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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
personally i think this happened when we missed out in 11/12 - and it has been a rebuilding job ever since - the emergence of Bale as a world class talent masking the work that was needed on the squad.
personally i think this happened when we missed out in 11/12 - and it has been a rebuilding job ever since - the emergence of Bale as a world class talent masking the work that was needed on the squad.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Agreed and agreed.
It's been the same for ages it feels, certainly under any manager I can remember. Hard to see how exactly it will change.
Part of why I wanted Bielsa in December and why I'm very positive about van Gaal despite some of the negative reports about his/their attitude and approach. We need someone a bit no nonsense, someone who won't accept stuff like this.
I think Ramos was spot on about some things, he couldn't communicate that for **** and he was flat out wrong on a lot of other issues. But the attitude that allowed us to have players well above their best fitness weight is the same attitude that allows us to start today's game like we did, not this game in isolation, but how these games look all too familiar.
If Sherwood has it in him to change it given time I don't know. He was part of a league title winning Blackburn side, he's seen a lot in football. I have no idea if he can or can't.
Agreed and agreed.
It's been the same for ages it feels, certainly under any manager I can remember. Hard to see how exactly it will change.
Part of why I wanted Bielsa in December and why I'm very positive about van Gaal despite some of the negative reports about his/their attitude and approach. We need someone a bit no nonsense, someone who won't accept stuff like this.
I think Ramos was spot on about some things, he couldn't communicate that for **** and he was flat out wrong on a lot of other issues. But the attitude that allowed us to have players well above their best fitness weight is the same attitude that allows us to start today's game like we did, not this game in isolation, but how these games look all too familiar.
If Sherwood has it in him to change it given time I don't know. He was part of a league title winning Blackburn side, he's seen a lot in football. I have no idea if he can or can't.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I think last season we further down the line, yes bale covered misfiring strikers but defensively we were solid and we had a dominant midfield, it looked like the squad was at the tweak stage, had we added Moutinho and/or Willian (just examples we were heavily linked with where another million here or there may have made a difference) things could be so different now
I think last season we further down the line, yes bale covered misfiring strikers but defensively we were solid and we had a dominant midfield, it looked like the squad was at the tweak stage, had we added Moutinho and/or Willian (just examples we were heavily linked with where another million here or there may have made a difference) things could be so different now
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I agree. We haven't been able to build on qualifying for the CL in 09/10. The sale of Bale in the summer was the end of the era in terms of that squad. The replacements brought in was a last roll of the dice. Looking back the only one that appeared odd to me was Chadli but we did need another wide man. On paper correct decisions.
I personally think that's it for now and we'll see more major surgery in the summer. As long as we continue with the sensible approach of buying young players with potential we will come again and make the top 4 but we might be waiting for a few years to see that come to fruition.
I agree. We haven't been able to build on qualifying for the CL in 09/10. The sale of Bale in the summer was the end of the era in terms of that squad. The replacements brought in was a last roll of the dice. Looking back the only one that appeared odd to me was Chadli but we did need another wide man. On paper correct decisions.
I personally think that's it for now and we'll see more major surgery in the summer. As long as we continue with the sensible approach of buying young players with potential we will come again and make the top 4 but we might be waiting for a few years to see that come to fruition.
Armchair Expert
Vedran Corluka
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Thats true, the core of the team is crumbling into dust.
However, Rogers is showing at Liverpool that a malaise doesn't have to be terminal.
We need to identify a core of players we feel we can build on moving forwards.
I think the transitory feeling around the club is absolutely shocking. Back in the day when we were losing 11-7 against the Dog and Duck with Pleat at the helm it was almost like 'ah well at least its a ride, we've been shiit forever anyway.'
This time its really, really dangerous. We have a group of maybe 4-5 players who are genuine quality, and the farcical nature of the club is/has driven them all to the exists.
I cannot for the life of me see lloris and Vertonghen still being here next year, which is massively problematic.
I think regardless of how Sherwood does now he needs to go. Yes we need a spacegoat - someone we can bundle up all the craap decisions, bad board room level cocck ups, tie it round someones neck and throw them over the side of the boat. And that person is going to have to be Sherwood.
I presume Baldini is being tasked with assessing who is mentally in the correct frame of mind to still be at the club next season - if he isn't then he should be.
The dead wood, the chaff thats clogging up our squad needs shipping out. We all think we have a deep squad, yet when any of the reserves play they are fooking useless.
Naughton, Rose etc. Gone. Resolve the futures of Chadli, Siggurdson, Townsend, Holtby, Dawson and the like. free up some breathing space so we can for once see the wood for the trees.
Then we need to assess who we have that we can build around. For me that will be Walker, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela possibly Soldado and Ade. Other than that I can't see anyone willing to stay, or anyone thats shown enough to make me think they can be the bedrock of the team. Dembele admittedly isnt the best player in the world, be he is by far the best of our underperforming midfield clones, and the only one i feel is possibly going to hang around long term. That we haven't got an adequate partner to compliment him isn't his fault.
The next important issue is we need a manager with real fuucking gravitas and balls to come and lay down the fuucking law from day 1. He needs a 5 year contract, full backing from the board and clear understanding of how his partnership with Baldini will work. A van Gaal, a De Boer. When things aren't going perfectly and we aren't top of the league we need to bight the bullet, get onside, suck it up and believe.
Re-coup whatever we can after this summers disastrous spending and let them manager evolve his squad, bringing in 1 or 2 players per window MAX. The players he will have to work with at the club may not be the best anymore, but at least were not going to have any players angling for moves to real madrid for a while (after the departures of vert and lloris wherever they go).
Appoint a manager with a clear brief, drop the ridiculous noises that come out of the club about champions league, levy fuucks off back into the background, shuts his trap and puts the gun away.
If we come 10 once, so be it. Would coming 10th with an evolving team under a progressive, proven manager committed to the club have been any less enjoyable than watching this shower and finishing 5th or 6th like were going to? Its going to be a case of taking a couple of steps back to go forwards.
I can't see any other way forwards given that we have sunk so low so quickly. Pack up all the discontent and remains from the core of the last team, fresh start and go again.
We've wasted numerous chances to kick but there's no point flogging the dying embers of bastardised team with remnants from a side that nearly made the breakthrough but didn't.
IMHO of course.
Thats true, the core of the team is crumbling into dust.
However, Rogers is showing at Liverpool that a malaise doesn't have to be terminal.
We need to identify a core of players we feel we can build on moving forwards.
I think the transitory feeling around the club is absolutely shocking. Back in the day when we were losing 11-7 against the Dog and Duck with Pleat at the helm it was almost like 'ah well at least its a ride, we've been shiit forever anyway.'
This time its really, really dangerous. We have a group of maybe 4-5 players who are genuine quality, and the farcical nature of the club is/has driven them all to the exists.
I cannot for the life of me see lloris and Vertonghen still being here next year, which is massively problematic.
I think regardless of how Sherwood does now he needs to go. Yes we need a spacegoat - someone we can bundle up all the craap decisions, bad board room level cocck ups, tie it round someones neck and throw them over the side of the boat. And that person is going to have to be Sherwood.
I presume Baldini is being tasked with assessing who is mentally in the correct frame of mind to still be at the club next season - if he isn't then he should be.
The dead wood, the chaff thats clogging up our squad needs shipping out. We all think we have a deep squad, yet when any of the reserves play they are fooking useless.
Naughton, Rose etc. Gone. Resolve the futures of Chadli, Siggurdson, Townsend, Holtby, Dawson and the like. free up some breathing space so we can for once see the wood for the trees.
Then we need to assess who we have that we can build around. For me that will be Walker, Dembele, Eriksen, Lamela possibly Soldado and Ade. Other than that I can't see anyone willing to stay, or anyone thats shown enough to make me think they can be the bedrock of the team. Dembele admittedly isnt the best player in the world, be he is by far the best of our underperforming midfield clones, and the only one i feel is possibly going to hang around long term. That we haven't got an adequate partner to compliment him isn't his fault.
The next important issue is we need a manager with real fuucking gravitas and balls to come and lay down the fuucking law from day 1. He needs a 5 year contract, full backing from the board and clear understanding of how his partnership with Baldini will work. A van Gaal, a De Boer. When things aren't going perfectly and we aren't top of the league we need to bight the bullet, get onside, suck it up and believe.
Re-coup whatever we can after this summers disastrous spending and let them manager evolve his squad, bringing in 1 or 2 players per window MAX. The players he will have to work with at the club may not be the best anymore, but at least were not going to have any players angling for moves to real madrid for a while (after the departures of vert and lloris wherever they go).
Appoint a manager with a clear brief, drop the ridiculous noises that come out of the club about champions league, levy fuucks off back into the background, shuts his trap and puts the gun away.
If we come 10 once, so be it. Would coming 10th with an evolving team under a progressive, proven manager committed to the club have been any less enjoyable than watching this shower and finishing 5th or 6th like were going to? Its going to be a case of taking a couple of steps back to go forwards.
I can't see any other way forwards given that we have sunk so low so quickly. Pack up all the discontent and remains from the core of the last team, fresh start and go again.
We've wasted numerous chances to kick but there's no point flogging the dying embers of bastardised team with remnants from a side that nearly made the breakthrough but didn't.
IMHO of course.
Last edited:
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Great post but I want to see a younger manager than bielsa or van gaal. I still want to see what Tim can do before I completely write him off though, but if not him I want to give FDB a go.
Great post but I want to see a younger manager than bielsa or van gaal. I still want to see what Tim can do before I completely write him off though, but if not him I want to give FDB a go.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
If Ramos really did see some of our players in McDonalds after training then i really do worry. I on occasions participate in amateur cycle races and i would never go anywhere near junk food.
Yes i agree we could do with a no nonsense approach.
If Ramos really did see some of our players in McDonalds after training then i really do worry. I on occasions participate in amateur cycle races and i would never go anywhere near junk food.
Yes i agree we could do with a no nonsense approach.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I honestly feel we need a bit of fire and brimstone sometimes.
FDB walked into a well run club and although he might have improved them the club has been there. Van Gaal has worked at some of the biggest clubs in the world, he has some very strong opinions on what is right and what is wrong and if something is wrong in his eyes he won't stand for it and he'll change it. He might not be a long term solution, but he might be someone who can uproot a culture that needs changing.
Bielsa has shown that he can make players work super hard for him, he can instill a system and work rate in a group of players. He's high risk and there's probably a slight tendency towards collapsing in under the need for supreme work rate. For the half a season project we had he seemed perfect to me, but I know it won't ever happen.
I'm not writing off Sherwood. I think he knows more about what's going on than he's telling the press. He's been thrust into a difficult situation and can't be expected to sort out long lasting problems over a short period of time. If he gets to keep his job past the summer I'll support him. But my hopes will be higher with van Gaal.
I honestly feel we need a bit of fire and brimstone sometimes.
FDB walked into a well run club and although he might have improved them the club has been there. Van Gaal has worked at some of the biggest clubs in the world, he has some very strong opinions on what is right and what is wrong and if something is wrong in his eyes he won't stand for it and he'll change it. He might not be a long term solution, but he might be someone who can uproot a culture that needs changing.
Bielsa has shown that he can make players work super hard for him, he can instill a system and work rate in a group of players. He's high risk and there's probably a slight tendency towards collapsing in under the need for supreme work rate. For the half a season project we had he seemed perfect to me, but I know it won't ever happen.
I'm not writing off Sherwood. I think he knows more about what's going on than he's telling the press. He's been thrust into a difficult situation and can't be expected to sort out long lasting problems over a short period of time. If he gets to keep his job past the summer I'll support him. But my hopes will be higher with van Gaal.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
The malaise IMHO is all about not getting our choice of manager/head coach right. It is not an easy decision granted but we need a manager who comes in not just as first team coach, that's too narrow a remit IMO, but takes on the management right through all levels of the club and changes the mentality from top to bottom.
The malaise IMHO is all about not getting our choice of manager/head coach right. It is not an easy decision granted but we need a manager who comes in not just as first team coach, that's too narrow a remit IMO, but takes on the management right through all levels of the club and changes the mentality from top to bottom.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I'm not sure if a top to bottom change is needed. Our youth team seems to have taken many steps in the right direction in recent years.
I'm more sceptical of some of the old guard in the first team dressing room than youngsters coming up through the ranks in terms of mentality.
I'm not sure if a top to bottom change is needed. Our youth team seems to have taken many steps in the right direction in recent years.
I'm more sceptical of some of the old guard in the first team dressing room than youngsters coming up through the ranks in terms of mentality.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
i agree in part with what you're saying here although i don't think we're quite in as bad of a position as you seem to make out - this post and tone would have been better placed either the summer before last or at the beginning of this season.
i genuinely think we have a decent squad, with depth in most positions, some fantastic potential in others and a couple of already great players - i think we're in the tweak phase right now rather than rebuild from scratch. Im not particularly fearful of losing Lloris or Vertonghen this summer - they may make efforts to leave should big(ger) clubs come in with serious efforts but we're in a position to rebuff any such moves, for now at least.
Lloris,Vertonghen,Kaboul,Sandro,Dembele,Eriksen,Lamela are potentially 7 players worthy of a top 4 starting XI - Adebayor as well if he stays and can produce an 11/12 type season consistently again -those are all good footballers and should be able to adapt/fit in to any incoming managers plans/tactics - so anyone coming in will have a great base to build from (IMV) get the right guy in the summer, buy the players HE needs to make his system work and i think we can be hopeful of him not taking too long to get the team performing.
buying so many players, especially from abroad, was a risky move last summer and in hindsight may not have been the best approach - however this season doesn't need to be a waste - if we keep the bulk of the squad together, tweak where necessary then we could start the season we a largely settled and balanced squad.
i agree in part with what you're saying here although i don't think we're quite in as bad of a position as you seem to make out - this post and tone would have been better placed either the summer before last or at the beginning of this season.
i genuinely think we have a decent squad, with depth in most positions, some fantastic potential in others and a couple of already great players - i think we're in the tweak phase right now rather than rebuild from scratch. Im not particularly fearful of losing Lloris or Vertonghen this summer - they may make efforts to leave should big(ger) clubs come in with serious efforts but we're in a position to rebuff any such moves, for now at least.
Lloris,Vertonghen,Kaboul,Sandro,Dembele,Eriksen,Lamela are potentially 7 players worthy of a top 4 starting XI - Adebayor as well if he stays and can produce an 11/12 type season consistently again -those are all good footballers and should be able to adapt/fit in to any incoming managers plans/tactics - so anyone coming in will have a great base to build from (IMV) get the right guy in the summer, buy the players HE needs to make his system work and i think we can be hopeful of him not taking too long to get the team performing.
buying so many players, especially from abroad, was a risky move last summer and in hindsight may not have been the best approach - however this season doesn't need to be a waste - if we keep the bulk of the squad together, tweak where necessary then we could start the season we a largely settled and balanced squad.
Armchair Expert
Vedran Corluka
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Fair enough. I disagree though about the players you mention as key for next season. I think Lloris and Vertonghen are gone, I think bids will come and they will be agitate for moves. I don't think we can seriously count Kaboul as a decent prospect for next season.
In my reckoning that leaves us Sandro, Dembele, Eriksen and Lamela from your listed players. I would also suggest that Sandro is very injury prone, Eriksen hasn't set the league on fire, whilst Lamela hasn't played and may also agitate for a move.
I've included them in my list of players for next season too, but i dont think that those players would look very threatening to many of clubs supporters.
I think the malaise runs deep, we have players in the prime of thier careers who won't want to be wasting time treading water with a team blatantly not capable of getting CL football.
I think we're going to have a much bigger job on our hands in the Summer than you allude to in your post.
Hopefully I'm completely wrong.
Fair enough. I disagree though about the players you mention as key for next season. I think Lloris and Vertonghen are gone, I think bids will come and they will be agitate for moves. I don't think we can seriously count Kaboul as a decent prospect for next season.
In my reckoning that leaves us Sandro, Dembele, Eriksen and Lamela from your listed players. I would also suggest that Sandro is very injury prone, Eriksen hasn't set the league on fire, whilst Lamela hasn't played and may also agitate for a move.
I've included them in my list of players for next season too, but i dont think that those players would look very threatening to many of clubs supporters.
I think the malaise runs deep, we have players in the prime of thier careers who won't want to be wasting time treading water with a team blatantly not capable of getting CL football.
I think we're going to have a much bigger job on our hands in the Summer than you allude to in your post.
Hopefully I'm completely wrong.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
So people are saying Verts and Lloris show signs thy will be off in the summer....so is TS losing the dressing room like AVB apparently did?
So people are saying Verts and Lloris show signs thy will be off in the summer....so is TS losing the dressing room like AVB apparently did?
Mulletperm
Mauricio Taricco
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
There was worrying signs today, particularly from Vertonghen.
There was worrying signs today, particularly from Vertonghen.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Rogers also turned down our job because he said he wouldn't be given enough time/suppport to implement his project. Rogers was also junior to AVB in the Chelsea setup.
Rogers also turned down our job because he said he wouldn't be given enough time/suppport to implement his project. Rogers was also junior to AVB in the Chelsea setup.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I would say yes i would think the players think they are wasting their time because they are playing for a guy who will probably be out of a job in a few months. This is all an impression no facts to back that up.
I would say yes i would think the players think they are wasting their time because they are playing for a guy who will probably be out of a job in a few months. This is all an impression no facts to back that up.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Also seems silly in hindsight to have Holtby loaned out just when we need a bigger squad. He's been doing very well at Fulham and showing his creative side, has set up a lot of chances and been far and away their best player since he joined.
There is an argument it's not hard to star there given their performances but he also showed that creativity here as well. He also seems to do less of the headless chicken run around too, makes me wonder if because of his work rate he was asked to press and move about so much.
Also seems silly in hindsight to have Holtby loaned out just when we need a bigger squad. He's been doing very well at Fulham and showing his creative side, has set up a lot of chances and been far and away their best player since he joined.
There is an argument it's not hard to star there given their performances but he also showed that creativity here as well. He also seems to do less of the headless chicken run around too, makes me wonder if because of his work rate he was asked to press and move about so much.