Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm sure if you listened to other benches during games you would hear just as bad. Every manager has fallings out with players that's life. This one was brought into the public domain by Sandro.

The Chiriches comment was brought into the public domain by a journalist.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sherwood's points total has been respectable. if he had come in, kept the seat warm, and kept his gob shut it would have been fine.

some of us don't want to see our manager throwing the ball at an arsenal defender because he can't for the life of him figure out how to attack them.
we don't want him starting fisticuffs with the benfica manager because again he's been tactically outclassed.
we don't want him throwing gillets around whl.
we don't want him loaning out midfielders then play wide forwards in central midfield.
we don't want him ostracizing loyal servants like sandro and causing ruptures that could have ramnifications beyond his temporary stay.
we don't want him taking the piiss out of record signings who are having problems settling in the press.
we don't want him pinning his campaign on the back of a player who has proven to be totally unreliable and untrustworthy and making out as if he is the heartbeat of tottenham hotspur.
we don't want him calling our squad 'much of a muchness' when its blatantly designed (and going) to cause problems.
we don't want him to sit in the stands and leave chris ramsay to pick up the slack and the touchline because he's a wideboy 'and might knock someone out.'

if he didn't do the above things, we would be grateful for his effort, say thanks for the respectable points haul, shake his hand on the way out of the door and wish him the best for the future.

is it to much to ask for the manager of tottenham hotspur to conduct himself with a little dignity and respect towards his own players, his own staff, his employers and the club's supporters?

I agree. Plus his Lennon love in is a joke.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

How do you define plenty here? A majority? Or a handful of posters?

The only poll I think has been conducted on this was here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5600-Was-Levy-right-to-sack-AVB 55% thought Levy was right to sack AVB at the time. Since then I think the mood has shifted towards more people agreeing with the decision based on the discussions I've seen, although a lot of people want Sherwood gone.

Several frequent posters were vocally unhappy about Sherwood when appointed as a continuation of them not liking Sherwood at any point including when he was our technical director. I don't think I'm misrepresenting Gutter Boy, Scara or Steff by including them in this just as an example.

I don't see anything that's even near to accurately described as "a collective mourning for the previous coach".

Read this thread again if you have a lifetime to waste. You'll find it is more than 3 posters..

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It wasn't from me. My main issues were the terrible man management, the seeming lack of a plan 'B' and/or the unwillingness to change something that blatantly wasn't working and the fact that the players seem to have given up on him or were in the process of doing it. That said, not sure how the style of play isn't much improved? It still isn't great but it has been horses for courses. We still lack creatively, we lack quality in wide areas and we are weak at full back. You've never going to have a wonderful style of play with those circumstances. There is a case for saying he had a window to address some of these issues but it is the winter window. We were never going to be able to solve all of them and at best the answers would probably be stop gap solutions.

Quite simply, we've got better results, we score more goals, we concede less, the style of play is improved.... if the likes of Pochettino is a serious ****ing candidate then Sherwood *should* be. Doesn't mean he should get the job if exceptional candidates come forward but he should be in the mix.

1.31 goals per game under AVB
1.47 goals per game under Sherwood

Style of play is subjective though. I get that we looked slow and ponderous under AVB, but our current all over the place defending isn't any better to watch.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'd agree that 'up and at them' is a bit unfair. We're seeing a lot more hoofball to Ade under Sherwood but that's probably a result of us constantly getting outnumbered in midfield. I imagine that's as a consequence of the formation rather than specific design by Sherwood.

One thing I am torn on though is how bold he is with his selections. On the one hand I want to see us taking the initiative and have as many attacking players on the pitch as possible but I think at times we need a bit more pragmatism. I think Sherwood know that he can put out a team with better players that 80% of the league so just sticks an attacking line up and hopes for the best.

Not saying this is wrong, it's getting decent results, but I fail to see any method from him trying to progress us into a whole greater than the sum of our parts. We have an brilliant squad but I believe we need someone with a bit more nuance to get us succeeding.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'd agree that 'up and at them' is a bit unfair. We're seeing a lot more hoofball to Ade under Sherwood but that's probably a result of us constantly getting outnumbered in midfield. I imagine that's as a consequence of the formation rather than specific design by Sherwood.

One thing I am torn on though is how bold he is with his selections. On the one hand I want to see us taking the initiative and have as many attacking players on the pitch as possible but I think at times we need a bit more pragmatism. I think Sherwood know that he can put out a team with better players that 80% of the league so just sticks an attacking line up and hopes for the best.

Not saying this is wrong, it's getting decent results, but I fail to see any method from him trying to progress us into a whole greater than the sum of our parts. We have an brilliant squad but I believe we need someone with a bit more nuance to get us succeeding.

It's not about hoofball, but how we're left vulnerable at the back by pushing too many players forward. The gaps in front of our defence are massive.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's not about hoofball, but how we're left vulnerable at the back by pushing too many players forward. The gaps in front of our defence are massive.

I agree, and I don't believe it is sustainable but this happened on several occasions in AVB's time too. Part of the problem imo is our midfield have not pressed teams well enough under either manager.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree. Plus his Lennon love in is a joke.

Lennon's been alright, not his best but alright. He's similar to Danny Rose in that his selection is necessitated by a lack of competition.

Who would you play ahead of him? Townsend is the only player that natuarally suits RW and he's exciting but remarkably unproductive. All other possible options (Chadli, Siggy, Dembele) are square pegs so Lennon, for me is the best option.

Aware this is a separate topic but Lennon gets too much stick on here for me

 

[Ryan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's not about hoofball, but how we're left vulnerable at the back by pushing too many players forward. The gaps in front of our defence are massive.

Yep, exactly. The best description I think I can used to describe Sherwood's selections is naivety.

Chadli and Paulinho wont offer any protection to the back four so he hedges his bets that they won't punish us while our amount of attacking quality can hurt them.

It's bold but, as we've seen over the last two games, it's unpredictable. WBA punished us early doors and we scraped a draw. Fulham had opportunities to do the same yesterday but didn't take them and we won fairly comfortably in the end.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Lennon's been alright, not his best but alright. He's similar to Danny Rose in that his selection is necessitated by a lack of competition.

Who would you play ahead of him? Townsend is the only player that natuarally suits RW and he's exciting but remarkably unproductive. All other possible options (Chadli, Siggy, Dembele) are square pegs so Lennon, for me is the best option.

Aware this is a separate topic but Lennon gets too much stick on here for me

I'm not going to get into this as I simply don't agree. I hope neither Tim or Lennon are here next season, big credit to Lennon for his contribution to the club over the years but it's time he was shipped out.

 

[DublinSpur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't see anything that's even near to accurately described as "a collective mourning for the previous coach".

Quite right. There are obviously several posters who were (and a couple remain) vocal in their opposition to AVB's dismissal. We're a broad church here, if you look hard enough you'll find every conceivable opinion on the issue expressed by someone. I think - as forum readers - we just tend to notice the posts we disagree with a lot more than the ones that we agree with or are neutral about.

At the time AVB left, I'd say this place was roughly evenly divided on the issue with perhaps a slim majority in favour of him going (though most would have chosen a different replacement). But that's clearly grown to a substantial majority over time. Back in December I was firmly in the "give AVB until the end of the season" camp - but I've since modified that view... if even half the rumours are true (and we don't know if they are) about AVB's attitude to the job and the total breakdown in the relationship between various parties at the club, then - reluctantly - I would accept it was probably the right thing to part company with him.

I understood Levy's decision to employ Sherwood as a "Caretaker in all but name" as there was literally no decent long-term replacement available at the time. Yeah, I would probably have chosen Hoddle as Caretaker (and made it abundantly clear that he was in fact just the caretaker) for sentimental reasons, but I understood Levy deciding to promote from within and fill the gap with a familiar (to him) face. Some here hated Sherwood from Day One; I had no strong feelings one way or the other. It was his job to keep the ship steady for a few months while we waited for AVB's replacement.

Which is why I don't really understand some of the more aggressive criticism coming his way. He's made some mistakes, sure, and he's failed to perform the sort of miracle that might have convinced Levy to give him a full season. But at the same time he's kept us roughly where we were when he took over. Which - realistically - isn't a terrible performance from a rookie manager in the premiership.

I do think his media management leaves a lot to be desired. And his inexperience has really shown at times. But I don't think he's doing the club any long term damage (if Sandro or Lamela or any other player can't put their issues with an interim manager behind them when the new guy takes over, then that'll be unfortunate but it says a lot more about them than it does about Sherwood) and he has probably done enough to earn the club six or seven million when the next guy decides to sell Bentaleb and Kane ;-)

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Read this thread again if you have a lifetime to waste. You'll find it is more than 3 posters..

We're obviously talking past each other.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Quite right. There are obviously several posters who were (and a couple remain) vocal in their opposition to AVB's dismissal. We're a broad church here, if you look hard enough you'll find every conceivable opinion on the issue expressed by someone. I think - as forum readers - we just tend to notice the posts we disagree with a lot more than the ones that we agree with or are neutral about.

At the time AVB left, I'd say this place was roughly evenly divided on the issue with perhaps a slim majority in favour of him going (though most would have chosen a different replacement). But that's clearly grown to a substantial majority over time. Back in December I was firmly in the "give AVB until the end of the season" camp - but I've since modified that view... if even half the rumours are true (and we don't know if they are) about AVB's attitude to the job and the total breakdown in the relationship between various parties at the club, then - reluctantly - I would accept it was probably the right thing to part company with him.

I understood Levy's decision to employ Sherwood as a "Caretaker in all but name" as there was literally no decent long-term replacement available at the time. Yeah, I would probably have chosen Hoddle as Caretaker (and made it abundantly clear that he was in fact just the caretaker) for sentimental reasons, but I understood Levy deciding to promote from within and fill the gap with a familiar (to him) face. Some here hated Sherwood from Day One; I had no strong feelings one way or the other. It was his job to keep the ship steady for a few months while we waited for AVB's replacement.

Which is why I don't really understand some of the more aggressive criticism coming his way. He's made some mistakes, sure, and he's failed to perform the sort of miracle that might have convinced Levy to give him a full season. But at the same time he's kept us roughly where we were when he took over. Which - realistically - isn't a terrible performance from a rookie manager in the premiership.

I do think his media management leaves a lot to be desired. And his inexperience has really shown at times. But I don't think he's doing the club any long term damage (if Sandro or Lamela or any other player can't put their issues with an interim manager behind them when the new guy takes over, then that'll be unfortunate but it says a lot more about them than it does about Sherwood) and he has probably done enough to earn the club six or seven million when the next guy decides to sell Bentaleb and Kane ;-)

Cheers, and I agree with you.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

1.31 goals per game under AVB
1.47 goals per game under Sherwood

This equates to 3 more goals conceded under Sherwood having had slightly tougher fixtures. So I really don't see how it is any worse and it remains an improvement from what he took over. We conceded just 1 goal in the first 5 games and then conceded 19 in the next 11 before AVB was sacked. So it was getting worse. The same shambles at the back against the top 4 as under AVB with the occasional shambles against lesser opposition. The difference is when we concede 3 against West Ham we had Eriksen or Towsend trying to pick out our one hopelessly unsuited lone forward whereas now we're playing a different way and so we actually score some goals too. Horses for courses. It isn't brilliant but it isn't going to be when we lack creative players, we lack quality out wide, we are poor at full back etc etc.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This equates to 3 more goals conceded under Sherwood having had slightly tougher fixtures. So I really don't see how it is any worse and it remains an improvement from what he took over. We conceded just 1 goal in the first 5 games and then conceded 19 in the next 11 before AVB was sacked. So it was getting worse. The same shambles at the back against the top 4 as under AVB with the occasional shambles against lesser opposition. The difference is when we concede 3 against West Ham we had Eriksen or Towsend trying to pick out our one hopelessly unsuited lone forward whereas now we're playing a different way and so we actually score some goals too. Horses for courses. It isn't brilliant but it isn't going to be when we lack creative players, we lack quality out wide, we are poor at full back etc etc.

The only teams AVB didn't play were Southampton, Stoke and West Brom. Or have everyone else gotten a lot better since the first half of the season?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This equates to 3 more goals conceded under Sherwood having had slightly tougher fixtures. So I really don't see how it is any worse and it remains an improvement from what he took over. We conceded just 1 goal in the first 5 games and then conceded 19 in the next 11 before AVB was sacked. So it was getting worse. The same shambles at the back against the top 4 as under AVB with the occasional shambles against lesser opposition. The difference is when we concede 3 against West Ham we had Eriksen or Towsend trying to pick out our one hopelessly unsuited lone forward whereas now we're playing a different way and so we actually score some goals too. Horses for courses. It isn't brilliant but it isn't going to be when we lack creative players, we lack quality out wide, we are poor at full back etc etc.

That's not how you spell "you're right, my bad".

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The one positive I feel Tim has is his knowledge of the youth players and his willingness to utilise them - but that isn't enough for me if we're talking about someone with LVG's C.V. In an ideal World he or someone with that inside knowledge would work alongside a man such as LVG. I think if the opportunity arose, Tim would be foolish not to gain valuable experience next to a top experienced manager - perhaps he feels he is ready or perhaps his ego will not allow it? It's especially the case where LVG is also not scared to blood youngsters whereby his appointment should never be sniffed at. If Tim got a chance could he be like a LVG? We're not really in a position to gamble.

I think Sherwood would be exceptionally foolish to turn down the chance to work under LvG. He won't ever again get that kind of chance again, and it would be far better for him as a coach learning his trade then going off to Norwich or Blackburn.

I said yesterday that what I'd like to see is LvG mentoring Sherwood. Make it a decade-long project, with a handover somewhere in the middle. That way you have LvG getting instant improvement on the pitch, Baldini and Levy looking after medium/long term recruitment, and Sherwood gaining experience under a master before stepping up. That's what an actual joined-up plan would look like. That said, LvG, Sherwood, Levy and Baldini would be four big, big egos to accommodate.

 

[kanoute16]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well it doesn't look like Sherwood will get very much of an opportunity to extend the sample size.

Do you really think his tactics and our pattern of play have been good enough? What about the way we start games, conceeding early goals? Once or twice can be put down to individual errors but this is down to poor setup. Then there is the stupid things he says on a weekly basis, he obviously has contempt for the way the club is run, the players we have bought and is not able to keep things in house.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So does that show AVB was getting better results than the year before against the same opponents, and Sherwood is getting similar or worse?

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So does that show AVB was getting better results than the year before against the same opponents, and Sherwood is getting similar or worse?

If you compare against the same opponents, the loss to Liverpool left us 1 point behind last season. Right now we're poised to finish on the exact same total if win all our remaining games.