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Jan Vertonghen

Sign a new contract or dont play him.

I wonder what people would think of his defending if it wasn't for his technical ability on the ball.

It was his job as senior outfield player to sort out us not dealing with Fellaini on Sunday in the first 20 minutes. He as usual took no responsibility.
 
Ah, spacegoating again ModricTHFC? Not sure what a contract has to do with the match against United (a contract which btw has the same duration as the guy you have as your avatar has, should we bench him as well?). Only on this forum would you have a CB being at fault for all three goals and get people suggesting that it's the other CB who needs to get benched, pathetic.

It was the coach his job to sort out the Fellaini mess. He set us up wrong, that is not on Vertonghen.
 
Coys300 said:
Ah, spacegoating again ModricTHFC? Not sure what a contract has to do with the match against United (a contract which btw has the same duration as the guy you have as your avatar has, should we bench him as well?). Only on this forum would you have a CB being at fault for all three goals and get people suggesting that it's the other CB who needs to get benched, pathetic.

It was the coach his job to sort out the Fellaini mess. He set us up wrong, that is not on Vertonghen.
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Verts has dodge a load of deserved criticism this season and he has been the only main stay in a dodgy back 4 which kind of tells you something doesn't it?
 
Yiddo said:
Verts has dodge a load of deserved criticism this season and he has been the only main stay in a dodgy back 4 which kind of tells you something doesn't it?
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That he is the least useless among them?

How exactly has he dodged criticism though? If anything he has been made the spacegoat by many.
 
Modric THFC said:
Sign a new contract or dont play him.

I wonder what people would think of his defending if it wasn't for his technical ability on the ball.

It was his job as senior outfield player to sort out us not dealing with Fellaini on Sunday in the first 20 minutes. He as usual took no responsibility.
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Along with Rose he was our best defender against United. If Dier and Walker had put in similar performances to those two we would have done a lot better.
 
Modric THFC said:
Whos job is it to organise the back 4 on the pitch?
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Our captain?

No, seriously. I get what you're trying to say. But I just disagree. Saying that it's Vertonghen's fault that Dier and Walker did poorly is like saying it was Ledley King's fault when Anthony Gardner looked poor alongside him. We've put in several good/decent performances with that back 4, all of a sudden Dier has a poor game, Walker has an atrocious game and you jump into blaming Verts for it? Despite the very obvious facts that Dier has been inconsistent at right back too and is very young and relatively new to the league. And the fact that Walker has a history of inconsistency. Never mind all that. Must be Vertonghen's fault? Not buying it at all...
 
Yeah, it is spacegoating at its best. Dier makes three huge mistakes and yet people put the blame on Vertonghen for apparently not organising (not sure what lack of organisation has to do with Dier getting outrun by Fellaini, Dier losing an arial dual with Fellaini and Dier refusing to tackle Rooney?).

And then this same person wants Fazio in the team, because he is apparently a great organiser, yet that Fazio-Kaboul partnership was the most disorganised mess I have ever seen. But that is apparently down to individual mistakes from Kaboul, yet when it's Dier making individual mistakes it's down to lack of leadership from the guy next to him, lol the irony.
 
Coys300 said:
Yeah, it is spacegoating at its best. Dier makes three huge mistakes and yet people put the blame on Vertonghen for apparently not organising (not sure what lack of organisation has to do with Dier getting outrun by Fellaini, Dier losing an arial dual with Fellaini and Dier refusing to tackle Rooney?).

And then this same person wants Fazio in the team, because he is apparently a great organiser, yet that Fazio-Kaboul partnership was the most disorganised mess I have ever seen. But that is apparently down to individual mistakes from Kaboul, yet when it's Dier making individual mistakes it's down to lack of leadership from the guy next to him, lol the irony.
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Agreed. If Walker and Dier need Vertonghen to tell them not to give away that kind of space between them as was there for the first goal (at 0-0!) then our problems are much greater than I previously thought.

Individual mistakes by players, clinically punished by a good Manchester United side. Blaming it on the players that didn't make those individual mistakes makes little sense to me.
 
Yiddo said:
Only recently because people have figured out he may well be the problem.
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Lol, you know how much abuse he got last year? If he is 'the problem', why then is he the only one who is pretty much a regular at CB? Why doesn't Pochettino bench him? It is funny that during the short period in which this actually happened we were worse than ever at the back.
 
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Blaming it on the players that didn't make those individual mistakes makes little sense to me.
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Well, it kind of does if you take into account that people have an agenda. Dier is the young upcoming English CB who can do nothing wrong, compared to the guy who refuses to extend his three year contract and doesn't run around with a smile on his face. Some people clearly are desperate to spacegoat the latter one to avoid blame for their own favourites.
 
Coys300 said:
Ah, spacegoating again ModricTHFC? Not sure what a contract has to do with the match against United (a contract which btw has the same duration as the guy you have as your avatar has, should we bench him as well?). Only on this forum would you have a CB being at fault for all three goals and get people suggesting that it's the other CB who needs to get benched, pathetic.

It was the coach his job to sort out the Fellaini mess. He set us up wrong, that is not on Vertonghen.
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My thoughts as well, the problem is that there are many who believed his body language was wrong last season ( still can not find out which Uni you have to attend to become a body language expert :rolleyes:), I back Poch but he made the wrong team choice against Utd and should have played Fazio. Dier was to blame for at least two goals but the Jan ( body language experts) have to blame him.
 
Coys300 said:
Well, it kind of does if you take into account that people have an agenda. Dier is the young upcoming English CB who can do nothing wrong, compared to the guy who refuses to extend his three year contract and doesn't run around with a smile on his face. Some people clearly are desperate to spacegoat the latter one to avoid blame for their own favourites.
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Sums it up spot on.
 
braineclipse said:
Blaming Vertonghen over Dier for the game against United... I think that's pretty close to spacegoating even if fingers are also pointed at Dier at the same time.
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Maybe but that isn't what was said, unless i've missed something?

Dier was at fault for the individual errors, of that everyone seems to be in agreement - some think that as the senior defender Vertonhen is in a position to exert some influence on the situation (that being a young defender playing on a big stage) i think it's a fair point and goes deeper than simply discussing the individual errors
 
The question on Jan is: does he organise the defence as well as his seniority in the team would/should dictate? does he shirk responsibility too often when it comes to the crunch?

Ultimately, what DEFENSIVE skillset does he bring to the table? (we know he is very good in terms of passing and is good on the ball, so we needn't mention that btw)
 
billyiddo said:
Maybe but that isn't what was said, unless i've missed something?

Dier was at fault for the individual errors, of that everyone seems to be in agreement - some think that as the senior defender Vertonhen is in a position to exert some influence on the situation (that being a young defender playing on a big stage) i think it's a fair point and goes deeper than simply discussing the individual errors
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And the support for Dier has been fairly broad up until now has it not? Playing next to... Jan Vertonghen.

Eric Dier plays well alongside Vertonghen. Eric Dier is gets a lot of credit, he is a very good player (who perhaps would be best partnered alongside Fazio).

The young Eric Dier then makes a small handful of mistakes in one game. Yeah, let's blame Jan Vertonghen for not organizing the back 4 well enough. Despite everyone thinking that Dier was doing really well up until the latest game. And just about every young centre back in the world being inconsistent. This makes no kinds of sense to me.

Individual errors like those happening for the goals against United did not look like problems caused by poor organization by the other centre back. They looked to me like the kind of errors you get from time to time from an inexperienced centre back playing in a not too experienced team still being developed.

glorygloryeze said:
The question on Jan is: does he organise the defence as well as his seniority in the team would/should dictate? does he shirk responsibility too often when it comes to the crunch?

Ultimately, what DEFENSIVE skillset does he bring to the table? (we know he is very good in terms of passing and is good on the ball, so we needn't mention that btw)
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Of our centre backs it's between him and Fazio for who organizes the back 4 the best. Those two have both looked at their best when playing together this season, I see no way to judge who organizes the team the best out of those two. Although I'm guessing Pochettino, who seemingly sees Vertognghen as his best centre back, has some idea.

Good positionally, good in the tackle, reasonably quick, reasonably good in the air, composed and good awareness. At worst a decent organizer of a back 4 and a decent leader.
 
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