Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[90291Spur]

Starting to see some of the “change in direction needed” stuff online and from mates of mine.

Hope we get a couple of results quickly. I know it’s been tough this season but we’d be mad to lose this fella.

Exactly. But he has a lot of work to do and the spurs job is like no other. He will have to dig deep to heal whatever needs healing at this club and get a fighting spirit established.

 

[DubaiSpur]

His playing style does him zero favours, and to be honest, it's self-inflicted to a certain extent.

We could have gone for Guimaraes last Jan. We didn't. We could have gone for a creative midfielder this summer. We didn't. We deliberately set up in a cloying style where players are not forced to be brave on the ball, and you really need to force this lot to be brave, because they are not 'naturally' brave.

I think he's a great coach and we'd be mad to sack him, but Poch got more with less than he's doing, simple fact.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

His playing style does him zero favours, and to be honest, it's self-inflicted to a certain extent.

We could have gone for Guimaraes last Jan. We didn't. We could have gone for a creative midfielder this summer. We didn't. We deliberately set up in a cloying style where players are not forced to be brave on the ball, and you really need to force this lot to be brave, because they are not 'naturally' brave.

I think he's a great coach and we'd be mad to sack him, but Poch got more with less than he's doing, simple fact.

Poch still won nothing with a better team. Poch had players at their peak that would walk into this team.

 

[harr1984]

His playing style does him zero favours, and to be honest, it's self-inflicted to a certain extent.

We could have gone for Guimaraes last Jan. We didn't. We could have gone for a creative midfielder this summer. We didn't. We deliberately set up in a cloying style where players are not forced to be brave on the ball, and you really need to force this lot to be brave, because they are not 'naturally' brave.

I think he's a great coach and we'd be mad to sack him, but Poch got more with less than he's doing, simple fact.

Agree with all of this, and it’s completely self inflicted because of how he is getting us to play. At the end of the day we are still 3rd, albeit having played a game more than some and just had a bad week of results - in isolation no big deal. But when we have been served up this dour football all season, the weeks where the results aren’t forthcoming everything is going to get magnified and blown up. We can all accept losses and the bad week here and there, but do expect a decent standard of football being played most of the time - especially at the ticket prices we have to pay…..

 

[DubaiSpur]

Poch still won nothing with a better team. Poch had players at their peak that would walk into this team.

And Conte has depth that Poch could only dream of. Yes, Poch had better players than this lot - Jan and Toby, Walker and Rose instead of the dual disasterclass of Sess and Royal, Wanyama and Dembele instead of Hojbjerg and Benta, Eriksen.

But we lost in the Poch years because we lacked depth - we played Son at left-back in an FA Cup semi where Chelsea brought on Fabregas, Costa and Hazard (iirc) and all we could throw on to respond was Vincent Janssen, the bargain-bin, luckless plodding wonder.

At its peak, this squad offers Conte the opportunity to throw on the likes of Bissouma, Richy and Perisic, with Biss and Richy alone costing about as much as that entire Poch side cost to assemble.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And Conte has depth that Poch could only dream of. Yes, Poch had better players than this lot - Jan and Toby, Walker and Rose instead of the dual disasterclass of Sess and Royal, Wanyama and Dembele instead of Hojbjerg and Benta, Eriksen.

But we lost in the Poch years because we lacked depth - we played Son at left-back in an FA Cup semi where Chelsea brought on Fabregas, Costa and Hazard (iirc) and all we could throw on to respond was Vincent Janssen, the bargain-bin, luckless plodding wonder.

At its peak, this squad offers Conte the opportunity to throw on the likes of Bissouma, Richy and Perisic, with Biss and Richy alone costing about as much as that entire Poch side cost to assemble.

Poch made massive mistakes
He made a huge mistake playing son left back that game
Playing Kane in the final … imagine him on the bench like hazard was that game
That was on Poch
Poch was so lucky he inherited Kane as it meant he didn’t need to sign a striker. That’s what helped financially in that era. You can’t compare fees now to then as the game has changed
Poch also had no plan B when he needed it at times
Maybe it’s why they are spurs managers

 

[DubaiSpur]

Poch made massive mistakes
He made a huge mistake playing son left back that game

He did, but he also didn't have a choice - both Rose and Davies were injured, I think? Either that or he wanted to fit Sonny into the side somehow. It was a mistake, but like with Conte, he'll plead circumstances outside his control.

Playing Kane in the final … imagine him on the bench like hazard was that game
That was on Poch

No manager in world football would have done differently - not one. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Conte. Look at how much Conte plays Kane now, ffs - we have Richy to play his exact role and he still plays every game.

Poch was so lucky he inherited Kane as it meant he didn’t need to sign a striker. That’s what helped financially in that era. You can’t compare fees now to then as the game has changed
Poch also had no plan B when he needed it at times
Maybe it’s why they are spurs managers

Agreed re: Kane, he's probably saved us 150m-200m in spending on brick strikers summer after summer in the time he's been here.

As for Poch and Conte having no Plan B, true, but saying that's why they're Spurs managers is harsh. There is almost no one higher in world football than Conte - Pep, maybe Klopp, maybe Simeone. So having someone in the top tier and possibly the world's third-best coach is no mean feat.

But Poch and him are basically at the same level, imo - except Poch did better with what he had than Conte is doing with what he has. He needs to do better - there's already gobby sh*tes on Talksport today talking about Conte needing to go, but if this continues, it won't just be them. The half-time boos were just the start, and Mourinho was gone eventually in similar circumstances.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He did, but he also didn't have a choice - both Rose and Davies were injured, I think? Either that or he wanted to fit Sonny into the side somehow. It was a mistake, but like with Conte, he'll plead circumstances outside his control.



No manager in world football would have done differently - not one. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Conte. Look at how much Conte plays Kane now, ffs - we have Richy to play his exact role and he still plays every game.



Agreed re: Kane, he's probably saved us 150m-200m in spending on brick strikers summer after summer in the time he's been here.

As for Poch and Conte having no Plan B, true, but saying that's why they're Spurs managers is harsh. There is almost no one higher in world football than Conte - Pep, maybe Klopp, maybe Simeone. So having someone in the top tier and possibly the world's third-best coach is no mean feat.

But Poch and him are basically at the same level, imo - except Poch did better with what he had than Conte is doing with what he has. He needs to do better - there's already gobby sh*tes on Talksport today talking about Conte needing to go, but if this continues, it won't just be them. The half-time boos were just the start, and Mourinho was gone eventually in similar circumstances.

Davies was on the bench
Conte literally did what you describe in that semi. He rested hazard and costa. He and them on the bench and brought them on. People always quote that example

 

[NLS]

Conte knows far more than me about football despite me being 10 years older than him...

He's played at a higher level, he's managed at a higher level and won major trophies at both...

So when he persists in playing two wing backs and 3 at the back he must know more than me... He must know that in such a system the two wing backs MUST be able to actually put the ball in the right position for an attacker to score...

However, he still plays Royal and Sessegnon as wing backs and they can can never ever produce the final ball... Several times they got in good positions today and never delivered as I knew they wouldn't...

If you haven't got the players to suit your system then change the f...ing system...

But no, it's Conte ball and he knows best.. He must do because he's won all those trophies...

I'm very fed up!

 

[DubaiSpur]

Davies was on the bench
Conte literally did what you describe in that semi. He rested hazard and costa. He and them on the bench and brought them on. People always quote that example

Fair enough - like I said, it was either Rose or Davies were unavailable, or he wanted to fit Sonny into the side and fudged up. It was a mistake, and he admitted it right after the game, iirc.

As for Conte though, it's because he could afford to do it, is my point. Poch never could - he had no one to bring on because we had no bench. You could say he should have benched Sonny and brought him on, but Chelsea would still have brought on three world class players to our one good player in that scenario - it isn't comparable.

As for Kane, like I said, he plays that game under every manager in world football. No one - no one - is benching Kane for Moura in a CL final, whatever the state of the two beforehand. Just the way it is, mate - Conte would 100% have done the same thing.

 

[Robspur12]

Fair enough - like I said, it was either Rose or Davies were unavailable, or he wanted to fit Sonny into the side and fudged up. It was a mistake, and he admitted it right after the game, iirc.

This article explains Poch's decisions around Davies and Son.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cartil...ng-min-left-back-tactical-rotation-ben-davies

 

[Robspur12]

I must admit I didn't think Conte would do well at Spurs because he's used to working at a higher level and spending more money than he would have here. But after finishing 4th last season I started to believe that I could be wrong. But some niggles still remain, in particular, we don't play well out of the press, and we play a double pivot without one of the DMs being creative. I really like him and one cannot deny his class but I just wonder how long he will remain.

 

[Robspur12]

And Conte has depth that Poch could only dream of. Yes, Poch had better players than this lot - Jan and Toby, Walker and Rose instead of the dual disasterclass of Sess and Royal, Wanyama and Dembele instead of Hojbjerg and Benta, Eriksen.

But we lost in the Poch years because we lacked depth - we played Son at left-back in an FA Cup semi where Chelsea brought on Fabregas, Costa and Hazard (iirc) and all we could throw on to respond was Vincent Janssen, the bargain-bin, luckless plodding wonder.

At its peak, this squad offers Conte the opportunity to throw on the likes of Bissouma, Richy and Perisic, with Biss and Richy alone costing about as much as that entire Poch side cost to assemble.

Bentancur is a better player than Wanyama.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair enough - like I said, it was either Rose or Davies were unavailable, or he wanted to fit Sonny into the side and fudged up. It was a mistake, and he admitted it right after the game, iirc.

As for Conte though, it's because he could afford to do it, is my point. Poch never could - he had no one to bring on because we had no bench. You could say he should have benched Sonny and brought him on, but Chelsea would still have brought on three world class players to our one good player in that scenario - it isn't comparable.

As for Kane, like I said, he plays that game under every manager in world football. No one - no one - is benching Kane for Moura in a CL final, whatever the state of the two beforehand. Just the way it is, mate - Conte would 100% have done the same thing.

Poch had options
Again fans forget them
Poch had kids I’d things go his way and plenty that didnt. He also made mistakes. Chelsea started a weaker line up that semi by the way. We had the better first 11

 

[Robspur12]

And Conte has depth that Poch could only dream of. Yes, Poch had better players than this lot - Jan and Toby, Walker and Rose instead of the dual disasterclass of Sess and Royal, Wanyama and Dembele instead of Hojbjerg and Benta, Eriksen.

But we lost in the Poch years because we lacked depth - we played Son at left-back in an FA Cup semi where Chelsea brought on Fabregas, Costa and Hazard (iirc) and all we could throw on to respond was Vincent Janssen, the bargain-bin, luckless plodding wonder.

At its peak, this squad offers Conte the opportunity to throw on the likes of Bissouma, Richy and Perisic, with Biss and Richy alone costing about as much as that entire Poch side cost to assemble.

I don't want to make this a Poch vs Conte thread. But whenever a Poch detractor comes on (and I certainly don't mean you) they say that Poch had the best players and the squad they name is rightly the 16/17 one. They then forget he basically had that squad for one season! At other times he had winks and sissoko, moura, dele, Aurier and a lesser Rose. He still managed to get us qualified for the Champions League and to the final of that competition. So I agree he got more with less than we have now.

 

[Grays_1890]

I don't want to make this a Poch vs Conte thread. But whenever a Poch detractor comes on (and I certainly don't mean you) they say that Poch had the best players and the squad they name is rightly the 16/17 one. They then forget he basically had that squad for one season! At other times he had winks and sissoko, moura dele Aurier and a lesser Rose. He still managed to get us qualified for the Champions League and to the final of that competition. So I agree he got more with less than we have now.

Exactly this, people confuse the team they become with what they were to start, anyone thinking the like of Toby, an Ajax reject from Southampton was a great player would be lying, I remember people saying at the time we knew nothing of him, Dembele never hit the heights he did before Poch, he became a beast.

Let just be frank, what Poch did over a couple of years was phenomenal, thats the long and short of it

 

[Dicko]

Exactly this, people confuse the team they become with what they were to start, anyone thinking the like of Toby, an Ajax reject from Southampton was a great player would be lying, I remember people saying at the time we knew nothing of him, Dembele never hit the heights he did before Poch, he became a beast.

Let just be frank, what Poch did over a couple of years was phenomenal, thats the long and short of it

Apparently our scouts rejected Toby from A.Madrid as they thought he was poor in one on one's and was beaten too easily (Or something like that). A year or so later it came coming up on here when we were back in for him

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Exactly this, people confuse the team they become with what they were to start, anyone thinking the like of Toby, an Ajax reject from Southampton was a great player would be lying, I remember people saying at the time we knew nothing of him, Dembele never hit the heights he did before Poch, he became a beast.

Let just be frank, what Poch did over a couple of years was phenomenal, thats the long and short of it

Toby made the champions league team at atletico didn’t and win the league there didn’t he?
i mean I said he was crap before we signed him as he never shined at Southampton yet I was rightly out done by plenty on here

 

[Grays_1890]

Toby made the champions league team at atletico didn’t and win the league there didn’t he?
i mean I said he was crap before we signed him as he never shined at Southampton yet I was rightly out done by plenty on here

So he played in the CL and won the league with Ajax? Thats not the point, he was at Southampton, no one really had an idea of how good he was and he was never the player he turned into under Poch thats a fact regardless of what came before.

Poch improved us collectively and in many places individually thats just a fact regardless if we fell at the final hurdles, that team pushed all the way and lets not make out we went out and signed ready made names that made it happen

 

[billyiddo]

Toby made the champions league team at atletico didn’t and win the league there didn’t he?
i mean I said he was crap before we signed him as he never shined at Southampton yet I was rightly out done by plenty on here

No that was the season he was on loan at Southampton