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OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur vs AFC Richmond/Crystal Palace - Sunday 27th October 14:00 ***

Bishop said:
I think part of the issue is whilst the base technical level of our players is at a historically good standard, it's not actually high enough for what Ange demands. The quality of the first touch and the press resistance isn't where it needs to be, nor the range and quality of the pass into players under pressure.

If Ange is unwilling to adapt he's going to need the backing of the board to purchase him ever more suitable players or he's going to keeping coming unstuck, because what's he's trying to do here isn't anything new or even innovative. I've watched many teams over the years and across leagues attempt to play this way and at its core it requires a level of technical ability and tactical versatility that I just don't see enough of across the range of players in our squad.

So we are going to have to wait and hope that Ange is the right man to invest in. I generally like his plan and I appreciate the style he has implemented but I'm not so strong on his lack of adaptability. I'm not calling for wholesale changes but I think he could be a little more flexible or at least as you've mentioned have a little more direct game planning versus the opposition. We simply aren't that good that we can ignore what they bring to the table and just "play our way".
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He has been backed. But the way he's been backed, particularly this summer, has mostly been with younger players that will need time. For me only fair to give him and those players quite a bit of time, as long as there's some improvement over time (not game to game).

I'm quite pleased with his "lack of adaptability" (I see it as him adapting, but in a limited way within certain principles). I think that's the way to go.

We're capable of playing much better against a high press than we did against Palace. We've seen it. Repeatedly. Ange, the coaches and the players need to figure out why that didn't happen against Palace and go again imo. The players need to learn how to deal with those situations better.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s actually very good for us
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Think this table shows you should never take stats in isolation as proof of anything. If AVB is in our top 5 managers of all-time then I'm a Dutchman.

If Bill Nicholson is our 12th best manager while Venables, Rowe and Burkinshaw don't even make our top 12, something is surely amiss.

Tactics Tim is 10th by the way. As if my point needed any further re-enforcement.

en.wikipedia.org

List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. managers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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braineclipse said:
He has been backed. But the way he's been backed, particularly this summer, has mostly been with younger players that will need time. For me only fair to give him and those players quite a bit of time, as long as there's some improvement over time (not game to game).

I'm quite pleased with his "lack of adaptability" (I see it as him adapting, but in a limited way within certain principles). I think that's the way to go.

We're capable of playing much better against a high press than we did against Palace. We've seen it. Repeatedly. Ange, the coaches and the players need to figure out why that didn't happen against Palace and go again imo. The players need to learn how to deal with those situations better.
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brick coaching.

We don't look organised, we look all over the place and players out of position for vast chunks of the game.

They haven't got a clue what the should be doing with and without the ball.

Whilst we technically gifted players, their footballing intelligence is lacking.

Kulu for example, work rate of GHod,, but his final ball is devoid of any thought.

Yesterday he thought trying to pass the ball through 3 players was the thing to do and just gave the ball away.

And its week in, week out.
 
billyiddo said:
I think our away form is maybe indicative of the managers lack of pragmatism - im wondering whether he takes much notice of who we are matched up against game to game versus trying to put out a team he thinks can best play 'our way', with the idea being that if we play our way well, then we will win no matter the opposition - this may work enough at home to keep things ticking over, but away from home even the best teams need to adapt from time to time
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... and I think it's this level of breathtaking arrogance that will eventually be his downfall (and sooner, I have recently come to the most fervent hope, because he is evidently incapable of changing, rather than later). To think that he can swan in from a toy competition like the Scottish League, where most of the best players in the division were probably in his team, and be successful playing the same kind of one-size-fits-all football in the Premier League with players bought on a Levy budget and a determination never to let experience inform his decisions, is the absolute height.
 
I guess you can interpret his determination to do things "his way" as arrogance. But then all the great managers are probably arrogant. People on here talk about him learning from his mistakes, but he's been managing a long long time and sticks to his way of playing, no matter what.
We are stuck with him this season, and if he wins a cup, all will be forgiven. Anyway, there are worse places to be than mid-table mediocrity, which is probably where we are headed!
 
lurker of old said:
I guess you can interpret his determination to do things "his way" as arrogance. But then all the great managers are probably arrogant. People on here talk about him learning from his mistakes, but he's been managing a long long time and sticks to his way of playing, no matter what.
We are stuck with him this season, and if he wins a cup, all will be forgiven. Anyway, there are worse places to be than mid-table mediocrity, which is probably where we are headed!
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Problem is we have team better than mediocraty.

I don't think it is Ange, i think it is coaching staff.
 
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Possibly
But I’ve seen us play many many away games against inferior opponents and bottle it because we did what we did today
Not fight
Nor press
Not run
That’s what I saw
For me it was lazy because as soon as it got physical we crumbled
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There was plenty of running from us yesterday.

We did press as well

Issue is we are expecting players to be able to cover 2 positions when everyone bombs forward.
 
glasgowspur said:
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
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Given that Palace won their first game against us and that even the most goggle-eyed of Spurs fans couldn't bedgrudge them the win and would recognise that we were lucky it wasn't more than one, what would you think?
 
glasgowspur said:
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
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I think Postecoglou's style of play lends itself well to these over-reactions. When we win, we often look impressive and everyone suddenly can't help but hope that we have turned a corner or that he's found the winning formula, depending on how their opinion on the manager. When we lose - even more so this season - we look quite miserable and it seems we're doomed to mid-table obscurity.

My guess is that, at some point, we will either fall apart completely or we will grow more consistant. Or maybe this will carry on like this for quite some time. Either way, it will be interesting to watch.

A shorter but just as efficient summary of the past two league games could be: West Ham - they sucked; Palace - we sucked.
 
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glasgowspur said:
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
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Didn’t read the report but watched the game. Of course, we all probably over react to defeats but it was pretty poor stuff. Easily our worst 90 mins of the season. After Maddison’s miss on about 40 mins, I can’t remember us missing a chance worth talking about.

2 or 3 nil would not have flattered them. They had us absolutely rocking on for about 10-15 mins after half time.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Given that Palace won their first game against us and that even the most goggle-eyed of Spurs fans couldn't bedgrudge them the win and would recognise that we were lucky it wasn't more than one, what would you think?
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I don't know, I haven't seen it.
I was asking an honest question, thinking that after the initial anger and disappointment had settled thoughts may have mellowed.
 
glasgowspur said:
I don't know, I haven't seen it.
I was asking an honest question, thinking that after the initial anger and disappointment had settled thoughts may have mellowed.
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Sorry i got that, i thought my wording would have conveyed both my slight sarcasm but also the dire nature of the game.
It was a grim and worrying performance given how things have been going the last 12 months imo
 
glasgowspur said:
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
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Football fans over reacting, who would have thougt that would happen. ;)
 
glasgowspur said:
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
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For most of the season we have played well (and all stats/data back that up), the exceptions
- Coventry cup game (we won), and we have looked a little off in some of the heavily rotated Europe games
- 2nd Half against Brighton
- Full game against Palace (we were poor)

Personally
- Palace had a plan (have to give credit), it was about making sure we had no rhythm, no flow, some of it was good from them (pressed/squeezed us) , some was not my idea of good but effective (lots of breaking up play, afters in tackles, lots of fouls, lots of them laying on the ground), whole game was a stop start mess (suited them not us)
- Not blaming the player, but was not the day for Moore, should help people understand how critical it is for both wingers to be working in this system, Werner has many issues but the system works with him
- Once again, in a battling game, Maddison +Deki doesn't work
- Bad day at office for a few players, Deki, Johnson, VDV, Udogie all looked out of it

What's on Ange?
- Selection, not right game for Moore, not right game for both Maddison & Deki, changes at HT would have been better

This is just another step in PL countering games, end of last season team countered us by going man to man and being a little more physical, this is elevation of the break up play, make sure we don't have possession, see if we want it physically.
 
glasgowspur said:
I've been in deepest Devon since Friday morning and not seen either of the last two games.
Read through the forum and there is a lot moaning and gloom.
Read the BBC match report expecting us to be slaughtered but it was reasonably positive about us.
Will try and watch the games on spurs play, but are we over reacting?
Click to expand...
Don't. It's not an enjoyable experience. We were out played from minute 1 to the full whistle. A fair bit of hustle and bustle from us but very, very little quality.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Running in an uncontrolled way is Forrest gump
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Didn't see uncontrolled running yesterday either, passing was brick mind which was a major part of the issue.

I'd be interested to see the player positions yesterday and compare against West Ham, my bet would be there wasn't much difference

Palace just knew where to hit on the break
 
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