Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

At least others have been willing to agree that the "lack of pressure" for Rodgers was relative, you keep hammering on it.

I repeat, Benitez sacked in 2010, Hodgson in 2011, Dalglish in 2012. Somehow Rodgers takes over in 2012 with a "lack of pressure". I don't buy it at all.

To me it looks a better explanation to say that despite the obvious pressure Rodgers managed to keep a focus on long term improvement in play - particularly attacking play whereas AVB didn't handle the pressure all that well. He came out with the worst of both, no CL qualification and no improvement in attacking play. And when he tried again he failed for half a season to get proper significant attacking play going even against teams that would have been strengthened even by the idea of once having had the chance to sell Gareth Bale. It's not that we didn't outplay and beat City (that would be much to expect), it's that we consistently week in and week out came up against teams who were worse than us player for player and we couldn't create chances.

What do you think is more difficult? To finish 7th with the squad they had and the budget they had or to finish 4th ahead of a Chelsea that had gotten their act together, an Arsenal that never fail to get there, a United under Fergie and a City with oil money?

AVB had the much more difficult task, ergo more pressure. I think to keep saying 'despite the pressure' about Rodgers is nonsense. His only pressure was to maintain status quo. To attain the bare minimum. Benitez was sacked having taken them from 2nd to 7th. Hodgson had them near the bottom of the league. Dalglish had them 8th. Rodgers was in a position where he could make the relatively simple jump from 8th to 7th and as long as he showed evidence of a system of play it would constitute an improvement.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Billy....i know you're not claiming i'm "clutching at straws" after reading this right?:lol:

CAN YOU NOT TELL THE SARCASM IN MY POST GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

Come on man I even said 'In all seriousness though', and then admitted in a post down from that, that I was indeed wrong. It doesn't actually undo the original argument which was that using a 7th placed Liverpool as a bastion of quality winning football and comparing them to a Spurs side that could have finished level on points with third is just not valid.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You can repeat it 10000000000 times mate...it will do no good at all.

because it bares little relevance to the discussion at hand id have thought

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Im not BOL and i never said anything about being in with a chance of 3rd last season so it's not my debate.

If you guys want to get that precious about semantics then im not particularly interested in going any further tbh - and in all honesty it's not really the main point of the debate we're having and im sure it was said in jest initially.

You're obviously not him, but KD was comparing his statement to our current situation...

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

you're obviously not him, but kd was comparing his statement to our current situation...

arrrrrrrrrrrghghghghghghghggggggggiheviuvbguivgyvyive!!!!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

no he's already said it wasn't.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You're obviously not him, but KD was comparing his statement to our current situation...

KD initially brought up Sherwood and his apparent top 4 challenge in response to one of my earlier posts. he was saying that Sherwood has done enough to keep the job as he has provided a top 4 challenge - which had nothing to do with what BoL had posted, unless i am mistaken?

anyway i don't believe KD actually thinks Sherwood has provided a top 4 challenge, nor do i think he believes he should get the job long term - it was merely a flippant remark that has had far too much attention paid to it :lol:

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

KD initially brought up Sherwood and his apparent top 4 challenge in response to one of my earlier posts. he was saying that Sherwood has done enough to keep the job as he has provided a top 4 challenge - which had nothing to do with what BoL had posted, unless i am mistaken?

anyway i don't believe KD actually thinks Sherwood has provided a top 4 challenge, nor do i think he believes he should get the job long term - it was merely a flippant remark that has had far too much attention paid to it :lol:

Because I mistakenly made out we had anything more than the longest of shots at third last season it's apparently been seized upon to give credence to the idea that we can still say Sherwood has provided a top 4 challenge. Despite the fact that the point I was making was that we were seriously far ahead of Liverpool last season and saying 'we had a shot at third' or 'we could have been level with third on the final day' doesn't alter that point.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

arrrrrrrrrrrghghghghghghghggggggggiheviuvbguivgyvyive!!!!

I'll respectfully bow out of this particular discussion with you.

Not my intentions or my wish to add to the frustration of a fellow fan in what has surely been a difficult enough season.

I sincerely look forward to our optimistic talks about how brilliantly our new signings will work out come the summer under HnS ("Hopefully-not-Sherwood")

KD initially brought up Sherwood and his apparent top 4 challenge in response to one of my earlier posts. he was saying that Sherwood has done enough to keep the job as he has provided a top 4 challenge - which had nothing to do with what BoL had posted, unless i am mistaken?

anyway i don't believe KD actually thinks Sherwood has provided a top 4 challenge, nor do i think he believes he should get the job long term

And KD laughingly compared a current "Sherwood top 4 challenge" to our last day, "16 goal swing needed third place challenge". Neither is/was ever going to happen and the comparison seemed fine to me.

With you too though I will respectfully bow out. I'm reminded now why I went missing for a while, these dragged out conversations that go back to our previous manager and beyond just don't fill me with any joy even though I do find some of the topics interesting in isolation others find other details more interesting and convincing and before you know it the conversation is about as frustrating as discussing Hoddle's utilization of Poyet and the long term ramifications for Zokora under Ramos.

I cannot wait for HnS, I cannot wait for this dreadful season to be over.

I also think and hope my participation in discussions on this forum will be less "arrrrrrrrrrrghghghghghghghggggggggiheviuvbguivgyvyive-inducing" and more smiley provoking at that not all too distant point.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'll respectfully bow out of this particular discussion with you.

Not my intentions or my wish to add to the frustration of a fellow fan in what has surely been a difficult enough season.

I sincerely look forward to our optimistic talks about how brilliantly our new signings will work out come the summer under HnS ("Hopefully-not-Sherwood")



And KD laughingly compared a current "Sherwood top 4 challenge" to our last day, "16 goal swing needed third place challenge". Neither is/was ever going to happen and the comparison seemed fine to me.

With you too though I will respectfully bow out. I'm reminded now why I went missing for a while, these dragged out conversations that go back to our previous manager and beyond just don't fill me with any joy even though I do find some of the topics interesting in isolation others find other details more interesting and convincing and before you know it the conversation is about as frustrating as discussing Hoddle's utilization of Poyet and the long term ramifications for Zokora under Ramos.

I cannot wait for HnS, I cannot wait for this dreadful season to be over.

I also think and hope my participation in discussions on this forum will be less "arrrrrrrrrrrghghghghghghghggggggggiheviuvbguivgyvyive-inducing" and more smiley provoking at that not all too distant point.

The keyboard bashing was done to demonstrate the frustration that a flippant remark that I had already admitted I was wrong on was being used to give credance to a different argument that was in no way centred on reality. No need to bow out over that.

As I said, ''Because I mistakenly made out we had anything more than the longest of shots at third last season it's apparently been seized upon to give credence to the idea that we can still say Sherwood has provided a top 4 challenge. Despite the fact that the point I was making was that we were seriously far ahead of Liverpool last season and saying 'we had a shot at third' or 'we could have been level with third on the final day' doesn't alter that point.''

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

a shame you feel that way Braineclipse - always enjoy reading your opinions.

Ive generally tried to avoid the Sherwood discussions seemingly for the same reasons as you. however i don't mind talking about previous managers in context (and see no reason why a AVB vs Rodgers debate can't take place - i think it's actually been pretty good chat ) and don't forget you joined this discussion so i guess that makes you a bit of a glutton for punishment

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Oh snap.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The keyboard bashing was done to demonstrate the frustration that a flippant remark that I had already admitted I was wrong on was being used to give credance to a different argument that was in no way centred on reality. No need to bow out over that.

As I said, ''Because I mistakenly made out we had anything more than the longest of shots at third last season it's apparently been seized upon to give credence to the idea that we can still say Sherwood has provided a top 4 challenge. Despite the fact that the point I was making was that we were seriously far ahead of Liverpool last season and saying 'we had a shot at third' or 'we could have been level with third on the final day' doesn't alter that point.''

No need perhaps, but still for the better I think And it wasn't only that one reaction, but the overall direction of the discussion.

a shame you feel that way Braineclipse - always enjoy reading your opinions.

Ive generally tried to avoid the Sherwood discussions seemingly for the same reasons as you. however i don't mind talking about previous managers (in context and see no reason why a AVB vs Rodgers debate can't take place - i think it's actually been pretty good chat )- and don't forget you joined this discussion so i guess that makes you a bit of a glutton for punishment

Cheers mate, and the same back at you. Like with BOL and with KD (and the rest of the posters here) I look forward to the post-season, heading into pre-season, transfer market, new optimism positivity discussions!

I did in fact join the discussion, and probably do enjoy a punishment sometimes (don't you dare tell Chich!)

Enjoy!

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In my case this is absolutely correct, and based on various things I'd heard over the last few years. What I will say is that once he was appointed, I swore to put personal feelings aside and support the man as he was our manager. Actions and words in recent weeks have forced me to personally revoke my support for the guy and tick off time until he is out of our club.Interestingly enough for me, his 'work' on the pitch as a manager was not the deal breaker, it's been the ****e he spouts and the things he does. He needs to be gone.

That is my conclusion too. It is not his work on the pitch ( I think he has largely done pretty well here) but it has been his off field antics and statements that has made his position untenable as our manager in the longer term

However, after today, I think it is increasingly likely that LVG will go to OT and replace Moyes. His agent is already making noises in this regard - saying RVP would stay if LVG went to Man Ure. We can't hope to compete if they want LVG.

So, if we DON'T manage to get LVG, what then?

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That is my conclusion too. It is not his work on the pitch ( I think he has largely done pretty well here) but it has been his off field antics and statements that has made his position untenable as our manager in the longer term

However, after today, I think it is increasingly likely that LVG will go to OT and replace Moyes. His agent is already making noises in this regard - saying RVP would stay if LVG went to Man Ure. We can't hope to compete if they want LVG.

So, if we DON'T manage to get LVG, what then?

Oh FFS, it's not like the club will implode if we don't get LVG. There ARE other good options. I'd be delighted if LVG got the job, but I DO have reservations about him with the media, with some of our players, but most of all with Levy and the transfer committee.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That is my conclusion too. It is not his work on the pitch ( I think he has largely done pretty well here) but it has been his off field antics and statements that has made his position untenable as our manager in the longer term

However, after today, I think it is increasingly likely that LVG will go to OT and replace Moyes. His agent is already making noises in this regard - saying RVP would stay if LVG went to Man Ure. We can't hope to compete if they want LVG.

So, if we DON'T manage to get LVG, what then?

If only we had a thread where we could discuss that

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

you're in full on desperation mode now imho. A lot of those signings were "Levy style signings"?

You're in cloud cuckoo land if you genuinely think Levy brought in Baldini and then suddenly took it upon himself to scout a random romanian cb, or a random winger from Belgium and decide himself those are the players needed.

Agree with this. Also, it surely must have been AVB who went out on a limb for Soldado. There could not be a more un-Levy like signing. 29 and £26 million. No sell on value. Deffo not a Levy type signing . How much more backing do you want?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

come on KD let's not spoil an otherwise decent debate with such an abrasive tone

Bloody good point though

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

One of the main things I think everybody is forgetting about last season (and AVB's first in charge) is that our side had been built by the predecessor around Luka Modric, and quite rightly so; the man was brilliant (much-under appreciated by some mate, not you I know, but some)…thus not just the new incoming manager but our entire side had to adapt to a new style of playing without the man who had been the foundation for three seasons…

Quite a big change to accommodate IMO.

Good post

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Oh FFS, it's not like the club will implode if we don't get LVG. There ARE other good options. I'd be delighted if LVG got the job, but I DO have reservations about him with the media, with some of our players, but most of all with Levy and the transfer committee.

Just to be clear, what in your opinion, are the other good options?