Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Mr Gogolak]

1) This is true. But I think that was also true when we were really good last season. And when Conte has been successful in the past. Very few teams play a 3-4-3 these days, but I don't think it's an outdated formation.

Pretty much every manager these days will tell you that formations don't matter as much as patterns of play and specific instructions. 3-4-3 isn't my cup of tea, but it could work. Ironically, I think Conte shot himself in the foot with Porro as he was onto something until the City game.

Royal's lack of end product gives him a more defensive mindset. Against City, that allowed Dier to press much higher with Royal, Romero and Davies covering up. It worked pretty well, I thought. Unfortunately, Porro seems pretty inept defensively and Perisic offers very little in that department either. Add to that a couple of uninspiring performances from Fraser and it's back to square one to figure out our defensive shape. It's a shame because it would have been interesting to see a second game in a row with the same players.

One option would be to drop Perisic to accomodate Porro on the right-hand side but that leaves us with even more problems in our back three, since Davies is the best option defensively. I suspect Conte will go for a more defense-minded duo in midfield but I'm not sure that's the best solution. It's odd when you think that pretty much everyone has been crying for a Royal upgrade and when we finally get one, it creates more problems than it solves.

 

[Mcfee]

It was interesting that Conte should almost shock in his interview when talking about SKippy and Sarr, shocked we had the talent and now, in his own words, sees a brighter future. Shame they have been there all year and not really been used or you would have known earlier. It’s been my biggest gripe with him and his interview just compounds that for me.

I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration, at least I didn’t take it that Conte was “shocked” by their performance. Though at the same time it’s clear PEH will come straight back in as he’s a “key player” in Conte’s words.

 

[Surfless]

Pretty much every manager these days will tell you that formations don't matter as much as patterns of play and specific instructions. 3-4-3 isn't my cup of tea, but it could work. Ironically, I think Conte shot himself in the foot with Porro as he was onto something until the City game.

Royal's lack of end product gives him a more defensive mindset. Against City, that allowed Dier to press much higher with Royal, Romero and Davies covering up. It worked pretty well, I thought. Unfortunately, Porro seems pretty inept defensively and Perisic offers very little in that department either. Add to that a couple of uninspiring performances from Fraser and it's back to square one to figure out our defensive shape. It's a shame because it would have been interesting to see a second game in a row with the same players.

One option would be to drop Perisic to accomodate Porro on the right-hand side but that leaves us with even more problems in our back three, since Davies is the best option defensively. I suspect Conte will go for a more defense-minded duo in midfield but I'm not sure that's the best solution. It's odd when you think that pretty much everyone has been crying for a Royal upgrade and when we finally get one, it creates more problems than it solves.

all that assessment based on one game?

Porro will need six months to get used to the pace of the premier league and Conte's methods. To judge him "inept defensively" after one 70 minute appearance is taking knee jerk to a new level.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

all that assessment based on one game?

Porro will need six months to get used to the pace of the premier league and Conte's methods. To judge him "inept defensively" after one 70 minute appearance is taking knee jerk to a new level.

I've seen him a few times without paying particular attention to his individual performance but I've never seen him described as a great defender. I think it's a supporter's main occupation to make assuptions based on past experiences and intuition. For instance, where does the 'six months' timeline come from? Based on what I've seen, I think he's not a great defensive asset, but I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong.

Just like I'm sure you'd be pleased to be proved wrong if he got used to Conte's methods in three months.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm reluctant to speculate about the mental state of others. In this instance I will, to some degree, but just to be clear all speculation. And in part because others are.

We all have our less than perfect patterns of behaviour we fall into at times. In periods of increased stress and emotional pressure even more so. If Conte is falling into maladaptive patterns at this time it only makes him human, it's most definitely not a damning indictment of him. Frankly I find that viewpoint way too harsh and simplistic.

I may be reading you wrong, the way I read that sentence matches poorly with what I've read and heard from you in the past. I really tried to find a different reading of that sentence, but struggle to find one. I suspect that we agree rather strongly, but this sentence I really struggle with. Apologies if the issue is with my comprehension or interpretation of what you wrote.

I think there are reasons to suspect that Conte isn't in the best place mentally and emotionally at the moment. I also think that may be effecting his work.

If so there's a question of if he can get back to his old self and when. If so I think it would partly explain the contract situation and I think it's fair for both Conte and the club to take a bit of time, evaluate and reevaluate as the season progresses.

If true the club has to keep options open. They can't stick with Conte over time through loyalty, understanding, empathy or hope. But at the same time I think it's fair to give it a bit of time. He's not even fully recovered physically at this moment, but will hopefully soon be.

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what you think I said.

I will try and clarify.

Conte has long been known as passionate. In November, I started to hear whispers that he was someone who was operating in a cloud of chaos. Ally Gold recently published a piece which confirms that.

As you know (pod listener that I believe you are) I called on empathy for Antonio with regards to Ventrone's death having a huge impact on him a while back, something I might add which most people either did not agree with or were not prepared to speculate on. Fair enough. But I was right.

The man has undergone enormous stress. I. believe he has been re-evaluating his life, but that's by the by. He ended up needing emergency gall bladder surgery. This is surgery, not out-patient laser stuff. It requires, at best, 3 weeks rest/off duties, closer to 5. Take away the psychological elements, this is about proper care. He is not Lee Marvin and doesn't have to be. He just needs to look after himself along the guidelines the doctors have offered IMO.

Antonio has 'apparently' defied doctors orders and was on the touchline at Leicester, looking pretty poorly and unable to give 100% by general admission.

I find his refusal to listen to experts, to take the advice to rest, to take the opportunity to rest and recharge, a pretty clear indication of how perhaps he is not always the best judge of a situation. Not my business obviously, but how must his wife feel? And why is he doing it? It is because he feels he needs to for himself. When professionals have clearly told him it is not. I will stop here.

I am prepared to speculate that everyone knows this dance is done. I will always respect and have a warm place for him should the departure happen, but he has to accept criticisms this season. I will also equally feel sorry for him and his loss; I'm prepared to speculate on this @braineclipse. IF Ventrone was still with us, Antonio would be recuperating. Put simply, and in my very personal view, the loss of his daily consiglieri turned the tide a long, long way.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Porro will need six months to get used to the pace of the premier league and Conte's methods.

So we send Spence on loan and replace him with a player who needs about 6 months to get use to this league, swell.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So we send Spence on loan and replace him with a player who needs about 6 months to get use to this league, swell.

As opposed to keep Spence here who conte still wont play

 

[Surfless]

So we send Spence on loan and replace him with a player who needs about 6 months to get use to this league, swell.

It's quite possible spence will need longer though, we have no idea what's been perceived as the reason for his not being selected.

 

[DubSpur]

So we send Spence on loan and replace him with a player who needs about 6 months to get use to this league, swell.

Who says he needs 6 months to get used to the league? It took Kulu and Bentancur about two weeks.
Spence is still young and I'm sure Conte is in a better position to judge if he's ready for this league...

 

[Mcfee]

Who says he needs 6 months to get used to the league? It took Kulu and Bentancur about two weeks.
Spence is still young and I'm sure Conte is in a better position to judge if he's ready for this league...

6 months is more like a Poch thing.

 

[glasgowspur]

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what you think I said.

I will try and clarify.

Conte has long been known as passionate. In November, I started to hear whispers that he was someone who was operating in a cloud of chaos. Ally Gold recently published a piece which confirms that.

As you know (pod listener that I believe you are) I called on empathy for Antonio with regards to Ventrone's death having a huge impact on him a while back, something I might add which most people either did not agree with or were not prepared to speculate on. Fair enough. But I was right.

The man has undergone enormous stress. I. believe he has been re-evaluating his life, but that's by the by. He ended up needing emergency gall bladder surgery. This is surgery, not out-patient laser stuff. It requires, at best, 3 weeks rest/off duties, closer to 5. Take away the psychological elements, this is about proper care. He is not Lee Marvin and doesn't have to be. He just needs to look after himself along the guidelines the doctors have offered IMO.

Antonio has 'apparently' defied doctors orders and was on the touchline at Leicester, looking pretty poorly and unable to give 100% by general admission.

I find his refusal to listen to experts, to take the advice to rest, to take the opportunity to rest and recharge, a pretty clear indication of how perhaps he is not always the best judge of a situation. Not my business obviously, but how must his wife feel? And why is he doing it? It is because he feels he needs to for himself. When professionals have clearly told him it is not. I will stop here.

I am prepared to speculate that everyone knows this dance is done. I will always respect and have a warm place for him should the departure happen, but he has to accept criticisms this season. I will also equally feel sorry for him and his loss; I'm prepared to speculate on this @braineclipse. IF Ventrone was still with us, Antonio would be recuperating. Put simply, and in my very personal view, the loss of his daily consiglieri turned the tide a long, long way.

I would have given this a like, but....
Lee marvin, starving?
Or lee majors, the 6m dollar man, we have the technology to rebuild him, taking me back to youth steff, is who i think you mean.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

It's quite possible spence will need longer though, we have no idea what's been perceived as the reason for his not being selected.

Well considering it comes from the same place of not subbing Son no matter poorly he plays l I am not sure I can continue to trust Conte's judgement.

 

[Mikey10]

And then watch how a top coach can get even average players playing good football

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620934862348640256

And ignore the last 12 months of PL form under him.

 

[90291Spur]

And ignore the last 12 months of PL form under him.

And the context that brought that on. Rinse and repeat until we're all dribbling into our hot chocolate in the old folks home.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

So this is mid February and Conte will not talk about his future, it will be an indictment on Levy if he is not taking a serious look at plan B just in case whether it be Poch or whoever.

 

[kb 1984]

So this is mid February and Conte will not talk about his future, it will be an indictment on Levy if he is not taking a serious look at plan B just in case whether it be Poch or whoever.

Unless something goes seriously wrong Daniel won't act till the end of the season. I wouldn't be surprised if he was already talking to Poch

 

[Grays_1890]

It's quite possible spence will need longer though, we have no idea what's been perceived as the reason for his not being selected.

It takes anyone under the age of 23 longer under Conte as he frankly won't trust anyone of youth.

 

[braineclipse]

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what you think I said.

I will try and clarify.

Conte has long been known as passionate. In November, I started to hear whispers that he was someone who was operating in a cloud of chaos. Ally Gold recently published a piece which confirms that.

As you know (pod listener that I believe you are) I called on empathy for Antonio with regards to Ventrone's death having a huge impact on him a while back, something I might add which most people either did not agree with or were not prepared to speculate on. Fair enough. But I was right.

The man has undergone enormous stress. I. believe he has been re-evaluating his life, but that's by the by. He ended up needing emergency gall bladder surgery. This is surgery, not out-patient laser stuff. It requires, at best, 3 weeks rest/off duties, closer to 5. Take away the psychological elements, this is about proper care. He is not Lee Marvin and doesn't have to be. He just needs to look after himself along the guidelines the doctors have offered IMO.

Antonio has 'apparently' defied doctors orders and was on the touchline at Leicester, looking pretty poorly and unable to give 100% by general admission.

I find his refusal to listen to experts, to take the advice to rest, to take the opportunity to rest and recharge, a pretty clear indication of how perhaps he is not always the best judge of a situation. Not my business obviously, but how must his wife feel? And why is he doing it? It is because he feels he needs to for himself. When professionals have clearly told him it is not. I will stop here.

I am prepared to speculate that everyone knows this dance is done. I will always respect and have a warm place for him should the departure happen, but he has to accept criticisms this season. I will also equally feel sorry for him and his loss; I'm prepared to speculate on this @braineclipse. IF Ventrone was still with us, Antonio would be recuperating. Put simply, and in my very personal view, the loss of his daily consiglieri turned the tide a long, long way.

Cheers for the clarification. I take no issue with your speculations as you express them in a very good way. I was just saying that I personally try not to do that as much.

I agree with everything you're saying in this post, I have previously appreciated the empathy you've expressed here and on the pod (listener to most episodes as I am).

What I disagreed with was "his current refusal to take a few weeks to properly recuperate is a hugely damning indictment of him (sadly)."

I much prefer the way you described it in this newer post. I don't think it's a damning indictment of him at all. It's a perfectly understandable human reaction. Though I obviously can't understand the details of what's going on with him, we can all understand that during periods of loss, increased stress and pressure, we're not always the best judge of our own situation. We make more mistakes, more errors in judgement.

For me that wish to understand, even though we can't understand all of it, should be a part of the empathy you called for. You're expressing that very thing in this clarifying post, to me at least "damming indictment of him" is (to some extent) the opposite.

I apologise if I'm coming across as harsh, or pedanticly sticking with a single sentence out of thousands of you've expressed here and on the pod. I do think we mostly agree. I think it's fair to criticise Conte and his actions.

 

[thfcsteff]

Cheers for the clarification. I take no issue with your speculations as you express them in a very good way. I was just saying that I personally try not to do that as much.

I agree with everything you're saying in this post, I have previously appreciated the empathy you've expressed here and on the pod (listener to most episodes as I am).

What I disagreed with was "his current refusal to take a few weeks to properly recuperate is a hugely damning indictment of him (sadly)."

I much prefer the way you described it in this newer post. I don't think it's a damning indictment of him at all. It's a perfectly understandable human reaction. Though I obviously can't understand the details of what's going on with him, we can all understand that during periods of loss, increased stress and pressure, we're not always the best judge of our own situation. We make more mistakes, more errors in judgement.

For me that wish to understand, even though we can't understand all of it, should be a part of the empathy you called for. You're expressing that very thing in this clarifying post, to me at least "damming indictment of him" is (to some extent) the opposite.

I apologise if I'm coming across as harsh, or pedanticly sticking with a single sentence out of thousands of you've expressed here and on the pod. I do think we mostly agree. I think it's fair to criticise Conte and his actions.

No no, all good, interesting conversation. I think it is possible to both empathize with someone and find some of their actions foolish. I think in this case there is a very binary issue; the man had surgery to remove his gall bladder, which requires x amount of recovery weeks, yet he is apparently choosing to ignore this.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Bunch of old women having a gossip about something they know nothing about.