Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I dunno, seems to me we signed players for the long term where we may have been better off taking a win now mentality

that's what we need to do though, in order to steal a march on our rivals - we can't compete with them for finished product players, the only way we can realistically build a better team than them is to buy players who have several seasons worth of improving to do (OR players is less glamorous leagues who are less of a sure thing) and hope that they improve to the standard we envisage.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The first eleven today was curious. This was a day for Eriksen, this was a day for two wingers…Norwich were like wounded animal, and if you want to win you have to put them to the sword from the start, not set up to protect yourself from their last, desperate struggle for life.

Having said that, I think Sherwood was let down by a few seniors. Dembele and Vertonghen were a disgrace with regards to their attitudes, and frankly, i was so angry at Vertonghen that I'd rather drop him and sell him if he's going to **** and moan like that/not show up. Dembele had a chance to take the game by the scruff today and didn't. These players NEED to show up. These are the games we NEED to win. I would also like to know how on earth Sasha Baron Cohen gets on the pitch today ahead of Eriksen or Townsend when Capoue fractured his little toe-nail or whatever the **** he did…yes, Tim showed a bit of naivety today, but he was also let down by seniors who (frankly) were terrible.

But it's two way. Losing the dressing room is the point of no return for a manager

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Our defensive shape is all over the place and our passing and movement going forward is generally poor. We need someone to conjure up something special, like Bale last season. If Ade doesn't maintain his conversion ratio until the end of the season it's looking bleak.

That's been a problem for most of the season.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

that's what we need to do though, in order to steal a march on our rivals - we can't compete with them for finished product players, the only way we can realistically build a better team than them is to buy players who have several seasons worth of improving to do (OR players is less glamorous leagues who are less of a sure thing) and hope that they improve to the standard we envisage.

...and coming from the EL thread, we've just been talking about how we need to improve the squad to be able to play in Europe. So you can see why we - effectively diluted - the first 11 for a bigger squad.

This season is a transitional year. If we only make 2 or 3 changes over the summer, then we might see some of these newer players settle and perform.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The first eleven today was curious. This was a day for Eriksen, this was a day for two wingers…Norwich were like wounded animal, and if you want to win you have to put them to the sword from the start, not set up to protect yourself from their last, desperate struggle for life.

Having said that, I think Sherwood was let down by a few seniors. Dembele and Vertonghen were a disgrace with regards to their attitudes, and frankly, i was so angry at Vertonghen that I'd rather drop him and sell him if he's going to **** and moan like that/not show up. Dembele had a chance to take the game by the scruff today and didn't. These players NEED to show up. These are the games we NEED to win. I would also like to know how on earth Sasha Baron Cohen gets on the pitch today ahead of Eriksen or Townsend when Capoue fractured his little toe-nail or whatever the **** he did…yes, Tim showed a bit of naivety today, but he was also let down by seniors who (frankly) were terrible.

I agree with all that. I just don't understand why TS has suddenly done a complete 180 degree about turn from the attractive attacking football that characterized his early games and delivered some great results?

Can't fathom it myself for love nor money.

Why not two forwards?

Why no Eriksen?

Why a plethora of underachieving CMs all on the field together against a side struggling for goals?

Why take a virtual full team to Dnipro? Don't we learn anything from hangovers from Long European jaunts?

Why persist with the same warm up routine, when it has shown that we don't start playing till the second half?

Why leave Ade isolated up top for so long?

and after bringing on Soldado, why wasn't Lennon playing wide?

Serious questions for Tim.

 

[the dza]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That was the sort of performance that I grew to hate under AVB, the type where we looked as if we wouldn't score if we played for 3 hours. Sherwood seems to be offering pretty much the same type of football, bar the fact that he relies on Ade having a good day. If Ade isn't on fire, then we will be sh1t. He also seems to be yet another manager hell-bent on picking the same centre midfielders for mid-week games and then wondering why we look lethargic come the weekend.

I am beginning to think that apart from about a dozen managers in the world, the rest are a bunch of inter-changeable chancers who would get similar results. We could have managed the team via this forum this season and finished in the top 6 or 7, which is probably where we'll finish now.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

...and coming from the EL thread, we've just been talking about how we need to improve the squad to be able to play in Europe. So you can see why we - effectively diluted - the first 11 for a bigger squad.

This season is a transitional year. If we only make 2 or 3 changes over the summer, then we might see some of these newer players settle and perform.

Im not sure i get your initial point? after last season it was quite evident we needed a stronger squad across the board and to improve our first XI in certain areas. we lost the one player everyone said was keeping us where we were - and now the squad minus that one player is in the same position as last season, with potential to improve in several areas.

i think as a squad we're in a better place overall when compared to last season. first team wise we have Eriksen and hopefully Lamela who both have the potential to become great players in their own rights, who knows what effect them finding their feet for us will have to the team.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree with all that. I just don't understand why TS has suddenly done a complete 180 degree about turn from the attractive attacking football that characterized his early games and delivered some great results?

Can't fathom it myself for love nor money.

Why not two forwards?

Why no Eriksen?

Why a plethora of underachieving CMs all on the field together against a side struggling for goals?

Why take a virtual full team to Dnipro? Don't we learn anything from hangovers from Long European jaunts?

Why persist with the same warm up routine, when it has shown that we don't start playing till the second half?

Why leave Ade isolated up top for so long?

and after bringing on Soldado, why wasn't Lennon playing wide?

Serious questions for Tim.

I think that the two forwards was just to shake things up. The formation that we are playing now is the same that he favoured with the development squad and I always thought that he was likely to move towards it. I do not think that the issue is the formation, I think that the issue is too many good but unexceptional and a bit samey players.

 

[suffolkspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The first eleven today was curious. This was a day for Eriksen, this was a day for two wingers…Norwich were like wounded animal, and if you want to win you have to put them to the sword from the start, not set up to protect yourself from their last, desperate struggle for life.

This was exactly what my City supporting mates at the game said. They thought we would go after them from the off, attack them play with width and go for the jugular. This is a team who's manager (probably a bit unfairly) had been warned by the chief executive that he risked being sacked if they lost today. Imagine the pressure Hughton and the team must have been under. They thought we gave them too much respect.

That is what concerned me most about today. This was a team who have been struggling for results, who have been floating around the relegation zone all season and we set up not to lose, especially after the teams above us had all won. I can fully accept that some players didn't play well and to be honest i think we have seen some shocking efforts from some of our supposed top players this year but to no go for the kill today in my opinion was just stupid.

If Eriksen wasn't injured why he wasn't bought on was beyond me. In fact why things weren't changed within a minute or 2 of us going a goal down i haven't got a clue.

Its been a complete circus of a season across the board in my opinion and i'm someone who is usually naively optimistic.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that the two forwards was just to shake things up. The formation that we are playing now is the same that he favoured with the development squad and I always thought that he was likely to move towards it. I do not think that the issue is the formation, I think that the issue is too many good but unexceptional and a bit samey players.

Agreed.

Let's also remember that a very similar selection beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine 4-0, it's not like it never works. And we've been picking up points regularly since Sherwood moved to a lone striker.

With Bentaleb having a poor day the number of proper effective pass and move players in our midfield totaled 0. And we didn't have the intensity and running to play a more direct style successfully.

We needed someone to lift us today and no one did. Looking at both our more experienced players and the manager. Perhaps when Sandro returns...

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

switching to 433 has brought about two very good performances in Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea away - now i hadn't seen much of Sherwoods THFC prior to the Swansea game as i was abroad but id be interested how those two performances rank alongside those where we played with 2 forwards....

anyone?

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

switching to 433 has brought about two very good performances in Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea away - now i hadn't seen much of Sherwoods THFC prior to the Swansea game as i was abroad but id be interested how those two performances rank alongside those where we played with 2 forwards....

anyone?

The only game where I thought Soldado and Ade played well together was the Southampton game

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The only game where I thought Soldado and Ade played well together was the Southampton game

Stoke and utd away? I'd say over half the games they played together they've looked a good partnership.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The first eleven today was curious. This was a day for Eriksen, this was a day for two wingers…Norwich were like wounded animal, and if you want to win you have to put them to the sword from the start, not set up to protect yourself from their last, desperate struggle for life.

Having said that, I think Sherwood was let down by a few seniors. Dembele and Vertonghen were a disgrace with regards to their attitudes, and frankly, i was so angry at Vertonghen that I'd rather drop him and sell him if he's going to **** and moan like that/not show up. Dembele had a chance to take the game by the scruff today and didn't. These players NEED to show up. These are the games we NEED to win. I would also like to know how on earth Sasha Baron Cohen gets on the pitch today ahead of Eriksen or Townsend when Capoue fractured his little toe-nail or whatever the **** he did…yes, Tim showed a bit of naivety today, but he was also let down by seniors who (frankly) were terrible.

Ive noticed this whenever he ha splayed this season - his body language disgusts me. Whilst he is a very good defender I think a lot of his performances have been utter shocking yet he gets away with it.

Tim made a few mistakes today but the players get away with murder and its about time they took some criticism as a Manager can only do so much

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The only game where I thought Soldado and Ade played well together was the Southampton game

imo the team as a whole played better with two forwards. We looked more dangerous going forward until TS started reverting back to one up top

433 hasnt made us any more solid at the back, if anything we are more vunerable

id play Ade and Soldado until the end of the season.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

imo the team as a whole played better with two forwards. We looked more dangerous going forward until TS started reverting back to one up top

West Ham H 1-2
Southampton A 2-3
WBA H 1-1
Stoke H 3-0
United A 1-2
Arsenal A 0-2
Palace H 2-0 (did we play 2 up top in this one?)

where would you rank our Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea games in with that lot in an attacking sense?

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But it's two way. Losing the dressing room is the point of no return for a manager

Right, I wouldn't disagree. But when managerS keep 'losing' the same players, then we must surely look at the players directly involved? Those two count in that scenario...

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

West Ham H 1-2
Southampton A 2-3
WBA H 1-1
Stoke H 3-0
United A 1-2
Arsenal A 0-2
Palace H 2-0 (did we play 2 up top in this one?)

where would you rank our Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea games in with that lot in an attacking sense?

They were both good wins, id rank them highly alongside the Utd, Saints and Stoke games............i think ive said many times that i personally prefer two up top, I liked how Ade and Soldado were playing until TS had a change of heart, and we should go with the following team/formation for as many games as possible ( i dont mind Bentaleb being in for either Paulinho or Dembele)

..................Lloris
Walker...Kaboul...Verts...Rose
................Capoue
........Paulinho....Dembele
................Eriksen
.........Soldado..Adebayor

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This was exactly what my City supporting mates at the game said. They thought we would go after them from the off, attack them play with width and go for the jugular. This is a team who's manager (probably a bit unfairly) had been warned by the chief executive that he risked being sacked if they lost today. Imagine the pressure Hughton and the team must have been under. They thought we gave them too much respect.

That is what concerned me most about today. This was a team who have been struggling for results, who have been floating around the relegation zone all season and we set up not to lose, especially after the teams above us had all won. I can fully accept that some players didn't play well and to be honest i think we have seen some shocking efforts from some of our supposed top players this year but to no go for the kill today in my opinion was just stupid.

If Eriksen wasn't injured why he wasn't bought on was beyond me. In fact why things weren't changed within a minute or 2 of us going a goal down i haven't got a clue.

Its been a complete circus of a season across the board in my opinion and i'm someone who is usually naively optimistic.

Me too, absolutely. But I am really starting to sense that our club needs a root and branch change if we ever want to be anything more than we are. I think I might well have to accept that we are what we are, because I do not see the sort of changes coming which we need.

There was something about today's 'performance' which absolutely floored me, and looking back, I think it was how totally, utterly flat, toothless and disinterested we were for the first 30 mins. That Norwich side could've been killed in that first 30 mins, at the very least put under relentless pressure, but our whole tempo and attitude was third gear. A bunch of those players got a rest from midweek travel BTW…funny when we talk about travel affecting performance. I work with people who will arrive many thousands of miles the night of an engagement, fulfil that engagement with a SERIOUS degree of class and then move on another few hours to the next engagement via jet, yet even if a little tired, they NEVER waiver in their COMMITTMENT to performance. It's in the mind at this stage of the season, sorry, it is…and we do not have the mentality. Depressing.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

that's what we need to do though, in order to steal a march on our rivals - we can't compete with them for finished product players, the only way we can realistically build a better team than them is to buy players who have several seasons worth of improving to do (OR players is less glamorous leagues who are less of a sure thing) and hope that they improve to the standard we envisage.

I'm happy with that as a long term system, but we were so so close, one little push in the right place could have elevated us for a decade

it feels like we've thrown away 5 years work