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Timo Werner

Jurgen the German said:
Occupying defenders and pulling them out of position is the absolute bare minimum i’d expect from a PL level forward
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Yes that’s true. Also working hard is a minimum requirement. These skills tend to be undervalued. So many players struggle to do these on a consistent basis. In some of our early season games, people were just sort of standing around not doing anything. Also not working hard enough to get back when we turned the ball over. Absence of these skills has cost us points this season
 
RunTMC said:
We’re scoring 2 goals a game on average in the league. If we were to drop points I believe poor defending would be way more of a factor than Werner’s finishing
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We scored 0 against Arsenal, and only 1 Vs Leicester and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. All games we dropped points in that our fans will claim we dominated and should have won.

The average of goal scoring is less important than the actual amount of games we score in and timing of those goals.
 
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DubSpur said:
Easier to blame just one player, if he's sorted then all are problems are gone.
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This is such a defeatist attitude. It's not about blaming any one player it's about addressing your weakest aspects, improving upon them and then moving on to your next weakest element. That's how you improve your overall quality by fixing the weakest parts.

So no there will never be a time when something can not be improved upon and we should never accept the idea that what we have is enough, because it never will be. Not even if we are winning every competition we enter. We will need constant improvement on the macro details to keep ahead of the curve.

As it is we are trying to catch up so we absolutely can not afford to settle for ok or decent. That is not how winners actually go about the business of winning.
 
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Bishop said:
This is such a defeatist attitude. It's not about blaming any one player it's about addressing your weakest aspects, improving upon them and then moving on to your next weakest element. That's how you improve your overall quality by fixing the weakest parts.

So no there will never be a time when something can not be improved upon and we should never accept the idea that what we have is enough, because it never will be. Not even if we are winning every competition we enter. We will need to constant improvement on the macro details to keep ahead of the curve.

As it is we are trying to catch up so we absolutely can not afford to settle for ok or decent. That is not how winners actually go about the business of winning.
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Absolutely. All about progression.

Ange is not gonna throw players under. And he wants the players we have. We all want the same outcome.
Commenting on players performance and discussions doesn't has to be vile. And each of us all have a player who thinks can do better.

Teams who win upgrade all the time.
 
Mrs Vert said:
Absolutely. All about progression.

Ange is not gonna throw players under. And he wants the players we have. We all want the same outcome.
Commenting on players performance and discussions doesn't has to be vile. And each of us all have a player who thinks can do better.

Teams who win upgrade all the time.
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No one can argue with progression
But it also takes time
No one who wins things does it quickly now … mainly because city are here and win everything a,though it’s always possible to win a cup even if your brick
 
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Bishop said:
This is such a defeatist attitude. It's not about blaming any one player it's about addressing your weakest aspects, improving upon them and then moving on to your next weakest element. That's how you improve your overall quality by fixing the weakest parts.

So no there will never be a time when something can not be improved upon and we should never accept the idea that what we have is enough, because it never will be. Not even if we are winning every competition we enter. We will need constant improvement on the macro details to keep ahead of the curve.

As it is we are trying to catch up so we absolutely can not afford to settle for ok or decent. That is not how winners actually go about the business of winning.
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Only issue with that is it has nothing to do with what was being discussed.
 
Bishop said:
This is such a defeatist attitude. It's not about blaming any one player it's about addressing your weakest aspects, improving upon them and then moving on to your next weakest element. That's how you improve your overall quality by fixing the weakest parts.

So no there will never be a time when something can not be improved upon and we should never accept the idea that what we have is enough, because it never will be. Not even if we are winning every competition we enter. We will need constant improvement on the macro details to keep ahead of the curve.

As it is we are trying to catch up so we absolutely can not afford to settle for ok or decent. That is not how winners actually go about the business of winning.
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Constant improvement suggests constant impairment. That is especially true if you are constantly changing personnel because other deficiencies start to grow as players effectiveness is an aggregate of their unique set of strengths and weaknesses.

Also, integrating new players takes time introducing temporary performance impairments.

In evolutionary terms I prefer punctuated equilibrium - rapid fundamental change in response to changing external conditions- as opposed to the internal drive for perfection.

So you give players time to settle into the system.
 
Bishop said:
We scored 0 against Arsenal, and only 1 Vs Leicester and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. All games we dropped points in that our fans will claim we dominated and should have won.

The average of goal scoring is less important than the actual amount of games we score in and timing of those goals.
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Fair points. However I still believe that over the course of the season if we were to drop points that cost us 4th, poor defending would be more of a factor than Werner’s finishing
 
Werner could cost us top 4? Fudge me:rolleyes: It's a collective, if we drop points far more has gone wrong than just Werner. Yes he misses chances. So has Son, who's to say his misses won't cost us top 4? Or the fact he doesn't make runs to get the goalscoring chances Werner does in the first place? Or all our other forwards who have missed plenty of chances to score?

The thirst to over exaggerate a player they don't rate misgivings is incredible sometimes, Werner isn't Bale but is a decent level squad player for us who wouldn't of been invited back if Ange didn't like what he added to the team.....
 
harr1984 said:
Werner could cost us top 4? Fudge me:rolleyes: It's a collective, if we drop points far more has gone wrong than just Werner. Yes he misses chances. So has Son, who's to say his misses won't cost us top 4? Or the fact he doesn't make runs to get the goalscoring chances Werner does in the first place? Or all our other forwards who have missed plenty of chances to score?

The thirst to over exaggerate a player they don't rate misgivings is incredible sometimes, Werner isn't Bale but is a decent level squad player for us who wouldn't of been invited back if Ange didn't like what he added to the team.....
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Top post.

In our recent run with Odobert, Richarlison and then Son out would we have been better off not having Werner?

And on the other hand if whatever player we could have loaned or signed for that role that would have been better than Werner it probably would have meant not signing Odobert for example. Would that have left us better of over time?

That being said I really hope he can find some semblance of confidence in front of goal at some point.
 
harr1984 said:
Werner could cost us top 4? Fudge me:rolleyes: It's a collective, if we drop points far more has gone wrong than just Werner. Yes he misses chances. So has Son, who's to say his misses won't cost us top 4? Or the fact he doesn't make runs to get the goalscoring chances Werner does in the first place? Or all our other forwards who have missed plenty of chances to score?

The thirst to over exaggerate a player they don't rate misgivings is incredible sometimes, Werner isn't Bale but is a decent level squad player for us who wouldn't of been invited back if Ange didn't like what he added to the team.....
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Not on his own, but collectively if we have too many substandard players, that makes it difficult to finish in the top 4. I guess I’m still a bit perplexed by the positive reaction when we re-loaned him. My original view hasn’t changed, don’t be surprised if we don’t win anything or don’t finish in the top 4. The comments about him “occupying space/defenders” reminds me so much of the debates that swirled around Adebayor when he was in an awful run of form and rather than admit he wasn’t playing well, people just doubled down.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Not on his own, but collectively if we have too many substandard players, that makes it difficult to finish in the top 4. I guess I’m still a bit perplexed by the positive reaction when we re-loaned him. My original view hasn’t changed, don’t be surprised if we don’t win anything or don’t finish in the top 4. The comments about him “occupying space/defenders” reminds me so much of the debates that swirled around Adebayor when he was in an awful run of form and rather than admit he wasn’t playing well, people just doubled down.
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But no one who was happy we resigned him said he was anything other than a squad player
That’s the key
He is just that
Probably our 4th choice left wing but because of injuries he is starting games
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But no one who was happy we resigned him said he was anything other than a squad player
That’s the key
He is just that
Probably our 4th choice left wing but because of injuries he is starting games
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3rd choice for me so far behind Son and Odobert, but Odobert can also play elsewhere.

Otherwise fully agreed. Hasn't really seen anyone thinking that we resigned him as anything other than a squad option.
 
metalgear said:
Watch out...
View attachment 17775
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No, no he is not and it is this kind of thing that will end up being the down fall of Ange.

And I don;t want Ange to leave as I think he is a great guy and wants to play football the right way, I know he likes to look after the players, but at some point you have got to stop burying your in the sand and living in denial.

This club will never progress until the we address the elephants standing in the room and Timo is one of them. I don't hate the fella, I think he is a great guy, he is lacking in so many areas. Brighton's Japanese winger Mitoma is the kind of player we need at the club, he tore chunks out of us...
I jut don't understand why we got Timo, but he is a great example of why we don;t win anything.
 
braineclipse said:
He is an option there for sure, just that for me he's behind Werner at this moment at least.

Could very well be proven wrong on this at some point of course.
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Yeah we shall see

What we can all agree in is that we’re was not signed to be a regaulrly starter in the opinion of most fans

Hence why some were happy to have him as a squad option providing we signed another winger..l Which we did with Oderbert
 
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