** OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool ** 8.1.25 at 8pm

[mudshark]

Jonathan Pearce was a good commentator on the radio. It was when he moved to TV commentating that his radio style just didn't work.

I must agree, although he has learnt to dial it down a bit with time, and that you don't need to be bombarded with descriptions of every single event when you've eyes in your head.

 

[mudshark]

The logic from both Smith and Redknapp. The first one shouldn't have been given, but since it was he should have been sent off.
I assume they will always say that every situation should be considered independently from everything else in the future as well.

If it had been McAllister or someone, they'd have been praising the ref for not wanting to ruin the game as a spectacle.

 

[mudshark]

we sat deeper, played longer, didn't charge everyone upfield at every opportunity

has the penny finally dropped?

We live in hope.

 

[mudshark]

And who gave PGMOL the empowerment to ignore the laws of the game and do their own thing?

I didn't. Did you?

My mates a copper. I might tell him it's OK to make up his own laws and do things his own way. Then I can take a line of coke with him on the table in the pub on a Friday evening,

Steady on, he'd have to be a superintendent for that. Maybe even a government minister.

 

[monkeybarry]

TBH, right now, I'd happily accept a return to those days.

I know people don't like how VAR has changed the emotion - and I get it.
But it was the same bickering and arguments before about was something offside or not etc. And it was really boring, and often became quite vicious and toxic; more toxic than anything VAR conjures up. I think people forget how much abuse officials used to get, including some really hideous stuff and actual threats.

VAR has removed most of the doubt.
But what's it's also done, is create fairness - look at the league since VAR and how much closer it's become; the teams that got screwed because it was at Old Trafford etc; that's gone now, and that's for the better.
Things like when Coventry nearly drew (or was it win?) Vs Man U in the cup, but it was disallowed because it was actually offside - that's just fairness. Sports should be as close as possible to whomever is the best sporting side.
VAR doesn't stop anyone celebrating - it just corrects them celebrating something incorrectly.

 

[monkeybarry]

I missed the build up and the first half but my misses said that Dawson was taking the tinkle out of us and laughing and joking about us? She was quite confused as she said she thought Dawson was one of us.

He was a little bit - but no more than we would as fans.
He was very clearly a fan and said "us/we" when talking about Spurs.
I did get the impression he wanted to tell Redknapp to shut his pie hole though.

 

[monkeybarry]

we sat deeper, played longer, didn't charge everyone upfield at every opportunity

has the penny finally dropped?

To be fair, we'll need it at the weekend.

 

[tommysvr]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877168169434964309

 

[mudshark]

Good interview from Ange on both the second yellow and the second season trophy.

Laughable that Redknapp is saying Ange is wrong when Ange says he’s had it directly from the officials.

And the pundits are just showing they have no idea what cynical means. It was a bad tackle but he’s trying to play the ball clearly. fudge me, the standard of punditry is abysmal.

They demonstrate every week how clueless most of them still are. How long has it been since it was made explicit that it's sufficient for a tackle to be deemed reckless for it to be penalised, and how often do you still hear them wobbling on about "intent" when discussing the award of a free-kick for a foul?

 

[JerusalemMan]

Ange saying refs have told the clubs that yellows aren’t given for fouls when advantage is played??

Doesn’t sound right to me. But if mind games to protect Bergvall??

The International Football Association Board's Laws of the Games state:
"If the referee plays the advantage for an offence for which a caution/sending-off would have been issued had play been stopped, this caution/sending-off must be issued when the ball is next out of play.
However, if the offence was denying the opposing team an obvious goalscoring opportunity, the player is cautioned for unsporting behaviour; if the offence was interfering with or stopping a promising attack, the player is not cautioned."

So if Bergvall's offence was viewed as merely interfering with the attack and nothing more severe/reckless/violent...no problem

 

[mudshark]

I know people don't like how VAR has changed the emotion - and I get it.
But it was the same bickering and arguments before about was something offside or not etc. And it was really boring, and often became quite vicious and toxic; more toxic than anything VAR conjures up. I think people forget how much abuse officials used to get, including some really hideous stuff and actual threats.

VAR has removed most of the doubt.
But what's it's also done, is create fairness - look at the league since VAR and how much closer it's become; the teams that got screwed because it was at Old Trafford etc; that's gone now, and that's for the better.
Things like when Coventry nearly drew (or was it win?) Vs Man U in the cup, but it was disallowed because it was actually offside - that's just fairness. Sports should be as close as possible to whomever is the best sporting side.
VAR doesn't stop anyone celebrating - it just corrects them celebrating something incorrectly.

I'm afraid I have to say that hasn't been my experience. I suppose we have to accept that we're stuck with the life of its own VAR has created for itself, but for me, there's a long way to go before it properly enhances the game on balance rather than detracts and mostly just gets in the way - before the experience is more like the way it's used in rugby, just for example (and yes, I appreciate there isn't a direct analogy). That will require a kind of revolution on the part of PGMOL (possibly even its abolition and replacement with a different body), a form of glasnost that seems a million miles away at present, in everything from the way they conduct recruitment to the introduction of in-stadium open mic. That's my perspective. As far as right now is concerned, I'd rather it just went away.

 

[mudshark]

When I fall in love with football again is when Diaz gets booked for leaving a trailing leg behind and trying to get Bergval the yellow.

That shows where the spirit of the game is in this era. Nobody even mentions what a lack of sportsmanship we see in these moments.

Unfortunately for us all, that would require the game becoming about sport again, and not just about raking in money.

 

[mudshark]

I said that yesterday and I agree, but as long as they apply the law evenly it's better.
Now it's out there in the public domain I can see a lot teams taking advantage of it, don't see that law lasting long.

Who is it who is supposed to be thinking these things through? Are they to be trusted with a pair of scissors?

 

[90291Spur]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877168169434964309

A decent first goal.

 

[fernadez]

Why can't he play like that every game though? He bosses it when he played against us for Brighton, then we sign him and he's one good game 3 bad games then one good game again. He's class when he is but meh when not. Would love him to be consistently the boss for us.
brick just realised we have some good midfielders when you think of it, probably too many but never too many with our luck.

Sarr, Biss, Bents, Bergs, Madders.

Plus did you see that run from Gray coming out of defense and in midfield? That's apparently his best position, will we ever see him play it?

The last two games where the full backs have played in more orthodox positions he's been much better. Which isn't a coincidence. He's now seeing the play in front of him and being able to get across to things rather than sprinting back towards his own goal repeatedly and lunging in. He's also playing in a much smaller area on the pitch then he was before, again due to us making the pitch smaller when we don't have the ball.

 

[Daisuk]

yeah they do, false starts are called all the time

it's not about it being a meaningful advantage, what does the law say, thats what matters, in its current form, its simply a measurement, its binary, are they closer to the goal line

False starts are different though, not starting with a foot half a centimeter in front of someone else. How do they measure that? I've never seen it, but I'm not big on sprints.

 

[harr1984]

Any win where Liverpool feel a sense of injustice is a most enjoyable win.

So that's literally any win against them then ....

 

[thfcsteff]

Steff I respect you immensely but that line is a bit patronising and unlike you. The keeper was really good which helped but there is no doubt for me that the big game changer was in the middle of the park. The double pivot tracked back to help the defence out more effectively than I have seen in previous games. I know you re suggesting this has been happening for a while but I’m afraid I haven’t seen it as effective as tonight. Liverpool were denied space and because the fbs were actually defending too, there were not the overloads that we have seen earlier in the season. It’s not just about being unlucky in other games, we played differently tonight. In fact I have seen comments that “it was a bit boring today” because we were not engaged in relentless attacks and getting caught out at the back.

My friend, I too respect you immensely, but with that respect quite correctly shared, I fail to see how it can be construed as patronising.
It is my opinion mate. If that projects to you as such, I sadly can do little about that other than to state that is not my intention.

I think some people have refused to see the tweaks and alterations which have been made as this mad injury crisis has rolled through our squad, and further, I believe some people have confused a lot of what the manager is saying with what is actually going on. I'm happy to get into it more discussion-wise, but the short take is that I believe you can play football with the style and approach he has given us whilst also making adjustments along the way. There has been a pervasive narrative that his style is somewhat wreckless, which has led to everything from the losses to injuries. I maintain that plenty of the goals conceded have come down as much to individual errors as anything else. Again, one can happily discuss and debate whether the errors are a result of the system or players not being quite up to it for whatever reason (health, focus, ability).

I have mentioned the FBs not pushing on in several other games this season, and the midfield was certainly man-marking. Yet we did not alter our approch to the game, which was to look to win it.

I think there are many games from earlier this season where we had to watch first-halves which were bordering on tedious due to the lack of speed in build-up play due to trying to control the game and be patient as opposed to charging around and giving mid-low block teams easy street.

 

[braineclipse]

My friend, I too respect you immensely, but with that respect quite correctly shared, I fail to see how it can be construed as patronising.
It is my opinion mate. If that projects to you as such, I sadly can do little about that other than to state that is not my intention.

I think some people have refused to see the tweaks and alterations which have been made as this mad injury crisis has rolled through our squad, and further, I believe some people have confused a lot of what the manager is saying with what is actually going on. I'm happy to get into it more discussion-wise, but the short take is that I believe you can play football with the style and approach he has given us whilst also making adjustments along the way. There has been a pervasive narrative that his style is somewhat wreckless, which has led to everything from the losses to injuries. I maintain that plenty of the goals conceded have come down as much to individual errors as anything else. Again, one can happily discuss and debate whether the errors are a result of the system or players not being quite up to it for whatever reason (health, focus, ability).

I have mentioned the FBs not pushing on in several other games this season, and the midfield was certainly man-marking. Yet we did not alter our approch to the game, which was to look to win it.

I think there are many games from earlier this season where we had to watch first-halves which were bordering on tedious due to the lack of speed in build-up play due to trying to control the game and be patient as opposed to charging around and giving mid-low block teams easy street.

Even one of the commentators on Norwegian TV had picked up on it. Pointing out that we had adjusted somewhat in recent games too and that we hadn't been reckless as some would have said.

 

[thfcsteff]

Fair point. But he changed a lot today imho. There was a palpable difference in the way we played.

At the risk of being dinged again, here I go my friend...I said at the time Vic was hurt that we could not deal with Forster as our keeper, that it would cause huge problems, and that it showed a squad errorfrom the summer. Credit to all concerned for getting Kinsky in, because he was clearly, clearly a huge difference maker. It's about so much more than shot-stopping. His range of passes, his confidence with his feet, his accuracy, his willingness to play higher, his comfort in the box, it all makes a huge difference.