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The Defensive Midfielder

Finney Is Back said:
I disagree with you about it being too defensive for a possession side. If you take the holding midfielder out of the equation then there are still 5 attacking players and that is in addition to our two full backs who are given lots of license to get forward. If that isn't enough attacking players then I would say that it is the personnel that we have wrong.

I think in a possession side it is perhaps even more crucial to play a holding player, this is because we tend to move the ball forward quite slowly and gradually gets lots of players forward, this leaves a huge amount of space for the opposition to exploit on the break if they win the ball when our team is advanced. With our marauding fullbacks and the huge spaces behind us, it becomes even more key that we play a holding player as that allows our centre halves to peel out wide and Dier to slot in to ensure we're not outnumbered centrally.
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I absolutely agree we need a holder but I'd far rather that holder is a passed who can tackle than a tackler who can pass. A small but, in my eyes, important distinction.

That role is the basis of every passing move going forwards - I think they need to be a good passer/reader of the game first and a defensive player second.
 
scaramanga said:
I absolutely agree we need a holder but I'd far rather that holder is a passed who can tackle than a tackler who can pass. A small but, in my eyes, important distinction.

That role is the basis of every passing move going forwards - I think they need to be a good passer/reader of the game first and a defensive player second.
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Fair enough.... I think we're probably in violent agreement on this in that case.... A player like Alonso, Arteta or Carrick?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Fair enough.... I think we're probably in violent agreement on this in that case.... A player like Alonso, Arteta or Carrick?
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Alonso or Carrick would be incredible - Arteta not so much. I haven't seen as much of him but whilst he's been deployed there I'm not sure I'd describe his natural game as a holder.
 
diego_maradona said:
Amazing to think we went into the season thinking Mason and Bentaleb were easily our first choice central midfield pairing
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There's no reason they couldn't finish the season as our first choice pairing either. It's only injuries that have created the current situation

There's very little between Mason and Alli at this point in time. Dier is probably a jump ahead of Bentaleb, but many people seem to have forgotten just how good NB is while he has been out.

Our defensive solidity is IMO caused a lot more by a combination of: 1) Alder at CB, 2) Walker at RB (remember Chiriches and Dier largely shared that position last season), and 3) better defensive work across the AMs (the pressing of Son and Lamela, and Eriksen upping his game without the ball).
 
Gutter Boy said:
There's no reason they couldn't finish the season as our first choice pairing either. It's only injuries that have created the current situation

There's very little between Mason and Alli at this point in time. Dier is probably a jump ahead of Bentaleb, but many people seem to have forgotten just how good NB is while he has been out.

Our defensive solidity is IMO caused a lot more by a combination of: 1) Alder at CB, 2) Walker at RB (remember Chiriches and Dier largely shared that position last season), and 3) better defensive work across the AMs (the pressing of Son and Lamela, and Eriksen upping his game without the ball).
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Whatever you do now don't praise Dembele.....hes not on the favourites list! And Mason is nowhere near Ali at the minute.
 
Gutter Boy said:
There's no reason they couldn't finish the season as our first choice pairing either. It's only injuries that have created the current situation

There's very little between Mason and Alli at this point in time. Dier is probably a jump ahead of Bentaleb, but many people seem to have forgotten just how good NB is while he has been out.

Our defensive solidity is IMO caused a lot more by a combination of: 1) Alder at CB, 2) Walker at RB (remember Chiriches and Dier largely shared that position last season), and 3) better defensive work across the AMs (the pressing of Son and Lamela, and Eriksen upping his game without the ball).
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Jesus wept.... The reason were better is we have better players playing now. We have lost the bad apples and we have players working as a unit

If Nabil comes in and can do a better job than Dier then we will win the league as Dier has been the best player in our side this season and arguably in the top 2 players in the league as whole with Vardy. Nabil is a good player and potentially very good but he doesn't win many tackle and his passing can range from sublime to shocking

Im a big Mason fan and agree there isnt much between them but Allis is the man with the shirt at the moment and now deserve it

Arisen ran further than anyone in our side last year, the problem was he was sometimes alone in doing so, so i agree having Lamella backing him up is a big improvement defensively

We also look better with Dembele controlling the pace of the gam bey holding the ball up in key areas

But i come back to my first comment, we simply have better players now
 
diego_maradona said:
Amazing to think we went into the season thinking Mason and Bentaleb were easily our first choice central midfield pairing
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And tbh, I was scared looking at that. No coincidence we're better defensively now. Dier has been amazing, he has made me look like an idiot thinking he couldnt do a job as a DM.
Alli... All in all its just one word: Brilliant having in mind he comes from League One, and is 19.
But Dembele is for me the pick of the season. Just love seeing him dominate games like he has done for the last few weeks.
Bentaleb and Mason has a huge job in front of them. And I'm happy about it, it just means they have to learn and improve.
 
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SpursNorway said:
And tbh, I was scared looking at that. No coincidence we're better defensively now. Dier has been amazing, he has made my look like an idiot thinking he couldnt do a job as a DM.
Alli... All in all its just one word: Brilliant having in mind he comes from League One, and is 19.
But Dembele is for me the pick of the season. Just love seeing him dominate games like he has done for the last few weeks.
Bentaleb and Mason has a huge job in front of them. And I happy about it, it just means they have to learn and improve.
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Hmm I think Bentaleb and Mason were a huge part of our success last season. Yes we may have been suspect defensively but they were fantastic. Many were tipping Bentaleb to be our next captain! I think he is a huge talent.
 
diego_maradona said:
Hmm I think Bentaleb and Mason were a huge part of our success last season. Yes we may have been suspect defensively but they were fantastic. Many were tipping Bentaleb to be our next captain! I think he is a huge talent.
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I dont deny he is a huge talent, but last season they didnt protected the back four good enough IMO.
I'm not saying they are out for good, but to come in and play again they need to step up in quality.
 
Spurmac1974 said:
Whatever you do now don't praise Dembele.....hes not on the favourites list! And Mason is nowhere near Ali at the minute.
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Assuming you mean Alli is better than Mason, that is a ridiculous shout.

Alli has been getting massively overhyped on here recently. He is a big talent, and isn't far off Mason who is 5 years his senior. That is commendable. But Alli is still very raw and often is wasteful, while Mason is the vastly superior passer.

Anyway, back on topic, Dembele offers us a skill-set which no other midfielder in the squad (and arguably the world) can. He has been imperious lately.
 
diego_maradona said:
Hmm I think Bentaleb and Mason were a huge part of our success last season. Yes we may have been suspect defensively but they were fantastic. Many were tipping Bentaleb to be our next captain! I think he is a huge talent.
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Most definitely.

At the moment I also think a Mason/Bentaleb or Dembele comparison is a bit flawed. Other than the Arsenal game when Dembele and Alli switched rather early in the game Dembele is mainly playing as one of the attacking trio and thus more competing with Son/Chadli for a place in the team. Worth mentioning that Mason has managed to play that deeper role role very well against top teams like Arsenal in the past. I agree that Alli is raw, though obviously extremely talented.

I also think it's pretty much inevitable that Dier and Alli will have drops in form. Bentaleb has had his and along with his injury is the reason why he was out of the team. When he recovers I think he will put up a real contest for a place in the starting 11.

Ultimately competition will only be a good thing. And having someone a bit more experienced like Dembele in there will also do us good, and particularly in the big games he offers us something that very few other players do.
 
parklane1 said:
Not me, I always thought it was our weakest point and the main reason our back four looked a mess last year. :)
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Me too. We look more solid in CM. Not writing off Mason and Bentaleb, but they are not going to just walk back into the side nor should they.

Dembele has been excellent in the last 5 games or so.
 
Gutter Boy said:
There's no reason they couldn't finish the season as our first choice pairing either. It's only injuries that have created the current situation

There's very little between Mason and Alli at this point in time. Dier is probably a jump ahead of Bentaleb, but many people seem to have forgotten just how good NB is while he has been out.

Our defensive solidity is IMO caused a lot more by a combination of: 1) Alder at CB, 2) Walker at RB (remember Chiriches and Dier largely shared that position last season), and 3) better defensive work across the AMs (the pressing of Son and Lamela, and Eriksen upping his game without the ball).
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Dier has been outstanding this season. I can't recall Mason or Bentaleb winning so many tackles and breaking up play in our final third as often as Dier.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Dier has been outstanding this season. I can't recall Mason or Bentaleb winning so many tackles and breaking up play in our final third as often as Dier.
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Dier/Dembele are much more physically intimidating than Mason/Bentaleb (and Mason is aggressive)

Mason I actually see getting back into lineup easier than Bentaleb (think about that as a statement from last season), he's more flexible, can be an attacking player, can provide workrate and cover to close out a game, etc.

Bentaleb is a talent, but to find his place back he/we are going to have to figure out what his best role is, i.e. what type of midfield player is he? a Carrick? (because he's not a full DM as comparison's to Dier will show).
 
Jurgen the German said:
Dier has been outstanding this season. I can't recall Mason or Bentaleb winning so many tackles and breaking up play in our final third as often as Dier.
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Indeed, Dier is the type of player we really missed in CM last season and Mason and Bentaleb were unable to offer the back four the protection that Dier can.
 
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