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Jan Vertonghen

braineclipse said:
Would you mind listing his brain farts in the last weeks/months as I don't remember particularly many? But I know my memory is flawed...
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Well in the last week he has given away a goal in Florence and then get turned way to easy on the bye line for Ki to score last night as well as not covering the back post for their late chance last night and along with Davies ball watching for their second goal.

I like Verts. But he seems to be strolling. not putting in his best. he looks comfortable on the ball, but uncomfortable picking up his assignments on set plays and balls into the box.
 
Sandman said:
Well in the last week he has given away a goal in Florence and then get turned way to easy on the bye line for Ki to score last night as well as not covering the back post for their late chance last night and along with Davies ball watching for their second goal.

I like Verts. But he seems to be strolling. not putting in his best. he looks comfortable on the ball, but uncomfortable picking up his assignments on set plays and balls into the box.
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You really think it's fair to blame Verts for the second Swansea goal yesterday?
 
braineclipse said:
You really think it's fair to blame Verts for the second Swansea goal yesterday?
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I think our defence need to stand up and take some accountability. Verts too often seems to get out of blame as he is not close enough to the ball, ball watching in my mind or marking space. When that cross came in Davies was way too far off Siggurdsson. But neither of them had a quick look around to see who to mark. They just blindly dropped in a space near the goal. Bad defending all around in my book.

Dier is on the near post so he was going to get taken out by the cross. But Verts and Davies should be marking whoever is at the back post. Its also his demeanour after a goal goes in. Its like he doesnt care much. Which is why he is not captain.
 
Sandman said:
I think our defence need to stand up and take some accountability. Verts too often seems to get out of blame as he is not close enough to the ball, ball watching in my mind or marking space. When that cross came in Davies was way too far off Siggurdsson. But neither of them had a quick look around to see who to mark. They just blindly dropped in a space near the goal. Bad defending all around in my book.

Dier is on the near post so he was going to get taken out by the cross. But Verts and Davies should be marking whoever is at the back post. Its also his demeanour after a goal goes in. Its like he doesnt care much. Which is why he is not captain.
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Is that a yes or a no on it being fair to blame Verts for the second Swansea goal yesterday? I honestly cannot tell.

It seems to me rather ridiculous to blame the centre back for leaving the widest player for a cross when his full back is there in the wider position. I really, genuinely, struggle to get my head around it. And it seems to me the kind of thing where Verts gets the blame because that's the narrative.

How about Dier getting himself completely out of position for the first goal? Forcing Verts to come over to the right centre back position? Or how about how Dier failed to deal with a not too dissimilar situation against Chelsea with a bouncing ball, despite using his strongest foot - potentially could have earned himself a sending off in the process had the ref seen it clearly. But Vertonghen making mistakes is apparently the story people are looking to tell.

Verts has played a lot of football in the last month or so. Quite a bit more than Rose, Davies, Dier, Fazio and even Walker. It's not surprising that he's making a mistake or two, others are doing as well.
 
braineclipse said:
Is that a yes or a no on it being fair to blame Verts for the second Swansea goal yesterday? I honestly cannot tell.

It seems to me rather ridiculous to blame the centre back for leaving the widest player for a cross when his full back is there in the wider position. I really, genuinely, struggle to get my head around it. And it seems to me the kind of thing where Verts gets the blame because that's the narrative.

How about Dier getting himself completely out of position for the first goal? Forcing Verts to come over to the right centre back position? Or how about how Dier failed to deal with a not too dissimilar situation against Chelsea with a bouncing ball, despite using his strongest foot - potentially could have earned himself a sending off in the process had the ref seen it clearly. But Vertonghen making mistakes is apparently the story people are looking to tell.

Verts has played a lot of football in the last month or so. Quite a bit more than Rose, Davies, Dier, Fazio and even Walker. It's not surprising that he's making a mistake or two, others are doing as well.
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Can I just clarify: are you saying that Verts should not take any blame for the first goal?
 
braineclipse said:
Is that a yes or a no on it being fair to blame Verts for the second Swansea goal yesterday? I honestly cannot tell.

It seems to me rather ridiculous to blame the centre back for leaving the widest player for a cross when his full back is there in the wider position. I really, genuinely, struggle to get my head around it. And it seems to me the kind of thing where Verts gets the blame because that's the narrative.

How about Dier getting himself completely out of position for the first goal? Forcing Verts to come over to the right centre back position? Or how about how Dier failed to deal with a not too dissimilar situation against Chelsea with a bouncing ball, despite using his strongest foot - potentially could have earned himself a sending off in the process had the ref seen it clearly. But Vertonghen making mistakes is apparently the story people are looking to tell.

Verts has played a lot of football in the last month or so. Quite a bit more than Rose, Davies, Dier, Fazio and even Walker. It's not surprising that he's making a mistake or two, others are doing as well.
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I portion some of the blame in his direction. As for Dier being accountable. Of course he is. But unlike Vertonghen he is not yet hailed as a possible World class player who has aspirations to play for Barcelona. He is a young player, in his first season in the Premier league playing probably about his 10th game in that position for us. So he is allowed a little more latitude.

Vertonghen I am holding up to the standard he has set in previous seasons. So that is the level he must look to maintain. I do not follow any kind of narrative or agenda. I dont hate any of our players. I just want the Team to do well. Im sick of us conceeding all the time. We need to look to keep clean sheets.

And when we have 4 Defenders in the box, and only 2 opposition players. No matter how they get pulled or where the run is going or who is suppose to be marking who. I look at that and think the defenders are not using their heads to mark players.
 
For me Jan was one of our best players last night overall and has been very very good for the last two months. in fact he has had a good season. For any goal there will always be a mistake or error made and yes he should have done better for it, but he was commanding otherwise else. His attitude last year really seemed to turn people against him and although he has been very good this year it seems a lot of people aren't giving him some of the credit he deserves.

Scrap that he has been excellent this year.
 
LCLC said:
For me Jan was one of our best players last night overall and has been very very good for the last two months. in fact he has had a good season. For any goal there will always be a mistake or error made and yes he should have done better for it, but he was commanding otherwise else. His attitude last year really seemed to turn people against him and although he has been very good this year it seems a lot of people aren't giving him some of the credit he deserves.

Scrap that he has been excellent this year.
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The problem is that he has started making regular key mistakes (last night and away vs Fiorentina) or seems less commanding or showing less leadership in certain situations than you would expect (e.g. where was he when Dier was getting embroiled with Costa?). It is not just this season; he seemed to really tail off from about this point in AVB's firs6t season two years ago and I don't need to speak about last season as most of the team were rickety at this time.
My worry is that this is a pattern at this time of year every season for Verts.

When look at a CB pair, I think Fazio and Dier may be the best overall pairing: Dier may not quite have Fazio's, organising skills, height and strength but his is decently strong in the air in his own right and the pace he brings makes up for Fazio chronic lack of it.
Verts is so-so in the air against the big bruisers (is he much better than Dier in this regard btw?) and his pace is also so-so (if not actually slow).
His organising skills seem to be meh as well.

I think vs QPR it would be good to try Fazio and Dier and let Verts reflect from the bench..
 
LCLC said:
For me Jan was one of our best players last night overall and has been very very good for the last two months. in fact he has had a good season. For any goal there will always be a mistake or error made and yes he should have done better for it, but he was commanding otherwise else. His attitude last year really seemed to turn people against him and although he has been very good this year it seems a lot of people aren't giving him some of the credit he deserves.

Scrap that he has been excellent this year.
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You mean all those body language experts who could tell he was not interested :rolleyes:, he is the best CB we have at the club.
 
In the safety industry there is a term: Never Events. These are events which are simply unacceptable, should never happen and for which there is no excuse.

An air shot 5 feet in front of your goal is a never event for a defender. Did the King ever do one in his whole career? I certainly do not remember one - and please be free to refresh my memory. Do you think Terry would do one? Much as I hate the c****, the answer is an emphatic... no!

Yet Verts does TWO in the space of a week. Sorry, in my book that is not a top 4 defender.

Another term in safety is: Near Misses - an event which almost led to an adverse event. Look at our defensive "near misses" and Verts is involved in them much more often than you would expect for our most senior and best defender.

Why did we pull back from offering him a contract extension? My feeling is that Poch has exactly the same reservations on his concentration, leadership and ability as I have....
 
I agree with brain's point Verts has played a lot of games recently which could account for certain mistakes. But I can also understand why posters get frustrated with him.
 
I actually think he is overrated on here. I think he makes alot of mistake but is let off because he is a fan favourite. I am not saying he is a bad player or he is the reason for all the goals but I would not be to disappointed if he fudged off to Barca for £25m
 
Yiddo said:
I actually think he is overrated on here. I think he makes alot of mistake but is let off because he is a fan favourite. I am not saying he is a bad player or he is the reason for all the goals but I would not be to disappointed if he fudgeed off to Barca for £25m
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25 million for an over-rated player?
 
He has way too many mistakes in him for a senior player at the club.
Its embarrassing.
A senior player shouldn't switch off like he does.
I'd be happy enough if he ends up at United in the summer. Barcelona have a transfer ban.
 
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