The midweek/weekend games thread

[ArcspacE]

Personally I think Spain's WC exploits were horrendous in terms of quality, culminating in what was (imho) the worst final since I've been watching live (Italy '90)

 

[braineclipse]

I genuinely do not understand your question. Are you asking why those players haven't floped at Barca? They were quality units and thoroughbreds. For every Hleb and Krkic you get a Sanchez and Alcantara (sp). But how is that relevant to our debate? Messi is an exceptinal talent who I cannot see being rivaled at the moment. Naturally their tacitcal movement revolves around him. But these are things we all know

And the reason Ronaldo/Rooney are flattering to decieve could well be similar if not identical

I'm asking why those players, top class players that have been signed by Barca haven't overtaken the likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta now that they are getting the same media bias advantage that you talk about as a big factor of their success. If the Barca players aren't as good as people and the media think they are, shouldn't very good players that are signed by Barca be better than the established Barca stars now that they are playing for the same team?

 

[ArcspacE]

I agree.

It depends on what you prefer. If you prefer pure power, attacking football and explosiveness then you'd say Real Madrid play the best football in the world. If you like tippy-tappy, keep possession, dominate your team, then Barcelona play the best football in the world.

Real Madrid have managed 123 goals in all comps so far this season. That is astonishing any way you look at it

 

[ArcspacE]

I'm asking why those players, top class players that have been signed by Barca haven't overtaken the likes of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta now that they are getting the same media bias advantage that you talk about as a big factor of their success. If the Barca players aren't as good as people and the media think they are, shouldn't very good players that are signed by Barca be better than the established Barca stars now that they are playing for the same team?

Not quite - they simply fit the system and become crucial cogs in the well-oiled/tested machine. They pick wisely (Sanchez - wide, quick player), Villa (can play wide, skillful finisher, etc.) = always complimenting never clashing.

Even going as far as looking at it tactically - Messi's postion shouldn't be duplicated on the field

Was that your question

 

[Mumorn]

Real Madrid have managed 123 goals in all comps so far this season. That is astonishing any way you look at it

It's absolutely amazing I agree

 

[braineclipse]

Not quite - they simply fit the system and become crucial cogs in the well-oiled/tested machine. They pick wisely (Sanchez - wide, quick player), Villa (can play wide, skillful finisher, etc.) = always complimenting never clashing.

Even going as far as looking at it tactically - Messi's postion shouldn't be duplicated on the field

Was that your question

Yes, they are quite good in the transfer market. Very few duds. Only Ibrahimovic, but we all make mistakes

That wasn't my question though.

Do you agree that Fabregas, Sanchez and Villa were already excellent players before signing for Barca?

If so, shouldn't they get even better when playing for Barcelona, get that favourable media treatment?

Why then haven't they become even better than the Barcelona players already there? Must be because the Barca players already there are fantastic players? No?

 

[ArcspacE]

Yes, they are quite good in the transfer market. Very few duds. Only Ibrahimovic, but we all make mistakes

That wasn't my question though.

Do you agree that Fabregas, Sanchez and Villa were already excellent players before signing for Barca?

If so, shouldn't they get even better when playing for Barcelona, get that favourable media treatment?

Why then haven't they become even better than the Barcelona players already there? Must be because the Barca players already there are fantastic players? No?

Well to be fair Sanchez is looking good this season and Fabregas has been on good form so one can argue they are playing slightly better but they're also surrounded by exponentially better players and system.

Oh, and Ibra did very well for them but fell out with management. Nothing to do with ability - he managed 21 goals that season

 

[braineclipse]

Well to be fair Sanchez is looking good this season and Fabregas has been on good form so one can argue they are playing slightly better but they're also surrounded by exponentially better players and system.

Oh, and Ibra did very well for them but fell out with management. Nothing to do with ability - he managed 21 goals that season

Are you saying that Sanchez and Fabregas have been better than Messi, Xavi and/or Iniesta?

 

[ArcspacE]

No!

I'm saying they're playing better than they were last season. Wasn't that your question?

Oh dear :lol:

 

[braineclipse]

No!

I'm saying they're playing better than they were last season. Wasn't that your question?

Oh dear :lol:

This I agree with, it is to be expected in a better team.

But, if the Barca players are overrated, why aren't these very good new players brought in outshining those stars already there that you think are overrated?

 

[ArcspacE]

I didn't say they were overrated - simpy suggested most of their opponents are often half-beaten mentally even before kick-off

 

[braineclipse]

I didn't say they were overrated - simpy suggested most of their opponents are often half-beaten mentally even before kick-off

So, they are the best in the world?

But other teams, not the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best teams in the world and those, those a bit smaller than that should do better against them?

 

[ArcspacE]

Not the best in the world as that is completely subjective in terms of style of football as already disussed on the previous page

And yes - lesser teams can and should most definitely offer half a fight, at least

 

[braineclipse]

Not the best in the world as that is completely subjective in terms of style of football as already disussed on the previous page

And yes - lesser teams can and should most definitely offer half a fight, at least

But they are rated by most (a majority I think) as the best in the world (by best I don't mean prettiest, most entertaining or anything like that, just the best at winning football matches)?

Yet you say they aren't overrated?

 

[ArcspacE]

No, mate - the media labels them that

Any fan with half a brain cell can and must formulate his own opinions about the game instead of swallowing spoon-fulls of carefully filtered and edited titles paid for by betting money.

They are what they are - a very good side with a world class player amongst their ranks playing a very complimenting system benefiting all 11 players

 

[braineclipse]

No, mate - the media labels them that

Any fan with half a brain cell can and must formulate his own opinions about the game instead of swallowing spoon-fulls of carefully filtered and edited titles paid for by betting money.

They are what they are - a very good side with a world class player amongst their ranks playing a very complimenting system benefiting all 11 players

Xavi and Iniesta aren't world class? (Assuming that "a world class player" was referring to Messi)

I do think for myself and have no problems arguing my opinion. I like to think that I have more than half a brain cell. I think they are the best in the world. Although Real Madrid are closing in on them.

There isn't a dichotomy between those fans that think for themselves and those that think Barca aren't the best team in the world.

 

[ArcspacE]

I don't see them on par with Messi, nope. Although they must be the single most complimenting midfield duo in the last 10 odd years, granted.

Personally - in terms of football quality, Real Madrid are absolutely unstoppable at the moment so my vote goes to them. Not to mention the insane amount of goals they seem to be producing every game while playing at 320km/h. Absolutely devastating. That is my personal opinion and I don't need a headline to confirm it. But I certainly wouldn't accept something because mainstream media says so and even if it's true - I'd perform some objective anylsis first instead of taking something at face-value

We also played some lovely stuff this season realtive to us - that was just as impressive for our scheme of things

 

[braineclipse]

I don't see them on par with Messi, nope. Although they must be the single most complimenting midfield duo in the last 10 odd years, granted.

Personally - in terms of football quality, Real Madrid are absolutely unstoppable at the moment so my vote goes to them. Not to mention the insane amount of goals they seem to be producing every game while playing at 320km/h. Absolutely devastating. That is my personal opinion and I don't need a headline to confirm it. But I certainly wouldn't accept something because mainstream media says so and even if it's true - I'd perform some objective anylsis first instead of taking something at face-value

We also played some lovely stuff this season realtive to us - that was just as impressive for our scheme of things

If you have to be on par with Messi to be world class there is exactly one world class player in the world imo.

Again with the media comments. Are you insinuating that my opinions are controlled by headlines and the media and that I'm not objectively analyzing things?

 

[ArcspacE]

If you have to be on par with Messi to be world class there is exactly one world class player in the world imo.

Again with the media comments. Are you insinuating that my opinions are controlled by headlines and the media and that I'm not objectively analyzing things?

No - but I'm sure many our there are greatly influenced by the constant barrage or world dominance and superiority headlines. Either subconciouisly or not.

I'd say other than Ronaldo at the moment - very few other players can match his output at the moment. Sorry but I don't issue the 'world class' label easily

 

[braineclipse]

No - but I'm sure many our there are greatly influenced by the constant barrage or world dominance and superiority headlines. Either subconciouisly or not.

I'd say other than Ronaldo at the moment - very few other players can match his output at the moment. Sorry but I don't issue the 'world class' label easily

If you don't think that then I don't see the relevance of your media comments in our current discussion.

I use the words world class slightly differently, but it doesn't really matter.