Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
which is my point?
you brought Rodgers up and i then countered why it wasn't comparable
which is my point?
you brought Rodgers up and i then countered why it wasn't comparable
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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I don't remember that happening. I remember him saying he wanted Moutinho (a creative cm) who he didn't get. I then remember him deciding that the CM he should bring in this season is paulinho (far from a creative CM...in fact...wtf is he?) making me think the need of a creative CM didn't mean as much to him as some claimed.
I don't remember that happening. I remember him saying he wanted Moutinho (a creative cm) who he didn't get. I then remember him deciding that the CM he should bring in this season is paulinho (far from a creative CM...in fact...wtf is he?) making me think the need of a creative CM didn't mean as much to him as some claimed.
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
My apologies....they are comparable. I meant to say they're totally different situations but you can indeed compare them.
My apologies....they are comparable. I meant to say they're totally different situations but you can indeed compare them.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
No, KD is saying that with Rodgers we could visually see improvement, with AVB we didn't see the same thing.
Seriously, last summer many Liverpool fans were happy about the idea of letting Suarez leave because of the attacking play they had been delivering without him in the team. That's the kind of thing that makes the two situations different to KD (and myself), not that Rodgers somehow wasn't under pressure to deliver.
Again, Benitez was sacked in 2010, Hodgson was sacked in 2011, Dalglish was sacked in 2012. The idea that Rodgers took over a job where he wasn't under pressure to deliver just doesn't float with me. Yes, having finished 8th in 11/12 Rodgers wasn't under immediate pressure to qualify for the CL. Unlike AVB who had taken over for Redknapp who finished 4th. But just like AVB would have been put under pressure had he dropped us down to 6th-7th Rodgers would have been under pressure had they dropped down to 10th-11th.
No, KD is saying that with Rodgers we could visually see improvement, with AVB we didn't see the same thing.
Seriously, last summer many Liverpool fans were happy about the idea of letting Suarez leave because of the attacking play they had been delivering without him in the team. That's the kind of thing that makes the two situations different to KD (and myself), not that Rodgers somehow wasn't under pressure to deliver.
Again, Benitez was sacked in 2010, Hodgson was sacked in 2011, Dalglish was sacked in 2012. The idea that Rodgers took over a job where he wasn't under pressure to deliver just doesn't float with me. Yes, having finished 8th in 11/12 Rodgers wasn't under immediate pressure to qualify for the CL. Unlike AVB who had taken over for Redknapp who finished 4th. But just like AVB would have been put under pressure had he dropped us down to 6th-7th Rodgers would have been under pressure had they dropped down to 10th-11th.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
again this all comes under having to juggle expectations in the league with setting about implementing his style. the over riding target for his first season, seemingly from both board and supporters alike was a top 4 challenge - which he delivered, most likely to the determent of the bedding in process of his tactics/style. we had a poor team on paper in an attacking sense last season and with the target of a top 4 challenge being paramount he set the team up to achieve that. then we have a summer where the most integral part of his team was sold and 7 new foreign signings were added in his place - it's not much of a surprise that removing him from the job half way in to a season with such a high turnover of players saw little overall progress in our play. personally i would have expected to have seen some kind of improvement by the end of this season had he remained in charge (and wanted to stay) with a view of serious progress the following season. had that not been the case then i think we would be on better grounds to make the decision to let him go.
again this all comes under having to juggle expectations in the league with setting about implementing his style. the over riding target for his first season, seemingly from both board and supporters alike was a top 4 challenge - which he delivered, most likely to the determent of the bedding in process of his tactics/style. we had a poor team on paper in an attacking sense last season and with the target of a top 4 challenge being paramount he set the team up to achieve that. then we have a summer where the most integral part of his team was sold and 7 new foreign signings were added in his place - it's not much of a surprise that removing him from the job half way in to a season with such a high turnover of players saw little overall progress in our play. personally i would have expected to have seen some kind of improvement by the end of this season had he remained in charge (and wanted to stay) with a view of serious progress the following season. had that not been the case then i think we would be on better grounds to make the decision to let him go.
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
That's exactly what i'm trying to say except you articulate yourself far better:lol:
That's exactly what i'm trying to say except you articulate yourself far better:lol:
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I also think the apparent "pressure" the board put on AVB to finish top 4 is exaggerated by most on here. I mean, he finished 5th last season and still had a job with no whispers of the board being unhappy.
I also think the apparent "pressure" the board put on AVB to finish top 4 is exaggerated by most on here. I mean, he finished 5th last season and still had a job with no whispers of the board being unhappy.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
... and i countered why it wasn't a fair comparison - which i presume he actually agrees with seeings as he later agreed that the two situations were very different.
of course i am over egging the no expectations placed on Rodgers in the league line but come on, he wasn't given the targets that AVB was and thus IMV he was in a position to approach the season from an entirely different angle.
Rodgers could approach the season primarily to get his system in place, whereas AVB had to prioritize a top 4 challenge. do you disagree with that?
... and i countered why it wasn't a fair comparison - which i presume he actually agrees with seeings as he later agreed that the two situations were very different.
of course i am over egging the no expectations placed on Rodgers in the league line but come on, he wasn't given the targets that AVB was and thus IMV he was in a position to approach the season from an entirely different angle.
Rodgers could approach the season primarily to get his system in place, whereas AVB had to prioritize a top 4 challenge. do you disagree with that?
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
top 4 challenge - which he provided, so why would the board be unhappy with that?
top 4 challenge - which he provided, so why would the board be unhappy with that?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Yeah, Moutinho and Hulk. Two players that would both break our transfer record. Neither of them young players. At least one of them (Hulk) on massive wages too. Shortly after almost certainly having been briefed by Levy on our transfer policy...
That's not the same as signing Sturridge and Coutinho for a bit less than what Moutinho (the cheapest of Moutinho and Hulk) would have cost on his own. Both young players, players that fit an overall strategy of signing young players with a lot of potential for relatively small amounts of money by the way. Doing so in the notoriously difficult January transfer window even.
I don't see how the two situations are comparable. If anything it highlights part of the problem with AVB. Where was the cheaper option to signing Moutinho that would be a similar player? Nowhere to be found. This to me is similar to Harry going out saying he wanted Tevez, and then people blaming Levy when we ended up with Saha. There has to be a list of targets, there has to be others than a superstar we can sign to make the system work! If not it's not really a system, it's the ****ing galacticos and that's not us.
Yeah, Moutinho and Hulk. Two players that would both break our transfer record. Neither of them young players. At least one of them (Hulk) on massive wages too. Shortly after almost certainly having been briefed by Levy on our transfer policy...
That's not the same as signing Sturridge and Coutinho for a bit less than what Moutinho (the cheapest of Moutinho and Hulk) would have cost on his own. Both young players, players that fit an overall strategy of signing young players with a lot of potential for relatively small amounts of money by the way. Doing so in the notoriously difficult January transfer window even.
I don't see how the two situations are comparable. If anything it highlights part of the problem with AVB. Where was the cheaper option to signing Moutinho that would be a similar player? Nowhere to be found. This to me is similar to Harry going out saying he wanted Tevez, and then people blaming Levy when we ended up with Saha. There has to be a list of targets, there has to be others than a superstar we can sign to make the system work! If not it's not really a system, it's the ****ing galacticos and that's not us.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
He wasn't given those targets because of where they were when he took over.
Spot on.
He wasn't given those targets because of where they were when he took over.
Spot on.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
So with the squad of players Liverpool had, finishing around 6th was par. They weren't looking for over achievement last season. They were happy to see progress in terms of style. Where as we at Spurs are tasking our managers to overachieve or be deemed failures.
Rodgers had time to get his system into place without the same kind of pressure on results as AVB would have had.
So with the squad of players Liverpool had, finishing around 6th was par. They weren't looking for over achievement last season. They were happy to see progress in terms of style. Where as we at Spurs are tasking our managers to overachieve or be deemed failures.
Rodgers had time to get his system into place without the same kind of pressure on results as AVB would have had.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I assume it was a 'ok you finished just a point away from 4th and the players seem behind you, so we can't exactly sack you, but we expect 4th this time around'. He was definitely under some sort of pressure to make a credible stab at 4th which is the point.
I assume it was a 'ok you finished just a point away from 4th and the players seem behind you, so we can't exactly sack you, but we expect 4th this time around'. He was definitely under some sort of pressure to make a credible stab at 4th which is the point.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
So you're saying Redknapp over achieved with our squad then and that it was unrealistic to ask AVB to aim to match that league position?
So you're saying Redknapp over achieved with our squad then and that it was unrealistic to ask AVB to aim to match that league position?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
of course, but it doesn't change the fact he could focus on team building over a fixed target in the league.
and it isn't spot on as i don't think anyone said top 4 minimum was the target, an expected challenge for the top four places is what i have been saying. he provided that then the most vital part of his team was sold and we wonder why there was a lack of progression four months down the line :lol:
of course, but it doesn't change the fact he could focus on team building over a fixed target in the league.
and it isn't spot on as i don't think anyone said top 4 minimum was the target, an expected challenge for the top four places is what i have been saying. he provided that then the most vital part of his team was sold and we wonder why there was a lack of progression four months down the line :lol:
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
"top 4 challenge" :ross:
Then i assume Tim Sherwood will remain manager next season being that he's successfully unlocked the "top 4 challenge" the board so desperately want. Give me a break man.
"top 4 challenge" :ross:
Then i assume Tim Sherwood will remain manager next season being that he's successfully unlocked the "top 4 challenge" the board so desperately want. Give me a break man.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
No I think Redknapp under achieved with the 4th placed finish because we had a better side than Arsenal and Chelsea's poor season meant we were up to 4th by default. The next season sans Modric, plus the Ade imposter, sans King...I think it would have taken a huge effort to get 4th and I was surprised we got so close.
No I think Redknapp under achieved with the 4th placed finish because we had a better side than Arsenal and Chelsea's poor season meant we were up to 4th by default. The next season sans Modric, plus the Ade imposter, sans King...I think it would have taken a huge effort to get 4th and I was surprised we got so close.