I agree. The only worry is I thought the same 2 years ago and we ended up with with Nuno.
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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC
- Thread starter Daisuk
- Start date
I agree. The only worry is I thought the same 2 years ago and we ended up with with Nuno.
tommysvr
Vedran Corluka
True, but I’d put that down to procedural issues and a lack of managers on the market. I don’t think we’ll have as much trouble this time.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
What self-implode button??? You mean to say that Every. Single. Player. that Spurs have bought in the past 20 years are the type that implodes? And even if they have been that unlucky with their player purchases, it is incumbent upon the manager to focus them and motivate them. Or play the ones that are focused and motivated.
I would have respected Conte if he put out a team that had 3 U21s and 4 bench players and when asked why said "I play the players that fight the hardest." That would be a statement and would be the kick up the arse the rest of the players need. But to play the same team over and over and over and then come out after we blew a game and say "the players are weak," is simply disingenuous. If you want to make a point in one area (mentality), you should be willing to take a hit in another area (results). Conte just wants to have his cake and eat it too and when he can't do that it's everyone else's fault.
demotw
Nicola Berti
Self imploding is a team thing and yes every single player, including the great Kane buckles under pressure. Front foot, underdogs then we look great but the second we try to defend or have an expectation to win (genuine one) we buckle/can’t be bothered. That seems to be a culture thing to me as it has been happening before Poch, think back to Redknapp or even Jol, how many FA cup ties we should win do we limp out on (like Portsmouth in the day). Can you even think of the last group of players we had that took a game we were losing and pulled the team back due to their strength of Will/mentality because I can’t.
Think Beckham vs Greece, or Keane or Ince etc, those type of strong players who took ownership and responsibility. As fans we take the easy way, it’s the manager, it’s the tactics or it’s Eric dier is crap not as a club we have a systemic culture issue dating back to the early 90’s that for whatever reason no manager has been able to eradicate (maybe since Venables) and when new players come in they just adapt this culture and go from being great to scared to perform, scared to fail
Think Beckham vs Greece, or Keane or Ince etc, those type of strong players who took ownership and responsibility. As fans we take the easy way, it’s the manager, it’s the tactics or it’s Eric dier is crap not as a club we have a systemic culture issue dating back to the early 90’s that for whatever reason no manager has been able to eradicate (maybe since Venables) and when new players come in they just adapt this culture and go from being great to scared to perform, scared to fail
RunTMC
Steven Caulker
Ajax CL semifinals?
Also this season don’t we have the most points from losing positions?
Still I agree with your general point though. Too many times we’ve shown a softness with our mentality across different managers
demotw
Nicola Berti
that’s why I mentioned the underdog part, we were never expected to beat Ajax. Same with our odd record against City, no pressure so we perform suddenly.
not sure if we do have the most points from losing positions or not, but have to look at some of those games and wonder why did it have to look like we are going to lose to suddenly release the brakes.
DeanoAustin
Rafael Van Der Vaart
There is some merit in what you say but it's not an absolute.
I'll give you one example this season. Bentancur v Leeds. I love Bentancur, wonderful player, but he was absolute toilet for the first 60-70 mins. He even gave away the third goal IIRC to put us 3-2 down. His worst performance of the season.
He then scored two to win us the game. Always loved the player. Respected the character after that.
DeanoAustin
Rafael Van Der Vaart
Not sure about that. I remember being very optimistic before the tie and don't recall any pundits thinking it'd be anything other than a competitive tie. That they dingdonged us badly for 135 minutes of the tie wasn't expected.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
I don't buy this club culture thing. Maybe it accounts for 10-20%, but the rest is on the manager. It's not like the club is in the players' ears every day telling them "hey don't worry if we lose. You're not good enough, after all, so t's fine." It's the manager that is in the players' face every day. So not rising to the occasion either comes from bad tactics, or bad motivation (or both). And the manager is 100% responsible for that.
Which is another reason why I think Gallardo would be perfect for us. "Another of Gallardo’s greatest strengths is his ability to motivate players. His River sides will forever be remembered for their capacity to prepare perfectly for big cup nights and produce their best performances. He has instilled a mentality in his squad whereby the crunch matches invite players to rise to the occasion, not freeze under pressure."
Of course club culture is a thing. Why do you think it is that no matter how bad Chelsea/Arsenal/Man U are they still manage to win things when they are in one of the underachieving periods whilst no matter how apparently good we are we never do? Sure the manager plays a part, sure luck plays a part, but the culture of the club definitely does. And it definitely doesn’t help if everything at this club from the top down revolves around achieving top 4….
demotw
Nicola Berti
Lads it’s Tottenham.
that saying wasn’t due to our manager but rather our culture and perception that we fold under pressure, our culture was not and is not built around winning no matter what, more around pretty football but no substance. We have never shaken it, I was glad we got Conte as I thought he could do it but clearly not
We've had plenty of must win games, under pressure and won. How else did we get into CL, go deep into it etc?
The second we try to defend? There's been plenty of games we've had to defend for the majority of the game and won, obvious ones are against City.
Genuine expectation to win? Individual games? We win the vast majority of them, even this season or we wouldn't be 4th.
Genuine expectation to win a trophy? We're never favourites to win a trophy.
I don't recall everything from the top down revolving around top 4 when ENIC first came in. The goals have changed over time.
When ENIC came in the aim would've been just to stabilise as a top half team. That was achieved.
The goal then moved to qualifying for Europe and establishing ourselves there, again achieved.
Only after that was the goal to achieve top 4 on a regular basis. And guess what, that's been achieved.
It's obvious that the goal is now to win something, otherwise Levy wouldn't have hired proven winners like Conte and Mourinho to get us over the line.
He would've settled for a manger that isn't costing 15m a year and settled for someone he believed was good enough for a top 4 finish.
No, it was because we were brick and there was a huge gulf between us and Utd who were one of the best teams in Europe at the time.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Because they have more money than us for much much longer. We had one 3-4 year period under Poch that we were really good and in the mix, but it didn't result in a trophy. These things happen. United, Chelsea, and Arsenal have gone through 3-4 years without winning anything. The difference between them and us is that they didn't have just a 3-4 year window to do so. Their window has been 20 years and more and when they were in a bad patch they also didn't win anything.
So I think it is a bit disingenuous to compare us with these other teams. I'll accept your argument if we still haven't won anything in 5-10 years time compared to our rivals, because now we have closed the financial gap significantly and are more comparable to them. But up until a couple of years ago we have been playing catchup and any comparison is apples and oranges
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alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Way too much sense in this post. I think you need to delete it, because it may be hazardous to the ENICout phalanx. I can see heads exploding as they read it.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Simple as that really, sadly they are those who want to blame Levy no matter what he does.
we are a conundrum to Conte though - his approach is to surround himself with expensively acquired players who have the same mettle as he does - he achieves this in one or two windows and then wins something. With us, he's got to do something he's not done which is to show patience as we build this over 3-4 years. Problem is he's so abrasive as a person by the time 2 years have passed everyone hates dealing with him, so its a catch 22.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
It's not just blaming Levy. It's this "he only wants top 4 and not to win" narrative that they annoyingly peddle. Even if we assume that Levy's only objective is to increase the club's value, the only way to grow this value now that the stadium is built is not to just get top 4, but to win titles or be in the mix for them. I don't get what the anti-Levy phalanx doesn't get about this. Just getting top 4 will get us some additional CL prize money, whereas winning league and CL titles will explode our revenue and massively increase the club's value. So to assume that Levy, a businessman trying to increase his asset's value, is happy with just top 4, is entirely counterintuitive. Whatever...