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Transfer speculation

Gutter Boy said:
Pleased to see the bit which I've bolded - I think we need 1 or 2 additions
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I'm not sure whether that was an attempt at humour however the bit which you've bolded isnt mutually exclusive from the bit which I had bolded immediately above yours....and the fact that he said the two bits within second of each other shows that they're not.

There's no reason why someone can't believe in the squad but also think it needs a few additions....and what do you expect him to say 'the squad is brick in some areas, wafer thin and I need a few players to patch it up'???
 
AdamB said:
I'm not sure whether that was an attempt at humour however the bit which you've bolded isnt mutually exclusive from the bit which I had bolded immediately above yours....and the fact that he said the two bits within second of each other shows that they're not.

There's no reason why someone can't believe in the squad but also think it needs a few additions....and what do you expect him to say 'the squad is brick in some areas, wafer thin and I need a few players to patch it up'???
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If we back the promotion of KWP, Edwards and Onomah, and bring in 3-4 more, that means we'd need to ship out 5 or 6. I just don't think there's any appetite/point in such churn.
 
Dr Rosenrosen said:
Liverpool reject £72m Barcelona bid for Philippe Coutinho: ‘we aren’t a selling club’

://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jul/21/liverpool-reject-philippe-coutinho-barcelona-bid
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giphy.gif
 
Gutter Boy said:
If we back the promotion of KWP, Edwards and Onomah, and bring in 3-4 more, that means we'd need to ship out 5 or 6. I just don't think there's any appetite/point in such churn.
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I dont think thats right at all. Based on us playing 3-5-2:

GK (need 2 snr): Lloris plus [Vorm/Lopez - who cares??]
RB (need 2): Trippier 1 ADDITION NEEDED (net zero)
LB (need 2): Rose, Davies
CB (need 4-5*): Alder, Vert, Wimmer, 1-2 ADDITIONS NEEDED
DM (need 2): Dier, Wanyama,
AM (need 2): Dembele, Winks
'Attackers' (need 6**): Dele, Eriksen, Lamela, Son, 2 ADDITIONS NEEDED
CF (need 2): Kane, Janssen

So sell Sissoko, loan out GKN. Use CCV, KWP, Onomah as squad fillers. That's 3-4 net additions needed

*on the basis that Dier will play DM sometimes (his best position) and 3 at the back is our preferred formation
** need 6 on the basis that Son will sometimes play up top, Barkely/Eriksen/Dele might sometimes play CM
 
AdamB said:
I dont think they should be higher than that - they haven't contributed anything to suggest that they'll make it. Contrast that with Winks
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This perfectly highlights the issue that I'm having this summer. Nobody would have said that about Winks this time last year. If you did, you'd be laughed at. The only reason he is where he is today, is because he got thrown in there last season. If we buy new players (even, quite good players), you are going to lose that pathway for the next Winks to come into the team.

If you buy Barkley for the Dembele role, you cut off Onomah. If you buy Pereira, you cut off KWP. If you buy Mawson, you cut off CCV. As fans, we don't see these players in training, so it's so tough to tell who is really cut out for the first team. But I refuse to judge young players in 10-minute cameos, especially when they are played totally out of position like Onomah. It's actually one of the exact things I hated so much about Sissoko's signing when it happened. He's not clearly better than any of our young players, and all he did was take minutes away fro them.

The one that's toughest for me to gauge is what to do at right back. Poch obviously highly rates KWP, but if you buy another guy, I don't see where he's gonna get the minutes he needs. He's 20, so he's not super young anymore, but I do feel uncomfortable going into the season with Trippier as our only established right back.

These are the hard decisions that Poch and co. get paid brickloads of money to make, I guess. Curious to see what he ends up doing.
 
SpurSF said:
This perfectly highlights the issue that I'm having this summer. Nobody would have said that about Winks this time last year. If you did, you'd be laughed at. The only reason he is where he is today, is because he got thrown in there last season. If we buy new players (even, quite good players), you are going to lose that pathway for the next Winks to come into the team.

If you buy Barkley for the Dembele role, you cut off Onomah. If you buy Pereira, you cut off KWP. If you buy Mawson, you cut off CCV. As fans, we don't see these players in training, so it's so tough to tell who is really cut out for the first team. But I refuse to judge young players in 10-minute cameos, especially when they are played totally out of position like Onomah. It's actually one of the exact things I hated so much about Sissoko's signing when it happened. He's not clearly better than any of our young players, and all he did was take minutes away fro them.

The one that's toughest for me to gauge is what to do at right back. Poch obviously highly rates KWP, but if you buy another guy, I don't see where he's gonna get the minutes he needs. He's 20, so he's not super young anymore, but I do feel uncomfortable going into the season with Trippier as our only established right back.

These are the hard decisions that Poch and co. get paid brickloads of money to make, I guess. Curious to see what he ends up doing.
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The only thing about cameos is that expectations are low and by the time you've had 15-20 of them like Onomah, you'd have hoped to at least seen some glimpse of coming to terms with mens football. I do take your point though about not seeing them in training like Poch does, however part of me thinks that whilst Poch has used young players, part of this is simply due to him being forced to do so given that we can't spend as much as others at the moment because of the stadium. I dont believe for a minute that Poch would rather use Onomah and CCV than, for example, a couple emerging 23 year olds who were on the fringe of their national teams.

RB is a difficult one, but personally I'd bring someone in there. KWP will still get a number of games as well as U21 games, Checkatrade games etc
 
AdamB said:
I dont think they should be higher than that - they haven't contributed anything to suggest that they'll make it. Contrast that with Winks
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Onomah has not been played in his best position yet and CCV has barely played.

I can not say they will make it or not but lets give the lads a chance to show it and also trust Poch and his judgement which with young players is the best I have seen since Wenger in the 90s.
 
SpurSF said:
This perfectly highlights the issue that I'm having this summer. Nobody would have said that about Winks this time last year. If you did, you'd be laughed at. The only reason he is where he is today, is because he got thrown in there last season. If we buy new players (even, quite good players), you are going to lose that pathway for the next Winks to come into the team.

If you buy Barkley for the Dembele role, you cut off Onomah. If you buy Pereira, you cut off KWP. If you buy Mawson, you cut off CCV. As fans, we don't see these players in training, so it's so tough to tell who is really cut out for the first team. But I refuse to judge young players in 10-minute cameos, especially when they are played totally out of position like Onomah. It's actually one of the exact things I hated so much about Sissoko's signing when it happened. He's not clearly better than any of our young players, and all he did was take minutes away fro them.

The one that's toughest for me to gauge is what to do at right back. Poch obviously highly rates KWP, but if you buy another guy, I don't see where he's gonna get the minutes he needs. He's 20, so he's not super young anymore, but I do feel uncomfortable going into the season with Trippier as our only established right back.

These are the hard decisions that Poch and co. get paid brickloads of money to make, I guess. Curious to see what he ends up doing.
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Pretty much what I have been thinking word for word. Also worth our apparent lack of interest in a striker means Poch must rate Sterling quite highly because if he really wanted King then I am sure he would have preferred him to go on the pre season trip to America with the rest of the squad.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Pretty much what I have been thinking word for word. Also worth our apparent lack of interest in a striker means Poch must rate Sterling quite highly because if he really wanted King then I am sure he would have preferred him to go on the pre season trip to America with the rest of the squad.
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You could apply that logic about any signing though. We know money is tight and will be trying to make sure we dont waste a penny - hence the Barkley saga dragging on
 
AdamB said:
You could apply that logic about any signing though. We know money is tight and will be trying to make sure we dont waste a penny - hence the Barkley saga dragging on
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The one I am scared of is Mahrez, if we sign him right at the end of the window then it is like we have not learn the sissoko lesson at all.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Onomah has not been played in his best position yet and CCV has barely played.
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This. As good as Winks was, he was playing in his right position, as a part of a well-functioning team. If he would have played as a winger in a changed team, there's no way he'd look as great as he has.

Also, remember that Winks is a year older than Onomah. I might be wrong about this, but if Josh gets a run of games in his proper position, he'll be looked at like Winks is, this time next year.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Onomah has not been played in his best position yet and CCV has barely played.

I can not say they will make it or not but lets give the lads a chance to show it and also trust Poch and his judgement which with young players is the best I have seen since Wenger in the 90s.
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Onomah's best position is pushing around lightweight underage South Korean, Costa Rican, Mexican and Venezulan kids. He needs to learn how to play when he doesn't have a physical advantage.
 
AdamB said:
The only thing about cameos is that expectations are low and by the time you've had 15-20 of them like Onomah, you'd have hoped to at least seen some glimpse of coming to terms with mens football. I do take your point though about not seeing them in training like Poch does, however part of me thinks that whilst Poch has used young players, part of this is simply due to him being forced to do so given that we can't spend as much as others at the moment because of the stadium. I dont believe for a minute that Poch would rather use Onomah and CCV than, for example, a couple emerging 23 year olds who were on the fringe of their national teams.

RB is a difficult one, but personally I'd bring someone in there. KWP will still get a number of games as well as U21 games, Checkatrade games etc
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According to whoscored.com Onomah has 96 minutes of PL football under his belt. Had Winks been given similar during the season before last I'm not sure he would have looked particularly good.

I really think his cameos so far has been more about giving him a taste. If/when he's ready well see him involved more like Winks was last season.
 
SpurSF said:
This perfectly highlights the issue that I'm having this summer. Nobody would have said that about Winks this time last year. If you did, you'd be laughed at. The only reason he is where he is today, is because he got thrown in there last season. If we buy new players (even, quite good players), you are going to lose that pathway for the next Winks to come into the team.

If you buy Barkley for the Dembele role, you cut off Onomah. If you buy Pereira, you cut off KWP. If you buy Mawson, you cut off CCV. As fans, we don't see these players in training, so it's so tough to tell who is really cut out for the first team. But I refuse to judge young players in 10-minute cameos, especially when they are played totally out of position like Onomah. It's actually one of the exact things I hated so much about Sissoko's signing when it happened. He's not clearly better than any of our young players, and all he did was take minutes away fro them.

The one that's toughest for me to gauge is what to do at right back. Poch obviously highly rates KWP, but if you buy another guy, I don't see where he's gonna get the minutes he needs. He's 20, so he's not super young anymore, but I do feel uncomfortable going into the season with Trippier as our only established right back.

These are the hard decisions that Poch and co. get paid brickloads of money to make, I guess. Curious to see what he ends up doing.
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So, I think Barkley is a very, very important signing if we can make it happen. He will keep several on their toes (Dembele obviously, Eriksen too IMO), he is a great rotation option plus he is a great bench option. I can see Barkley and Winks playing together in certain competitions. Onomah could well end up phasing into things nicely if the Moose is hurt, and I must agree, he has always been played but of his best position. Dier will be the right-back cover in a 4-2-3-1 if need be. I think we will see a signing depending on how KWP does pre-season. The Sissoko signing has, I believe, had a massive e effect on what we do in the market. On paper he was a player who should've given us a lot for our system (i.e. pace and power) when the reality is he was mentally fragile.
 
AdamB said:
I dont think thats right at all. Based on us playing 3-5-2:

GK (need 2 snr): Lloris plus [Vorm/Lopez - who cares??]
RB (need 2): Trippier 1 ADDITION NEEDED (net zero)
LB (need 2): Rose, Davies
CB (need 4-5*): Alder, Vert, Wimmer, 1-2 ADDITIONS NEEDED
DM (need 2): Dier, Wanyama,
AM (need 2): Dembele, Winks
'Attackers' (need 6**): Dele, Eriksen, Lamela, Son, 2 ADDITIONS NEEDED
CF (need 2): Kane, Janssen

So sell Sissoko, loan out GKN. Use CCV, KWP, Onomah as squad fillers. That's 3-4 net additions needed

*on the basis that Dier will play DM sometimes (his best position) and 3 at the back is our preferred formation
** need 6 on the basis that Son will sometimes play up top, Barkely/Eriksen/Dele might sometimes play CM
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Assume tactical flexibility as a strength and something giving us options. Rather than assuming at the same time that we need 4-5 centre backs excluding Dier and 6 attacking midfielders. Add in CCV and Onomah. Include Nkoudou.

A right back and a replacement for Sissoko in attacking midfield. Assuming we're not trusting KWP and making Nkoudou 6th of the attacking midfielders we play 3 or 2 of at the same time. If Nkoudou isn't rated replace him to making it 3 signings, but probably one of the attacking midfielders as a younger lower profile signing. Wimmer leaving would probably mean one more signing unless we're feeling very confident about both CCV and Onomah (seems unlikely to me).

That to me seems much more in line with what Pochettino has done so far with us. A strategy he's been very successful with.
 
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