger clubs, but Liverpool and City aren't going to buy every player. Outside, City, Liverpool, Arsenal, possibly Chelsea and Utd, we would be the next club players would choose amongst English clubs. We will be next on wages and normally at the very least Europa League and pushing for CL.

If we take out last season our average position over the previous 10 years was 4.7. Five of those seasons we qualified for the CL. Another two of those seasons we finished 5th which would now be enough to qualify for CL. So your statement that we aren't a stable top side that will compete for a CL berth is a load of crap.
Click to expand...
Par.
 
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