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The youth players/on-loan thread 2015-16

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Gutter Boy said:
Just a minor point - King had been playing for the first team for 5 years (debut 1999) before Naybet arrived (2004). He was playing for England from 2002 and had his most famous performance against France (Euro 2004) pre-Naybet.

In terms of perspective, are people not as worried about McGee being our 3rd GK or Pritchard being Eriksen's back-up at #10? For me 4th CB can be a development role. We are just used to Redknapp's stockpiling of players if we are expecting our 4th or 5th choices to be senior players.
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His debut came in 1999. In May. As a sub. Playing left back. For a team far inferior to our current team with different ambitions. That's very different to making 2CV our current 4th choice centre back at this point.

He had an extended stint as a central midfielder at the start of his career. Again, rather different to making 2CV our current 4th choice CB.

Our current 3rd choice CB in Wimmer is clearly a "development role". Not worried about that. Just a question of if 2CV is currently ready to play at a decent level in the PL or not. I'm not sure he is. Pritchard having had a very good season in the Championship is much more proven. I don't think 3rd choice GK is the same as 4th choice CB either by the way. As a matter of fact it's clearly not.
 
braineclipse said:
I didn't get to watch the game yesterday and you obviously watch the youth/development games a lot more than me overall. But this "strange and counterproductive" description seems strange to me... Seems total football-esque getting players used to playing multiple positions and expecting all players regardless of position to have the fundamental technical ability to be effective in other positions on the pitch.

Seems to have been a part of our youth plan for some time from what I've seen/read.
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Some positional changes can benefit them but then total square pegs in round holes like Walkes as a #10 doesn't help anyone, he's just a functional defensive/box-to-box player and him playing there stunts any fluidity going forward, it was no surprise to me that we actually started to see some cohesion going forward once he went off.
 
Gutter Boy said:
In terms of perspective, are people not as worried about McGee being our 3rd GK or Pritchard being Eriksen's back-up at #10? For me 4th CB can be a development role. We are just used to Redknapp's stockpiling of players if we are expecting our 4th or 5th choices to be senior players.
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It's pretty typical for the 3rd choice keeper at most clubs to be a youth player and let's face it, the chances of him actually playing is pretty remote. I also don't know why you're so down on Pritchard, he has a lot of quality and has developed year on year so I have to question just how much you've seen of him. Unless I'm reading your post wrong in which case I apologise.
 
Yoof said:
Some positional changes can benefit them but then total square pegs in round holes like Walkes as a #10 doesn't help anyone, he's just a functional defensive/box-to-box player and him playing there stunts any fluidity going forward, it was no surprise to me that we actually started to see some cohesion going forward once he went off.
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Didn't watch the game yesterday so I'll just have to take your word for it that it was one step too far. I think in general erring on that side of getting players used to multiple roles is a good idea.
 
People need to realise that this is not football manager and players do not become prem standard after a couple of good seasons in the under 21's. CCV and Veljkovic play regularly for the under 21's and the 21's have one of the worst defensive records in the league. Surely if these 2 were both ready to be fourth choice, they would be a little better defensively? Considering they have KWP who some believe could step up soon next to them.
 
Yiddo said:
People need to realise that this is not football manager and players do not become prem standard after a couple of good seasons in the under 21's. CCV and Veljkovic play regularly for the under 21's and the 21's have one of the worst defensive records in the league. Surely if these 2 were both ready to be fourth choice, they would be a little better defensively? Considering they have KWP who some believe could step up soon next to them.
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IMO KWP is another who isn't yet close to being ready. Of all the under 21 players (ignoring Townsend who is in there for different reasons) I think that Harry Winks is the closest to being ready for the first team (and indeed I think a Championship loan would be a fantastic move for him right now)
 
Yiddo said:
People need to realise that this is not football manager and players do not become prem standard after a couple of good seasons in the under 21's. CCV and Veljkovic play regularly for the under 21's and the 21's have one of the worst defensive records in the league. Surely if these 2 were both ready to be fourth choice, they would be a little better defensively? Considering they have KWP who some believe could step up soon next to them.
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Good luck with that.
 
I happy to declare my immense respect for LK, but were I to judge him on his interviews he would be just another numpty.

Face to face with young players he is surely much more effective and inspirational.

I would rather he remains effective as an 'inspirer and steerer' than a 'studio wonk' like Ian Wright.
 
Yoof said:
It's pretty typical for the 3rd choice keeper at most clubs to be a youth player and let's face it, the chances of him actually playing is pretty remote. I also don't know why you're so down on Pritchard, he has a lot of quality and has developed year on year so I have to question just how much you've seen of him. Unless I'm reading your post wrong in which case I apologise.
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He isn't IIRC. He rates Pritchard and is trying to get some perpetuate but has chose a bad example.

I'd also add that Prichtard isn't cover at 10 Gutter Boy. That's one of many players who can play there and as Pritchard hasn't played a premier league game in earnest I'd argue he isn't cover for anyone yet
 
Yeah I do like Pritchard. My point was that it's good to back academy graduates in back-up roles, and we should consider it for our 4th CB too.

Pritchard actually played in our first match of the season. He's fallen massively behind Alli, Dembele and even Onomah now since his injury. But Poch didn't specifically replace Holtby/Paulinho with a specialist #10, which I saw as a sign of faith in Pritchard
 
Gutter Boy said:
Yeah I do like Pritchard. My point was that it's good to back academy graduates in back-up roles, and we should consider it for our 4th CB too.

Pritchard actually played in our first match of the season. He's fallen massively behind Alli, Dembele and even Onomah now since his injury. But Poch didn't specifically replace Holtby/Paulinho with a specialist #10, which I saw as a sign of faith in Pritchard
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Pritchard has been 'trusted' to provide backup to the first team after two successful loan spells, one in league 1 with Swindon and 1 in the Championship with Brentford.

Pritchard made 44 appearances in 2013/14 for Swindon and then 47 appearances in 2014/15 for Brentford. He also received nominations/won various player of the year awards while at those clubs. When promoted to the senior squad at the start of this season Pritchard was an extremely long way ahead of where Carter-Vickers is now.

Personally I think a Championship/League 1 loan move would be the best thing for Carter-Vickers development right now. However it isn't even guaranteed that he would get regular games for a team at that level.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Personally I think a Championship/League 1 loan move would be the best thing for Carter-Vickers development right now. However it isn't even guaranteed that he would get regular games for a team at that level.
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I was told that Poch wants to keep him here and have full control over his development, that was a while back though so things may have changed since then. Same case as Onomah, Poch has always insisted that he stays under his watch, it seems that we're looking to bring through the highest rated player in each year group without the need for loans.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Yeah I do like Pritchard. My point was that it's good to back academy graduates in back-up roles, and we should consider it for our 4th CB too.

Pritchard actually played in our first match of the season. He's fallen massively behind Alli, Dembele and even Onomah now since his injury. But Poch didn't specifically replace Holtby/Paulinho with a specialist #10, which I saw as a sign of faith in Pritchard
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Sorry GB, my mistake, thought you were saying Pritchard's not good enough to be a backup. I'm very confident that he's going to surprise a fair few when he returns, I just hope they give him a chance to get back up to speed first as he's been out a long time.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Yeah I do like Pritchard. My point was that it's good to back academy graduates in back-up roles, and we should consider it for our 4th CB too.

Pritchard actually played in our first match of the season. He's fallen massively behind Alli, Dembele and even Onomah now since his injury. But Poch didn't specifically replace Holtby/Paulinho with a specialist #10, which I saw as a sign of faith in Pritchard
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But Pritchard had loan spells to gain experience and to prove he is ready to fight for his place in the team, CCV hasn't. Just because he is a 18 years old playing in a lower Standard under 23 USA team does not make him ready to be our 4th choice. It only takes 2 injuries for him to be playing regularly and that could break him just as easily as it could make him.
 
Rorschach said:
TRACEY JOINS SPURS

The 17-year-old Ebbsfleet midfielder Shilow Tracey has joinedTottenham for an undisclosed fee.

Tracey, who according to the Evening Standard has been monitored by Charlton, Crystal Palace and West Ham, will go straight into the development squad.

http://www.skysports.com/transfer-centre
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Cool. Welcome to Tracey :)

Yoof said:
I was told that Poch wants to keep him here and have full control over his development, that was a while back though so things may have changed since then. Same case as Onomah, Poch has always insisted that he stays under his watch, it seems that we're looking to bring through the highest rated player in each year group without the need for loans.
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I think this is an excellent plan.

I also think people to some extent overrate the role of a loan deal. Not to say a loan can't be massively helpful in certain circumstances. But we have a world class training facility, a top class head coach in Pochettino and many very highly rated coaches under him. We have invested in player monitoring and surely are at least decent at identifying what our young developing players need to work on next. All of those things are not true of a League One or Championship club.

As we've seen with Bentaleb and now Onomah a loan deal is not always necessary. (Though Onomah could still get one I suppose).

I was thinking yesterday about Kyle Walker. How much better on the ball could he have been if he had got to spend a year or two of his "development years" at our academy or in our development squad instead of elsewhere? I think it could have made a real difference. Not to say that sending him straight out on loan when we signed him didn't make sense overall, I'm in no place to judge that. Just that there are benefits to not going out on loan too, even if the player isn't getting regular first team football.
 
Yiddo said:
People need to realise that this is not football manager and players do not become prem standard after a couple of good seasons in the under 21's. CCV and Veljkovic play regularly for the under 21's and the 21's have one of the worst defensive records in the league. Surely if these 2 were both ready to be fourth choice, they would be a little better defensively? Considering they have KWP who some believe could step up soon next to them.
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I blame Mason and Bentaleb
 
Yiddo said:
But Pritchard had loan spells to gain experience and to prove he is ready to fight for his place in the team, CCV hasn't. Just because he is a 18 years old playing in a lower Standard under 23 USA team does not make him ready to be our 4th choice. It only takes 2 injuries for him to be playing regularly and that could break him just as easily as it could make him.
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As others have alluded to, Poch doesn't seem to favour the loan system. We only have 5 players out now (Oduwa, Ward, Ball, Ogilvie and Yedlin), compared to 15-20 under Redknapp and AVB.

Based on last summer, he seems to want to decide when they get to about 20 whether to promote them to the first team squad (Onomah, Winks and McGee this season) or get rid of them (Grant Hall and Ryan Fredericks)
 
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