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The Defensive Midfielder

Robspur12 said:
Perhaps, but sensible posters like you and Billy can predict how this will pan out.
Fans are happy because Dier had a good game this time. But make no mistake he will have sloppy moments and make mistakes just like Bentaleb then sadly fans will get on the back of another young player who will cop the blame for our inability to bring in the right players.
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I don't think anyone will get on Dier's back. He has shown nothing but professionalism and a desire to grow. And the few fans who do will quickly be called out by the rest of us.

As far as Bentaleb is concerned, I think it's because a lot of people are touting him to be our next big superstar and he's making juvenile mistakes that is the reason he's getting called out. If people didn't have such a high onion of him, we'd just be saying "he needs to work on it a bit more."
 
Robspur12 said:
Perhaps, but sensible posters like you and Billy can predict how this will pan out.
Fans are happy because Dier had a good game this time. But make no mistake he will have sloppy moments and make mistakes just like Bentaleb then sadly fans will get on the back of another young player who will cop the blame for our inability to bring in the right players.
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The idiots make a lot of noise no matter what we do, I doubt that the clubs takes much notice of them, let alone base multimillion pound business deals on trying to keep them happy.
 
We have let so many alternatives slip I'm having a hard time coming up withe a better alternative than Song atm.
 
Robspur12 said:
I hear you mate but imo we are not competing with the big boys for the likes of Bender. I would agree with you completely if it were not for the fact that the other players I mentioned had not been snapped up by non CL teams. For example why were we not taking a punt on M'villa? Or cabaye?
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Not sure I would want our transfer signings done on a punt.
 
When Poch was announced as our Manager, I thought sorting the midfield was his biggest challenge. Who would he pick from our similar ability ranks of midfield players? In the end he found none of the established players were good enough. Instead he took two of the youth players, helped them develop, and we finished 5th.

But the midfield remains our weakness. Either Mason and Bentaleb (Dier too) need to step up above their years, or we need reinforcement. Dembele is not deemed suitable as his passing isn't good enough (and playing wide seems to work for him). Yes Poch could mould Dier, but we need experience ideally.

Schneiderlin was the ideal player. I'm not sure who we can bring in who's around that age and has a similar all round ability with a strong defensive game. Fingers cross Spurs do.
 
i am slowly trying to wean myself off this unhealthy top 4 obsession. i shall now endeavour to be contented with some very good football & possibly a good cup run as was the case for most of my life supporting Spurs before this Champions League malarkey. i support Poch and wish him well but i continue to have reservations about the system. it seems that you need a better quality of player to make it work successfully & Kane mostly looks isolated upfront. COYS!!
 
If we were to get someone like Bender (and he stayed fit), then I believe we could have challenged for top 4. I love Dier, but with him as our only defensive midfield option we can forget about finishing anywhere near the top 4 (at least points wise). I'd say there was a chance if we had young players of this caliber that could step up. Unfortunately, the only player to match this description will be loaned out to Leeds.
 
i dont know where to put this, but watching the Spam Arsanal game yesterday, Spam went there and played a diamond in midfield and 2 up front. Now weve always been told that teams can no longer play like this, 442 with a diamond shape in the middle, and no way should you dare to try such a system away to Arsanal, but Spam were not overrun in the midfield, the defence was protected, and they still looked threat going forward.
 
indianspur said:
i dont know where to put this, but watching the Spam Arsanal game yesterday, Spam went there and played a diamond in midfield and 2 up front. Now weve always been told that teams can no longer play like this, 442 with a diamond shape in the middle, and no way should you dare to try such a system away to Arsanal, but Spam were not overrun in the midfield, the defence was protected, and they still looked threat going forward.
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I'm not sure that makes sense... a diamond means you are playing narrow in midfield, without wingers, so you would have plenty of numbers in the midfield? The opposite of what you expected.

Arsenal are renowned for playing narrow and not having wingers, so it makes sense to play 4-diamond-2

I was thinking about Spurs playing a diamond but rather than 4-diamond-2 it would be 4-2-diamond.

I.e. Bentaleb and Dier in midfield, then the 4 in front are a diamond... that is kind of what we currently play I think. The commentator on Saturday said United were going with 4-2-4 i.e. Carrick and Schniederlin sitting as the midfield 2 and then the other 4 up front... that is pretty much what Spurs do IMO.
 
indianspur said:
i dont know where to put this, but watching the Spam Arsanal game yesterday, Spam went there and played a diamond in midfield and 2 up front. Now weve always been told that teams can no longer play like this, 442 with a diamond shape in the middle, and no way should you dare to try such a system away to Arsanal, but Spam were not overrun in the midfield, the defence was protected, and they still looked threat going forward.
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They played that way because everyone knows that the Arse are strongest in M/F and do not play with width. They were able to close a lot of space in the M/F thus negating the Arses strength.
 
parklane1 said:
They played that way because everyone knows that the Arse are strongest in M/F and do not play with width. They were able to close a lot of space in the M/F thus negating the Arses strength.
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Arsanal's full backs are always bombing forward
 
It's all well and good Dier making a couple of tackles and putting out some fires but central midfield is not a defensive position. Of course as a CM you need to be able to defend, just like in any other position, but it's a position where you need to be comfortable receiving, moving with and passing the ball. Dier is far from even being competent(relative to how a central midfielder should be) at any of those and there were some perfect examples on Saturday of him being robbed of the ball or passing backwards because he's just not a dynamic ball player. You have a black hole like that in your midfield and it causes you to funnel everything through Bentaleb(who was already struggling), going wide or going long. You can say what you like about Mason but we were a better team last season with him in there rather than a holder like Capoue where we were getting turned over at home by the likes of Stoke, West Brom and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Mason completes more forward passes in terms of overall percentage than anyone else in our side and he brings fluidity to the team in terms of us moving forward. We might well concede fewer if Dier plays there but if he stalls our progression going forward and we score less as a result then I fail to see how that trade off is worth it.
 
parklane1 said:
They played that way because everyone knows that the Arse are strongest in M/F and do not play with width. They were able to close a lot of space in the M/F thus negating the Arses strength.
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I thought they also defended their own box extremely well as a unit when required. Arse are always using that tactic of short plays to the corner of the box before bursting in either to shoot or put in an 'undefendable' ball. Spam (and Reid in particular) dealt with those impeccably.
 
mudshark said:
I thought they also defended their own box extremely well as a unit when required. Arse are always using that tactic of short plays to the corner of the box before bursting in either to shoot or put in an 'undefendable' ball. Spam (and Reid in particular) dealt with those impeccably.
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Agree, they were set up well and got the result.
 
indianspur said:
i dont know where to put this, but watching the Spam Arsanal game yesterday, Spam went there and played a diamond in midfield and 2 up front. Now weve always been told that teams can no longer play like this, 442 with a diamond shape in the middle, and no way should you dare to try such a system away to Arsanal, but Spam were not overrun in the midfield, the defence was protected, and they still looked threat going forward.
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They didn't play 2 up, there was always one defending deeper.

That's OK if you're parking the bus and playing on the break but I can't see many Spurs fans going for bus parking as a tactic.
 
Yoof said:
It's all well and good Dier making a couple of tackles and putting out some fires but central midfield is not a defensive position. Of course as a CM you need to be able to defend, just like in any other position, but it's a position where you need to be comfortable receiving, moving with and passing the ball. Dier is far from even being competent(relative to how a central midfielder should be) at any of those and there were some perfect examples on Saturday of him being robbed of the ball or passing backwards because he's just not a dynamic ball player. You have a black hole like that in your midfield and it causes you to funnel everything through Bentaleb(who was already struggling), going wide or going long. You can say what you like about Mason but we were a better team last season with him in there rather than a holder like Capoue where we were getting turned over at home by the likes of Stoke, West Brom and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Mason completes more forward passes in terms of overall percentage than anyone else in our side and he brings fluidity to the team in terms of us moving forward. We might well concede fewer if Dier plays there but if he stalls our progression going forward and we score less as a result then I fail to see how that trade off is worth it.
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I couldn't agree more with you. Mason is a real asset to us and him and Bentaleb is a good combination. If they can, between them, sort out the lapses, they will be very effective.
 
Yoof said:
It's all well and good Dier making a couple of tackles and putting out some fires but central midfield is not a defensive position. Of course as a CM you need to be able to defend, just like in any other position, but it's a position where you need to be comfortable receiving, moving with and passing the ball. Dier is far from even being competent(relative to how a central midfielder should be) at any of those and there were some perfect examples on Saturday of him being robbed of the ball or passing backwards because he's just not a dynamic ball player. You have a black hole like that in your midfield and it causes you to funnel everything through Bentaleb(who was already struggling), going wide or going long. You can say what you like about Mason but we were a better team last season with him in there rather than a holder like Capoue where we were getting turned over at home by the likes of Stoke, West Brom and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Mason completes more forward passes in terms of overall percentage than anyone else in our side and he brings fluidity to the team in terms of us moving forward. We might well concede fewer if Dier plays there but if he stalls our progression going forward and we score less as a result then I fail to see how that trade off is worth it.
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The answer is to have someone who can do both. That's why we need to go into the transfer market. Mason may well turn over possession well but we conceded a lot of goals something Poch clearly wants to address.
 
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