Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Werr there any posts before March time of last year (when we sort of passed the ball to Bale) mentioning our style of football? Nothing springs to mind, especially when we were on that ridiculous run. A lot of people on here rewrite history, we know this.

When we were winning games last year, no one complained, or moaned about style of play. Towards the end of the season I remember the pass to Bale and let him score comments.

It only seems, in my memory anyway, that it was this season we started consistently moaning about the way we played football under avb, and only that started happening properly when we started losing games.

that was a fan joke kind of thing.........ever since AVB took over and his first initial games there were plenty of complaints about our attacking play, even after wins fans would say "yeah nice to win but we didnt play well".

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

whats pathetic about having a stand out player scoring winning goals?

i still struggle to comprehend this train of thought

there is nothing pathetic about that.........the problem was having to endure the tepid dull football that went with it

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

whats pathetic about having a stand out player scoring winning goals?

i still struggle to comprehend this train of thought

I've explained it before and i'm getting tired doing it again and again tbh.

It's pathetic when the manager has no fall back option. When he's preferred tactic is to get the ball to our best player then fine....but failing that there has to be a back up plan. AVB did exactly what Arry did.....throw 2 up top when he panicked (never worked) but didn't get nearly the amount of abuse Arry did.

Take Brendon rodgers for example. He possesses a world class player in Luis Suarez but you'll never find him doing what AVB did last season. Why? because he's implemented a system that doesn't rely so heavily on his world class player and they 'share the workload' if you will. Check Pools win/loss and goals for record when Suarez isn't playing....they still win...they still score with ease.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

but that's all opinion? Scaramanga made it seem like the poster brought forward some conclusive evidence to prove Bale didn't single handedly save us. All that post illustrates is your opinion on how well we played in the games..proves nothing.

EDIT: Conclusive evidence or at least solid evidence is what i brought forward when some jabroni was trying to argue that Liverpool rely on Suarez more than we did bale. I dug up their win/loss record without him (as well as ours with/without bale). Their goals scored with/without him (same with Bale). I mean that's conclusive evidence.

If you're comparing 2 different teams then of course you can compare win/loss records with/without the player. If the argument is 'We played rubbish football but Bale saved us time and time again' then the only thing to do is to look at the performances and see if they actually fit that criteria. It's opinion as far as deciding how a team plays in any football match is opinion. I mean I can say we played rubbish football when we beat Inter Milan because it's 'my opinion' but it's pretty far fetched to say it wasn't that great.

Those games are games I listed where we played good football, created chances (backed up by the stats) and crafted good team moves that didn't all rely Bale pulling us out of trouble. Bale was simply the guy that got the goal.

Anyway, why is the reason for this being brought up again? Is the argument to say that better players will lead to more points? It's pretty obvious that it will happen.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've explained it before and i'm getting tired doing it again and again tbh.

It's pathetic when the manager has no fall back option. When he's preferred tactic is to get the ball to our best player then fine....but failing that there has to be a back up plan. AVB did exactly what Arry did.....throw 2 up top when he panicked (never worked) but didn't get nearly the amount of abuse Arry did.

Take Brendon rodgers for example. He possesses a world class player in Luis Suarez but you'll never find him doing what AVB did last season. Why? because he's implemented a system that doesn't rely so heavily on his world class player and they 'share the workload' if you will. Check Pools win/loss and goals for record when Suarez isn't playing....they still win...they still score with ease.

Well Tony Blair succeeded in his quest then didn't he.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can we have a discussion about TS that doesn't involve AVB and/or Bale?

Posters want to say that there is an irrational dislike of TS, yet despite people pointing out

- Poor defensive shape/structure
- Slow starts (first 50 minutes of most games)
- Odd team choices, poor player management (dropping players after scoring/good performance)
- Horrible representation of the club/himself in the media

the supposedly "rational" people generally come back with "well, he's better than AVB" with some small pool of handpicked stats to back it up.

Really, why (besides give a bloke a chance) would we want TS here next season? do you really believe he's vested in Spurs, do you really believe he has shown some glimpse of great tactical ability or man management that would make him a better candidate than any of the 5-6 names currently being rumoured around?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've explained it before and i'm getting tired doing it again and again tbh.

It's pathetic when the manager has no fall back option. When he's preferred tactic is to get the ball to our best player then fine....but failing that there has to be a back up plan. AVB did exactly what Arry did.....throw 2 up top when he panicked (never worked) but didn't get nearly the amount of abuse Arry did.

Harry got abuse for putting two upfront? news to me. not really sure what relevance that has anyway

take a look at our attacking options from that season - frankly on paper we were poor outside of Bale so it's no surprise that our game plan was centered on him and that the alternatives (or back up plan) wasn't as effective. i seem to remember us picking up plenty of points in the early part of the season prior to when Bale really kicked on as well btw.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can we have a discussion about TS that doesn't involve AVB and/or Bale?

Posters want to say that there is an irrational dislike of TS, yet despite people pointing out

- Poor defensive shape/structure
- Slow starts (first 50 minutes of most games)
- Odd team choices, poor player management (dropping players after scoring/good performance)
- Horrible representation of the club/himself in the media

the supposedly "rational" people generally come back with "well, he's better than AVB" with some small pool of handpicked stats to back it up.

Really, why (besides give a bloke a chance) would we want TS here next season? do you really believe he's vested in Spurs, do you really believe he has shown some glimpse of great tactical ability or man management that would make him a better candidate than any of the 5-6 names currently being rumoured around?

Well obviously he has... a) Man management - brought through the youngsters and has said that he wont pick on reputation, that to me is man management. If those 'bigger' stars dont like it then it shows where their cause is. b) Tactical ability - debatable but has shown through the 'success' in winning games that he has some ability in this regard. c) Vested in Spurs - and you think half those players are? Vert for example?

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No, but Sherwood does have the best Premier League record of any Spurs manager.

But apparently, that's not enough to allow him to keep his job.

So you seriously believe Tim Sherwood should remain the manager of Tottenham Hotspur? Do you have reasons other than being top of a table that doesn't feature the top 4? Genuine question mate.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

but that's all opinion? Scaramanga made it seem like the poster brought forward some conclusive evidence to prove Bale didn't single handedly save us. All that post illustrates is your opinion on how well we played in the games..proves nothing.

EDIT: Conclusive evidence or at least solid evidence is what i brought forward when some jabroni was trying to argue that Liverpool rely on Suarez more than we did bale. I dug up their win/loss record without him (as well as ours with/without bale). Their goals scored with/without him (same with Bale). I mean that's conclusive evidence.

Of course it's opinion, but it's opinion that nobody has, as yet, been able to sensibly argue against.

When you break it down, it wasn't often that a Bale wonder strike won us a match we were unlikely to win anyway. He scored a few wonder strikes, but not all won us matches. He scored a few winning goals, but many were goals you would expect any decent attacker in that position to score.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can we have a discussion about TS that doesn't involve AVB and/or Bale?

Posters want to say that there is an irrational dislike of TS, yet despite people pointing out

- Poor defensive shape/structure
- Slow starts (first 50 minutes of most games)
- Odd team choices, poor player management (dropping players after scoring/good performance)
- Horrible representation of the club/himself in the media

the supposedly "rational" people generally come back with "well, he's better than AVB" with some small pool of handpicked stats to back it up.

Really, why (besides give a bloke a chance) would we want TS here next season? do you really believe he's vested in Spurs, do you really believe he has shown some glimpse of great tactical ability or man management that would make him a better candidate than any of the 5-6 names currently being rumoured around?

Personally i think Sherwood and AVB are as hopeless as eachother but in totally different ways. I think the main issue with both are:

Sherwoods flaws = Constantly tweaking formations on a weekly basis and not having the conviction to stick to a preferred system.
AVBs flaws = Sticking to a broken formation/system that will NEVER work consistently in this league and generally being too ****ing stubborn to realise this.

Both as bad as eachother and i'm glad both are not part of the long term future of this club.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You are wasting your time most of the Tim hatred is not based on rationale. I get the anger that some posters such as Rossi and Steff feel about Sherwood having a go at players in public, I personally don't have a problem but I can see why some fans would call him out on it that is perfectly reasonable. But this rudderless ship nonsense is just not borne out by the games I'm watching or the points we have accumulated. It's like there is a collective mourning for the previous coach and a total rejection of the current one.

There are many areas of the side I don't feel he's properly addressed though mate, the chief of which is defence. He has no strategy (or perhaps desire) to fashion a side which is tight in defence! Our back-line is weak yet he offers them no protection whatsoever week in, week out. It'd be lunacy as a long-term policy IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The one positive I feel Tim has is his knowledge of the youth players and his willingness to utilise them - but that isn't enough for me if we're talking about someone with LVG's C.V. In an ideal World he or someone with that inside knowledge would work alongside a man such as LVG. I think if the opportunity arose, Tim would be foolish not to gain valuable experience next to a top experienced manager - perhaps he feels he is ready or perhaps his ego will not allow it? It's especially the case where LVG is also not scared to blood youngsters whereby his appointment should never be sniffed at. If Tim got a chance could he be like a LVG? We're not really in a position to gamble.

Agree with this, it has been a massive, massive plus for Sherwood. I will always be grateful that he gave Bentaleb a good run and Kane a chance. If he genuinely doesn't like most of the first team squad, let's hope he gives the likes of Fredricks a game too...

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've explained it before and i'm getting tired doing it again and again tbh.

It's pathetic when the manager has no fall back option. When he's preferred tactic is to get the ball to our best player then fine....but failing that there has to be a back up plan. AVB did exactly what Arry did.....throw 2 up top when he panicked (never worked) but didn't get nearly the amount of abuse Arry did.

Take Brendon rodgers for example. He possesses a world class player in Luis Suarez but you'll never find him doing what AVB did last season. Why? because he's implemented a system that doesn't rely so heavily on his world class player and they 'share the workload' if you will. Check Pools win/loss and goals for record when Suarez isn't playing....they still win...they still score with ease.

You do realise that Liverpool have the PL's 2 most prolific strikers this season?

If we had Sturridge (on this season's form) as well as Bale I suspect we'd do pretty well without him.

Equally, take Sturridge and Suarez out of Liverpool at once and you have a struggling team.

See, not fact - just opinion.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've explained it before and i'm getting tired doing it again and again tbh.

It's pathetic when the manager has no fall back option. When he's preferred tactic is to get the ball to our best player then fine....but failing that there has to be a back up plan. AVB did exactly what Arry did.....throw 2 up top when he panicked (never worked) but didn't get nearly the amount of abuse Arry did.

Take Brendon rodgers for example. He possesses a world class player in Luis Suarez but you'll never find him doing what AVB did last season. Why? because he's implemented a system that doesn't rely so heavily on his world class player and they 'share the workload' if you will. Check Pools win/loss and goals for record when Suarez isn't playing....they still win...they still score with ease.

That always annoyed me and you're right, it never worked. We'd generally be well on top in those games and then lose all momentum after the switch, I remember Harry would often drop VDV back to CM and bring on a striker, all that achieved was us not being able to get the ball back.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Harry got abuse for putting two upfront? news to me. not really sure what relevance that has anyway

take a look at our attacking options from that season - frankly on paper we were poor outside of Bale so it's no surprise that our game plan was centered on him and that the alternatives (or back up plan) wasn't as effective. i seem to remember us picking up plenty of points in the early part of the season prior to when Bale really kicked on as well btw.

I since added the bit about Brendon Rodgers in that post.

Yes Arry got constant abuse (from me included) when he panicked and went 2 up top. There was countless games where we couldn't unlock a defence yet he would throw another up top in a desperate attempt to get a goal...but all that happened was we simply couldn't get hold of the ball. AVB did the same thing when he panicked....and tbh from all the stuff i read about him i was shocked/saddened when he resorted to this. Here is this master tactician doing exactly the same **** the wheeler dealer did....nah not happy.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You do realise that Liverpool have the PL's 2 most prolific strikers this season?

If we had Sturridge (on this season's form) as well as Bale I suspect we'd do pretty well without him.

Equally, take Sturridge and Suarez out of Liverpool at once and you have a struggling team.

See, not fact - just opinion.

You do realise i'm talking about last season when Liverpool were well below us and sturridge just arrived right? have a look at their record without Suarez at the end of the season please. Thank you.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If you're comparing 2 different teams then of course you can compare win/loss records with/without the player. If the argument is 'We played rubbish football but Bale saved us time and time again' then the only thing to do is to look at the performances and see if they actually fit that criteria. It's opinion as far as deciding how a team plays in any football match is opinion. I mean I can say we played rubbish football when we beat Inter Milan because it's 'my opinion' but it's pretty far fetched to say it wasn't that great.

Those games are games I listed where we played good football, created chances (backed up by the stats) and crafted good team moves that didn't all rely Bale pulling us out of trouble. Bale was simply the guy that got the goal.

Anyway, why is the reason for this being brought up again? Is the argument to say that better players will lead to more points? It's pretty obvious that it will happen.

If someone could be bothered to compile some stats it'd be interesting to see how we got on in games where Bale didn't score (or play). would give a better reflection than simply taking his goals away

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How do you define plenty here? A majority? Or a handful of posters?

The only poll I think has been conducted on this was here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5600-Was-Levy-right-to-sack-AVB 55% thought Levy was right to sack AVB at the time. Since then I think the mood has shifted towards more people agreeing with the decision based on the discussions I've seen, although a lot of people want Sherwood gone.

Several frequent posters were vocally unhappy about Sherwood when appointed as a continuation of them not liking Sherwood at any point including when he was our technical director. I don't think I'm misrepresenting Gutter Boy, Scara or Steff by including them in this just as an example.

I don't see anything that's even near to accurately described as "a collective mourning for the previous coach".

In my case this is absolutely correct, and based on various things I'd heard over the last few years. What I will say is that once he was appointed, I swore to put personal feelings aside and support the man as he was our manager. Actions and words in recent weeks have forced me to personally revoke my support for the guy and tick off time until he is out of our club. Interestingly enough for me, his 'work' on the pitch as a manager was not the deal breaker, it's been the ****e he spouts and the things he does. He needs to be gone.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've explained it before and i'm getting tired doing it again and again tbh.

It's pathetic when the manager has no fall back option. When he's preferred tactic is to get the ball to our best player then fine....but failing that there has to be a back up plan. AVB did exactly what Arry did.....throw 2 up top when he panicked (never worked) but didn't get nearly the amount of abuse Arry did.

Take Brendon rodgers for example. He possesses a world class player in Luis Suarez but you'll never find him doing what AVB did last season. Why? because he's implemented a system that doesn't rely so heavily on his world class player and they 'share the workload' if you will. Check Pools win/loss and goals for record when Suarez isn't playing....they still win...they still score with ease.

Rodgers had the benefit of having the backing of the board/fans during his first season where performances and results were erratic to say the least, it's funny to see people use him as an example whilst at the same time lambasting AVB for his first season in charge :lol:.