Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I assume it was a 'ok you finished just a point away from 4th and the players seem behind you, so we can't exactly sack you, but we expect 4th this time around'. He was definitely under some sort of pressure to make a credible stab at 4th which is the point.

Excatly like Rodgers was this season!

Yet despite this pressure they've been improving, as a team, as a unit. We didn't.

I'm sorry, but if the difference in outcome AVB and Rodgers looks only like something that happened because of the difference between them in starting positions at this point to you I'm not really interested in this discussion any more because we're not going anywhere I haven't been before and I would rather speculate who our 7th choice option behind LvG and the next 5 will be come the summer.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

"top 4 challenge" :ross:

Then i assume Tim Sherwood will remain manager next season being that he's successfully unlocked the "top 4 challenge" the board so desperately want. Give me a break man.

He hasn't though, has he? We haven't been top 4 challengers for weeks!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Excatly like Rodgers was this season!

Yet despite this pressure they've been improving, as a team, as a unit. We didn't.

I'm sorry, but if the difference in outcome AVB and Rodgers looks only like something that happened because of the difference between them in starting positions at this point to you I'm not really interested in this discussion any more because we're not going anywhere I haven't been before and I would rather speculate who our 7th choice option behind LvG and the next 5 will be come the summer.

But he had last season without pressure, to establish a system to work this season? I don't know who brought up Rodgers but it's someone saying 'look at him, they are playing pretty football.' You have people saying 'yeah, but they weren't expected to make a top 4 challenge' and you're claiming that there was some pressure on Rodgers to hit the heights of 7th despite them easily having a top 6 budget and squad.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

"top 4 challenge" :ross:

Then i assume Tim Sherwood will remain manager next season being that he's successfully unlocked the "top 4 challenge" the board so desperately want. Give me a break man.

im not sure what we're laughing at here?

has Tim Sherwood provided a top 4 challenge then? perhaps you should have a look at the league table mate

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But he had last season without pressure, to establish a system to work this season? I don't know who brought up Rodgers but it's someone saying 'look at him, they are playing pretty football.' You have people saying 'yeah, but they weren't expected to make a top 4 challenge' and you're claiming that there was some pressure on Rodgers to hit the heights of 7th despite them easily having a top 6 budget and squad.

they seem to be arguing that Rodgers is an example of what AVB should have been able to achieve whilst also saying the two situations are incomparable.

it's an interesting take on debate i have to say

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Excatly like Rodgers was this season!

Yet despite this pressure they've been improving, as a team, as a unit. We didn't.

I'm sorry, but if the difference in outcome AVB and Rodgers looks only like something that happened because of the difference between them in starting positions at this point to you I'm not really interested in this discussion any more because we're not going anywhere I haven't been before and I would rather speculate who our 7th choice option behind LvG and the next 5 will be come the summer.

...And the whole point is that Rodgers' Liverpool have been improving to an excellent extent this season because of last season's lack of pressure, so they had an imbedded system, plus PL-ready players, plus no Europe.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No I think Redknapp under achieved with the 4th placed finish because we had a better side than Arsenal and Chelsea's poor season meant we were up to 4th by default. The next season sans Modric, plus the Ade imposter, sans King...I think it would have taken a huge effort to get 4th and I was surprised we got so close.

and this season you predicted a title challenge with our new players. You claimed AVB the new signings were great....fast forward when things go tits up and it was apparently wayyyy too many signings and AVB didn't get a fair chance.

I know what you're going to say..."i said title challenge before bale was sold"...yes this is true but once he was sold you still claimed we would have a successful season and AVB has been supported by the board. It's amazing how things have now changed.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

im not sure what we're laughing at here?

has Tim Sherwood provided a top 4 challenge then? perhaps you should have a look at the league table mate

well yes he has....are we still in contention for a top 4 finish now? just as likely as BOL statement claiming we were challenging for 3rd on the last day of last season.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

well yes he has....are we still in contention for a top 4 finish now? just as likely as BOL statement claiming we were challenging for 3rd on the last day of last season.

think you're clutching at straws there buddy

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

...And the whole point is that Rodgers' Liverpool have been improving to an excellent extent this season because of last season's lack of pressure, so they had an imbedded system, plus PL-ready players, plus no Europe.

Last seasons lack of pressure? jesus christ. Did you not read Braincelipse's post reagrding manager turnover at that club over the last few years. You simply ignore facts and go with your opinion again.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

think you're clutching at straws there buddy

as long as it's mathematically possible it's doable right? much like having a 16 goal swing in 1 match is doable.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

well yes he has....are we still in contention for a top 4 finish now? just as likely as BOL statement claiming we were challenging for 3rd on the last day of last season.

Mate if Chelsea had lost by 7 goals and we had beaten Sunderland 9-0 third would have been ours...it was a shot. The longest of shots. But a shot.

In all seriousness though, we haven't been top 4 challengers probably since the Norwich defeat. Which was when? Start of March? I don't think that counts as a top 4 challenge.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

...And the whole point is that Rodgers' Liverpool have been improving to an excellent extent this season because of last season's lack of pressure, so they had an imbedded system, plus PL-ready players, plus no Europe.

At least others have been willing to agree that the "lack of pressure" for Rodgers was relative, you keep hammering on it.

I repeat, Benitez sacked in 2010, Hodgson in 2011, Dalglish in 2012. Somehow Rodgers takes over in 2012 with a "lack of pressure". I don't buy it at all.

To me it looks a better explanation to say that despite the obvious pressure Rodgers managed to keep a focus on long term improvement in play - particularly attacking play whereas AVB didn't handle the pressure all that well. He came out with the worst of both, no CL qualification and no improvement in attacking play. And when he tried again he failed for half a season to get proper significant attacking play going even against teams that would have been strengthened even by the idea of once having had the chance to sell Gareth Bale. It's not that we didn't outplay and beat City (that would be much to expect), it's that we consistently week in and week out came up against teams who were worse than us player for player and we couldn't create chances.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

At least others have been willing to agree that the "lack of pressure" for Rodgers was relative, you keep hammering on it.

I repeat, Benitez sacked in 2010, Hodgson in 2011, Dalglish in 2012. Somehow Rodgers takes over in 2012 with a "lack of pressure". I don't buy it at all.

To me it looks a better explanation to say that despite the obvious pressure Rodgers managed to keep a focus on long term improvement in play - particularly attacking play whereas AVB didn't handle the pressure all that well. He came out with the worst of both, no CL qualification and no improvement in attacking play. And when he tried again he failed for half a season to get proper significant attacking play going even against teams that would have been strengthened even by the idea of once having had the chance to sell Gareth Bale. It's not that we didn't outplay and beat City (that would be much to expect), it's that we consistently week in and week out came up against teams who were worse than us player for player and we couldn't create chances.

You can repeat it 10000000000 times mate...it will do no good at all.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

think you're clutching at straws there buddy

Isn't his comparison to BOL's statement pretty spot on?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Last seasons lack of pressure? jesus christ. Did you not read Braincelipse's post reagrding manager turnover at that club over the last few years. You simply ignore facts and go with your opinion again.

those 'facts' do nothing to tell us of the expectations placed on him by the LFC board during his first season.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

and this season you predicted a title challenge with our new players. You claimed AVB the new signings were great....fast forward when things go tits up and it was apparently wayyyy too many signings and AVB didn't get a fair chance.

I know what you're going to say..."i said title challenge before bale was sold"...yes this is true but once he was sold you still claimed we would have a successful season and AVB has been supported by the board. It's amazing how things have now changed.

So what? What does it matter what I predicted? It has nothing to do with this discussion now. I said if we kept Bale we could challenge for the title. I said once he was sold that if we used the money well we could still be up there. Once it became clear that yes, indeed, foreign players can take time to settle and the likes of Sandro are right in that regard I adjusted my expectations. Why do you keep denying that foreign players (particularly 7 at once) may take some time to perform at an optimum level?

I don't see why my bullishness and excitement at the start of the season has anything to do with what we are discussing now. I'm an idiot fan. I've admitted I was wrong on many occasions on that score and I don't mind. I'm not on the board of the club and I'm not paid to make the strategic decisions that should see us successful.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Isn't his comparison to BOL's statement pretty spot on?

It is, and to be fair I was wrong. I forgot what goal difference was. Still, people saying 'look at Liverpool, they finished 7th!' and me saying we were 3 points off of third (11 ahead of Liverpool) means my point actually still works to be honest. They weren't the bastions of exceptional winning football last year. They played some nice stuff in a low pressure season.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Mate if Chelsea had lost by 7 goals and we had beaten Sunderland 9-0 third would have been ours...it was a shot. The longest of shots. But a shot.

In all seriousness though, we haven't been top 4 challengers probably since the Norwich defeat. Which was when? Start of March? I don't think that counts as a top 4 challenge.

Billy....i know you're not claiming i'm "clutching at straws" after reading this right?:lol:

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Isn't his comparison to BOL's statement pretty spot on?

Im not BOL and i never said anything about being in with a chance of 3rd last season so it's not my debate.

If you guys want to get that precious about semantics then im not particularly interested in going any further tbh - and in all honesty it's not really the main point of the debate we're having and im sure it was said in jest initially.