Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[tommysvr]

Ange is the guy I would choose attractive attacking football
He has been successful at every club he been at. Still don't no how he won the Asian cup with that team.
Problem is some of our fanbase won't be happy with his appointment & he will not be given the time he will need to implement his ideas. Some will want a manager who will bring instant success & a big name

It's definitely a risk, and you only have to look at the Scottish press to see how he was received there. But going from Japan to Scotland is harder than Scotland to England I think. His football is also so captivating that despite bad results you can buy into it because you can actually see the goals and the progress. I think he could be another Poch for us.

 

[thfcsteff]

I really do think you've hit the tickle my balls with a feather here. There was a situation today with Bissouma holding with Doherty on a wide run and two players outside the middle, ready to attack the box. It was textbook. And there was a QE2-sized opening out wide. But Bissouma held, Doherty ran back and started on another run, still no ball. Bissouma MUST have seen both the runs and the opening, but it was like he was waiting for some other formation to form. So it ended in a Sissoko-type sideways passout which amounted to nothing. It was bizarre.

I saw that specific situation several times.

 

[braineclipse]

Since Conte came in we've signed Bentancur, Kulusevski, Perisic, Richarlison, Bissouma and Lenglet for the first team (counting Spence as one for the future).

That's 6 players, only one of them really a young player. Rest mid twenties, real experience, one older player. We've spent a good deal of money in the process, over two windows with no real outgoings.

If this isn't backing Conte I don't know what people expect.

In a way I think Conte is and has been right. He still needs more. One or two important players missing from the starting 11 and our level quickly becomes unacceptable. There's a real shortage of quality options.

But he has to take his share of the responsibility. He has been backed to a good degree. He needs to find solutions as well as demands for what he needs.

 

[braineclipse]

To be fair to Conte several experienced players are also letting us down. Lloris, Son, Dier. They need to take their share of the responsibility.

That clanger from Lloris against Villa was really costly. Son has been a shadow of the wonderful player he was/is. It puts us in the really difficult position of not being able to have an average game and get away with it. We're always under pressure. And instead of our more experienced players getting us out of a tough spot they put us in one.

 

[Gazza]

Tbf with Conte not sticking a new contract it gives weak minded players (we got plenty of them) an excuse to down tools. Apart from kulu and bentancur none of this mob have impressed.

Sign the contract Conte show some commitment and I'm sure you can shift the deadwood and reboot the team.

Doesn't help with the arse playing good football and getting results.

 

[braineclipse]

You may be right but for me central midfield is as much about the partnership as it is about the individual abilities/performances - that's why I'm loathe to write off Bissouma atm as i think whoever partners PEH is on to a loser.

Bentancur has been excellent next to PEH. Skipp has been really good next to PEH in the past.

No doubt PEH has been some way off his best in the two games, particularly the first half against Brentford. He may not be the easiest to play next to, or a particularly good match with Bissouma.

I don't see how that explains what Bissouma does with the ball at his feet with time on the ball.

 

[braineclipse]

This is one of his big flaws, Spence, Sarr & Gill could have been a lot more for us today if they had some playing time under their belt in first half of season.

You can't bitch about lack of depth when you are actually making the situation worse by not developing any depth options

We'll never know how Gil, Spence and Sarr would have developed had they gotten more game time. We'll never know how much they would have cost us in the process, if at all.

What he's currently doing with these players definitely isn't working so far though. And it's really difficult to see how it's supposed to work.

Positive sign that Gil got the start, Sarr came on. Spence on as a wide attacker with minutes to go, not so sure.

 

[billyiddo]

Bentancur has been excellent next to PEH. Skipp has been really good next to PEH in the past.

No doubt PEH has been some way off his best in the two games, particularly the first half against Brentford. He may not be the easiest to play next to, or a particularly good match with Bissouma.

I don't see how that explains what Bissouma does with the ball at his feet with time on the ball.

Individually good but not as a partnership- we always lose the midfield battle and my point is if the partnership doesn't work it's not always easy for the players to perform, some will, some won't and i think in a pair that works well together some players will improve individually. The one consistent for me is that the pair has never looked good and there's one player who has always been in there.

 

[Bishop]

I really do think you've hit the tickle my balls with a feather here. There was a situation today with Bissouma holding with Doherty on a wide run and two players outside the middle, ready to attack the box. It was textbook. And there was a QE2-sized opening out wide. But Bissouma held, Doherty ran back and started on another run, still no ball. Bissouma MUST have seen both the runs and the opening, but it was like he was waiting for some other formation to form. So it ended in a Sissoko-type sideways passout which amounted to nothing. It was bizarre.

Bissoi.a isn't a good passer and couldn't see the move nor execute the pass. I've been saying it for years now but our lack of passing ability in midfield is bloody glaring. Bentancur can see something at times but even he is hardly a pass master. We are all workrate and very little guile. The ball will continuously go sideways and backwards, it's just what these players are capable of.

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[harr1984]

Individually good but not as a partnership- we always lose the midfield battle and my point is if the partnership doesn't work it's not always easy for the players to perform, some will, some won't and i think in a pair that works well together some players will improve individually. The one consistent for me is that the pair has never looked good and there's one player who has always been in there.

Hmmm I know you don’t rate PEH and fair enough each to their own but I’d say the PEH/Bentancur has definitely performed well as a pair in some games at least. But as a wider point, I think the constant spacegoating (not aimed at you btw) is proving baseless. From what I’ve seen it’s Royal, Dier and PEH who have been the main targets for some time. Royal has been taken out, have we been much better creatively since? Nope. Don’t get me wrong Doherty is better going forward, but if there’s no Kulu there is no real difference what happens down that side. Take Eric Dier out of the defence and have we stopped conceding stupid goals or a less number of goals? Nope. So forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think taking out PEH is going to change anything either, we aren’t going to miraculously stop getting outnumbered in midfield and give him credit he is one of the few to step up with goals and assists. I think the problem is a much bigger one, no idea what mind you …..

 

[billyiddo]

Hmmm I know you don’t rate PEH and fair enough each to their own but I’d say the PEH/Bentancur has definitely performed well as a pair in some games at least. But as a wider point, I think the constant spacegoating (not aimed at you btw) is proving baseless. From what I’ve seen it’s Royal, Dier and PEH who have been the main targets for some time. Royal has been taken out, have we been much better creatively since? Nope. Don’t get me wrong Doherty is better going forward, but if there’s no Kulu there is no real difference what happens down that side. Take Eric Dier out of the defence and have we stopped conceding stupid goals or a less number of goals? Nope. So forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think taking out PEH is going to change anything either, we aren’t going to miraculously stop getting outnumbered in midfield and give him credit he is one of the few to step up with goals and assists. I think the problem is a much bigger one, no idea what mind you …..

Sample size bud and the fact that it's not spacegoating just critisism- replacing one player in the team for a game or two is never going to be a magic bullet by itself, especially when the remplacements in the squad are marginal improvements. Fwiw i think we're starting to look a lot more threatening down the right.

 

[braineclipse]

Individually good but not as a partnership- we always lose the midfield battle and my point is if the partnership doesn't work it's not always easy for the players to perform, some will, some won't and i think in a pair that works well together some players will improve individually. The one consistent for me is that the pair has never looked good and there's one player who has always been in there.

That Bentancur Hojbjerg partnership rightly got a lot of praise towards the end of last season. To the extent that we lost the midfield battle then it was with the benefit of having players elsewhere that could win other battles.

This season has been a different story. But much like a midfield partnership can improve the players involved having a well functioning team around the midfield can improve those midfielders.

 

[harr1984]

Sample size bud and the fact that it's not spacegoating just critisism- replacing one player in the team for a game or two is never going to be a magic bullet by itself, especially when the remplacements in the squad are marginal improvements. Fwiw i think we're starting to look a lot more threatening down the right.

Yeah I wasn’t saying you was spacegoating, was just making a bigger point and that’s exactly what I was meaning regarding the magic bullet. Doherty looks more threatening, but without Kulu I don’t think it really came to much yesterday? We really do need to make some moves this window, Gil didn’t do too bad but needs to beef up to make it in this league so a Kulu backup and a very good RWB would be great….

 

[AdamB]

We'll never know how Gil, Spence and Sarr would have developed had they gotten more game time. We'll never know how much they would have cost us in the process, if at all.

What he's currently doing with these players definitely isn't working so far though. And it's really difficult to see how it's supposed to work.

Positive sign that Gil got the start, Sarr came on. Spence on as a wide attacker with minutes to go, not so sure.

Yes, those 3 plus Skipp (who admittedly has had injuries) show the mis-match between the club's view of what the squad should look like and what Conte wants

Perhaps if we had say 18 quality senior players then those 3-4 might work to top the squad up to the right number but even then its difficult to see them getting game time under him. He just doesnt use young players

Feels like its better for them to be loaned out...but then again for that, we need more players to take their places on the bench

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Nothing you said wrong there, except my opinion is they are not scoring because of the tactics, not the players, e.g.

- Son isn't playing well with Perisic behind him
- Kane today sat up high, in the center the vast majority of the time, yet when the midfield had the chance to pass to him (or Gil) in central positions, they always chose wide (even when it made no sense), has to be orders (so we effectively took our best passer out of the game)
- I'm not saying play Kulu in 3-5-2, but if you don't have him, why play what is effectively 5-2-3?

The lack of flexibility/adaptability is killing us
- We could have played 4 at back today, could have played 3 in midfield (or 4), could have played 2 upfront
- Instead we played same old, same old without the only personnel who have made it work in 12+ months and got same old, same old result ..

We had to pass sideways because villa set up in a bank of 6 when defending and played 6-3-1 basically
You can’t pass through the middle there very easily

 

[braineclipse]

Yes, those 3 plus Skipp (who admittedly has had injuries) show the mis-match between the club's view of what the squad should look like and what Conte wants

Perhaps if we had say 18 quality senior players then those 3-4 might work to top the squad up to the right number but even then its difficult to see them getting game time under him. He just doesnt use young players

Feels like its better for them to be loaned out...but then again for that, we need more players to take their places on the bench

Both Gil and Sarr were signed before Conte took over. Sounded like we were willing to do loan deals if replacements could be found.

I think the mismatch between what Conte wants and what the club is doing gets overstated. While the mismatch of a squad we had before he took over gets understated.

With any manager taking over there would be significant issues. We're on our way towards sorting that out, but still quite a lot remains.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, those 3 plus Skipp (who admittedly has had injuries) show the mis-match between the club's view of what the squad should look like and what Conte wants

Perhaps if we had say 18 quality senior players then those 3-4 might work to top the squad up to the right number but even then its difficult to see them getting game time under him. He just doesnt use young players

Feels like its better for them to be loaned out...but then again for that, we need more players to take their places on the bench

He would never play them in that situation. If he can avoid playing players he does

 

[Bishop]

Hmmm I know you don’t rate PEH and fair enough each to their own but I’d say the PEH/Bentancur has definitely performed well as a pair in some games at least. But as a wider point, I think the constant spacegoating (not aimed at you btw) is proving baseless. From what I’ve seen it’s Royal, Dier and PEH who have been the main targets for some time. Royal has been taken out, have we been much better creatively since? Nope. Don’t get me wrong Doherty is better going forward, but if there’s no Kulu there is no real difference what happens down that side. Take Eric Dier out of the defence and have we stopped conceding stupid goals or a less number of goals? Nope. So forgive me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think taking out PEH is going to change anything either, we aren’t going to miraculously stop getting outnumbered in midfield and give him credit he is one of the few to step up with goals and assists. I think the problem is a much bigger one, no idea what mind you …..

You're on the right track. The problem isn't a singular player making all things brick. It's a combination of a number of below par players all at the same time.

The defense as a collective haven't been good enough in covering runs, in one on one situations and just making glaring stupid errors. They also as a collective very much lack the passing abilities required in a back 5 to compensate for the loss of an extra body in midfield.

The WBs, key component to Conte systems that haven't matched what he needs. That has felt quite self inflicted due to the selection of mainly Emerson and now Doherty. Neither are the answer and if Spence isn't trusted or rated we really don't have any good options on the right. On the left we've had a lot of Sess who has dissappinted. Doesn't dribble, never beats his man, poor crossing, his saving grace is he does have a good nose for being in the penalty box when theres a ball bouncing around. Peresic head been better but he plays like he's is 33 years old.

The midfield combinations have never been right. We've been outworked, out passed and pressed into submission in virtually every match. Individually the players have some merits but as pairings go, they don't offer enough range of attributes.

The attack has its problems as well. So like you say it's not a single player or lack of a single player causing the problems. It's a combination of all these ailments.



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[AdamB]

With any manager taking over there would be significant issues. We're on our way towards sorting that out, but still quite a lot remains.

I dont disagree that both pace and creativity are badly lacking in the squad. We neither have wingers nor decent wing backs

Some other criticisms over the squad are over-stated I feel though. For example, I don't think we're so bad that we should have conceded 2 in each of our last 7 games

 

[braineclipse]

I dont disagree that both pace and creativity are badly lacking in the squad. We neither have wingers nor decent wing backs

Some other criticisms over the squad are over-stated I feel though. For example, I don't think we're so bad that we should have conceded 2 in each of our last 7 games

Fully agreed. Probably boring people with this, but our strongest 11 is quite good imo. Remove a couple of players we don't have cover for and we're severely lacking balance and can become a bit of a mess.