Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The position he found us in?
Your own comments suggest the position he found us in was perfectly respectable, the defeats against arsenal, city and Liverpool are acceptable because they have better players than us.
The anomalies being Saudi Sportswashing Machine and west ham, given The Saudi Sportswashing Machine game was one where the opposition goalkeeper recorded a premiership record for the number of saves, then by you reckoning the only unacceptable result would be the west ham home game.

Therefore I am asking you given your defence of Sherwood and his "failure" given at the time of AVB's sacking we were one point worse of from where we were last season, surely there was no need to make a change.

This is using the barometer you have given, so surely all of the above must apply for your defence of Sherwood to have any credibility?

You haven't disputed any if the facts I have put forward. I have deliberately NOT harked back to AVB. Sherwood was introduced immediately after a hammering at home to Liverpool with iirc Verts playing out of position at left back and centre backs of Dawson and ? Capoue and playing a suicidal high line against probably the fastest and most potent strike force in the PL. oh yes, everything was distinctly rosy when he took over.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Put a Bale back in our team and if he continued the blistering form of last year, he would make a difference too. if what Ginola said yesterday is true, he transformed at least 8 games singlehandedly. Sherwood doesn't have a Bale.

I'm pretty sure that's not true. If you can find the excellent post on here from a few months ago, all of our wins were broken down and that wasn't the case.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm pretty sure that's not true. If you can find the excellent post on here from a few months ago, all of our wins were broken down and that wasn't the case.

That is what Ginola said yesterday. So how many of his goals and assists did actually increase the number of points we secured last season? Sounds about right to me.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm pretty sure that's not true. If you can find the excellent post on here from a few months ago, all of our wins were broken down and that wasn't the case.

Eight of his goals were match winning goals, but I'm pretty certain there were at least 10 other guys involved in getting us into that position.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/3867-AVB/page267

Post 5330 here is a good breakdown of last season and Bale supposedly taking us there single-handedly. Good guy that poster is.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That is what Ginola said yesterday. So how many of his goals and assists did actually increase the number of points we secured last season? Sounds about right to me.

That's far from the same situation as changing a game singlehandedly.

Some of those goals would likely have come from positions where you'd expect there to be another player capable of scoring that same goal from that position had Bale not been stood there.

How many matches were won by Bale goals that only Bale would/could have scored? A lot fewer than 8 is my recollection of when it was broken down.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Take Bale's goals away and you take 25 points away. Only RVP's goals were worth more last season.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Take Bale's goals away and you take 25 points away. Only RVP's goals were worth more last season.

That only works if you assume Bale was sent off in every match. In other circumstances there'd have been another attacking player in his place.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That only works if you assume Bale was sent off in every match. In other circumstances there'd have been another attacking player in his place.

Yes, another attacking player nowhere near as good as Bale. We'd have lost a bundle of points, not all 25, but a lot. As much as you don't want to believe it, Clint Dempsey couldn't have done what Bale did last year if he was AVB's assigned "main man".

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

are people still banging that drum ffs :ross:

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes, another attacking player nowhere near as good as Bale. We'd have lost a bundle of points, not all 25, but a lot. As much as you don't want to believe it, Clint Dempsey couldn't have done what Bale did last year if he was AVB's assigned "main man".

I'm pretty sure even you would agree that AVB wouldn't play a "give the ball to Bale" tactic if Bale hadn't been on the pitch.

Although at times, Ade seemed to be playing a "pass the ball to a player on the bench" tactic, I'll admit.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/3867-AVB/page267

Post 5330 here is a good breakdown of last season and Bale supposedly taking us there single-handedly. Good guy that poster is.

That post only deals with your version of your defense of "we were turgid and only saved by a last minute Bale wonder goal". I think you list four. So in these four games alone we got 8 extra points.

Of course, these are only a small subset of the importance of Bales goals. See Rossi22 above for a more realistic assessment.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That post only deals with your version of your defense of "we were turgid and only saved by a last minute Bale wonder goal". I think you list four. So in these four games alone we got 8 extra points.

Of course, these are only a small subset of the importance of Bales goals. See Rossi22 above for a more realistic assessment.

The assessment where he just takes away all the points from matches where Bale scored in a 1 goal margin match?

I don't believe for a second you're stupid enough to think that's an accurate way of measuring a player's worth to a team.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That post only deals with your version of your defense of "we were turgid and only saved by a last minute Bale wonder goal". I think you list four. So in these four games alone we got 8 extra points.

Of course, these are only a small subset of the importance of Bales goals. See Rossi22 above for a more realistic assessment.

I don't know why people seem intent on rewriting history. The football under AVB last season was largely horrible, yes there will have been a few decent performances but on the whole it was bad - especially home games. We had Bale though, probably the 3rd best player in the world so it was overlooked ... go and watch Bale's 26 goals video and just see how many of them are down to his own individual brilliance, it's not like he was on the end of lovely sweeping moves, it's was basically give Bale the ball and get out of the way. This season was a continuation of the last but obviously no Bale to paper over the cracks, the football was actually even worse and that's why he got the sack. There was a brief renaissance under Tim but has long since passed, we're scoring more freely but it's basically just kamikaze lottery football with no discernable pattern of play. AVB's football was rubbish but I think you could see what we were trying to do, we just weren't achieving it. Either way, I can't wait for this season to end and to start afresh next year. I also hope we no longer have to hear about AVB's pros and cons compared to Tim's pros and cons.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/3867-AVB/page267

Post 5330 here is a good breakdown of last season and Bale supposedly taking us there single-handedly. Good guy that poster is.

but that's all opinion? Scaramanga made it seem like the poster brought forward some conclusive evidence to prove Bale didn't single handedly save us. All that post illustrates is your opinion on how well we played in the games..proves nothing.

EDIT: Conclusive evidence or at least solid evidence is what i brought forward when some jabroni was trying to argue that Liverpool rely on Suarez more than we did bale. I dug up their win/loss record without him (as well as ours with/without bale). Their goals scored with/without him (same with Bale). I mean that's conclusive evidence.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

this whole 'rewriting of history' thing which comes up with regards to last season is a load of nonsense - the posters saying they felt we played well, as far as i remember, were saying the same thing at the time, meaning this turn of phrase is way off the mark and is a bit of a cheap shot really. it's a difference of opinion - if some of you were a little more open to accepting the idea that your take on events isn't the only view to be held then maybe we'd see more discussion on the topic rather than endless repeating of the same points.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Werr there any posts before March time of last year (when we sort of passed the ball to Bale) mentioning our style of football? Nothing springs to mind, especially when we were on that ridiculous run. A lot of people on here rewrite history, we know this.

When we were winning games last year, no one complained, or moaned about style of play. Towards the end of the season I remember the pass to Bale and let him score comments.

It only seems, in my memory anyway, that it was this season we started consistently moaning about the way we played football under avb, and only that started happening properly when we started losing games.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Werr there any posts before March time of last year (when we sort of passed the ball to Bale) mentioning our style of football? Nothing springs to mind, especially when we were on that ridiculous run. A lot of people on here rewrite history, we know this.

When we were winning games last year, no one complained, or moaned about style of play. Towards the end of the season I remember the pass to Bale and let him score comments.

It only seems, in my memory anyway, that it was this season we started consistently moaning about the way we played football under avb, and only that started happening properly when we started losing games.

I don't agree. I remember countless posts last season about how pathetic it was that we kept relying on him saving us every week.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

whats pathetic about having a stand out player scoring winning goals?

i still struggle to comprehend this train of thought

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't agree. I remember countless posts last season about how pathetic it was that we kept relying on him saving us every week.

That's why I mentioned before March when he really started winning games for us with last minute screamers.