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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Expensive Stoke***

Benny_Lad said:
Honestly it’s pointless with these people. They think you can miss 5 players and go away to the 2nd best team in the league and get something.

Would be no surprise if it’s the same people that moan about Ange adjusting and when we eventually get it right (bar a referee error and keeper error) it’s obviously his fault.
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we're barely getting anything, anywhere we go

tonight was just another disappointing result in a season of them
 
Didn't see the game, but looks like another loss where Ange has left spare subs on the bench. Adds more fuel to my theory that he only uses 5 subs when we win and won't trust his subs when we're chasing a game. It's been a pattern since he joined, and not one I'm in agreement with.

If we're running on empty, then get the fresh legs on that pitch. They're all students of Ange ball at this point so should be trusted to execute.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Or maybe Spence wouldn’t have got sent off
We don’t know why they were risked but it’s happened and it’s bitten us
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No wonder the club are advertising for what appears to be an almost entirely new physio team if one of the current lot was responsible for that poor decision.

Thank feck that Kulusevski, Solanke and Porro appear to have indestructible hamstrings.

Bedfordspurs said:
and the other thing is the players who are playing are getting no rest so it’s double bubble as an issue
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Meanwhile young Lankshear has been frozen out since the Galatasaray match, with Werner getting the nod as CF against Tamworth and promptly injuring himself to add to the list.
 
Muttley said:
Didn't see the game, but looks like another loss where Ange has left spare subs on the bench. Adds more fuel to my theory that he only uses 5 subs when we win and won't trust his subs when we're chasing a game. It's been a pattern since he joined, and not one I'm in agreement with.

If we're running on empty, then get the fresh legs on that pitch. They're all students of Ange ball at this point so should be trusted to execute.
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The players who didn't come on:

Brandon Austin
Sergio Reguilón
Malachi Hardy
Callum Olusesi
Mikey Moore
Will Lankshear

Mikey Moore would be the only realistic one, but Johnson and Richarlison came on. So it would likely be for Solanke, but I think we're far better with Solanke even when he's knackered.

Maybe you could really go for it and through Moore on for Bergvall or a defender? But that can very easily go either way.

Reguilon is not better than Spence or Porro. Lankshear I would like to have seen more of but I back the coaching staff to know more than us on a forum. The other two? Not sure it's realistic to give those kids their debut away to arsenal when chasing the game.
 
Muttley said:
It's probably fair to say that Bentancur missing 7 games through suspension and a couple more through the latest concussion has taken its toll on Bissouma. We also saw him play an epic 120 mins only on Sunday. He's 28 now and can perhaps be forgiven for running on empty tonight. It's always going to impact your general play and especially your decision making.

It's a real shame we couldn't keep Sarr, Biss and Bents in rotation mode and keep them all fresh. Sarr is also up and down like a yo-yo with his form. The difference is that he's forgiven because he's 22, whereas Biss is 28 even though it's way easier for the younger guy to recover.

As you say though, it is a problem that needs resolving. Whether it is more bodies or different bodies, we need to fix that midfield and find consistency.
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Archie Gray might’ve been able to give Bissouma a rest in MF if either of our first choice CBs were still available.

Hopefully they’ll do more than 1 days training to get them properly up to speed before they next play for the first team.
 
tommysvr said:
The players who didn't come on:

Brandon Austin
Sergio Reguilón
Malachi Hardy
Callum Olusesi
Mikey Moore
Will Lankshear

Mikey Moore would be the only realistic one, but Johnson and Richarlison came on. So it would likely be for Solanke, but I think we're far better with Solanke even when he's knackered.

Maybe you could really go for it and through Moore on for Bergvall or a defender? But that can very easily go either way.

Reguilon is not better than Spence or Porro. Lankshear I would like to have seen more of but I back the coaching staff to know more than us on a forum. The other two? Not sure it's realistic to give those kids their debut away to arsenal when chasing the game.
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Never a truer partial sentence tapped out on here...
 
tommysvr said:
The players who didn't come on:

Brandon Austin
Sergio Reguilón
Malachi Hardy
Callum Olusesi
Mikey Moore
Will Lankshear

Mikey Moore would be the only realistic one, but Johnson and Richarlison came on. So it would likely be for Solanke, but I think we're far better with Solanke even when he's knackered.

Reguilon is not better than Spence or Porro. Lankshear I would like to have seen more of but I back the coaching staff to know more than us on a forum. The other three...not sure it's realistic to give those kids their debut away to arsenal when chasing the game.
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That's just not apples to apples though. We're not comparing players when everyone is fresh. Porro and Spence had just played 80 mins and were on tired legs. Reggie was on fresh legs. Ditto the other players sitting next to him. This is about game management.

Lankshear is a young gun and the 2 Arsenal centre halves had played extra time at the weekend. They were running on fumes.

Even Olusesi has been on our bench for over 2 months though. He's been in first team training every day through this injury crisis. Where is his chance to be a NLD hero, like Danny Rose was all those years ago?

You genuinely don't get to whinge about injuries when you won't even use your bench. To me, this stuff is basic. You have to trust your bench in football.
 
Muttley said:
That's just not apples to apples though. We're not comparing players when everyone is fresh. Porro and Spence had just played 80 mins and were on tired legs. Reggie was on fresh legs. Ditto the other players sitting next to him. This is about game management.

Lankshear is a young gun and the 2 Arsenal centre halves had played extra time at the weekend. They were running on fumes.

Even Olusesi has been on our bench for over 2 months though. He's been in first team training every day through this injury crisis. Where is his chance to be a NLD hero, like Danny Rose was all those years ago?

You genuinely don't get to whinge about injuries when you won't even use your bench. To me, this stuff is basic. You have to trust your bench in football.
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I don't see how any of those players can be expected to make an impact away to Arsenal. It might happen...but the chances are very low.

Much bigger issues than "he should have brought on Reguillon to get a draw at Arsenal"
 
tommysvr said:
I don't see how any of those players can be expected to make an impact away to Arsenal. It might happen...but the chances are very low.

Much bigger issues than "he should have brought on Reguillon to get a draw at Arsenal"
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Yes, but my original point was that the trend was established. I've been tracking it all along whether it is a fully fit squad or a depleted squad.

Ange uses less subs when we're losing than when we're winning. You could probably prove it statistically now.

If he was sitting pretty in the the league and his starting elevens were doing the business then I'd probably shrug my shoulders. The problem is the trend seems to be that the players on the pitch don't turn losses to draws, or draws to wins late in games.

In my opinion, he should now use his bench more. It wasn't about one game.
 
Muttley said:
Yes, but my original point was that the trend was established. I've been tracking it all along whether it is a fully fit squad or a depleted squad.

Ange uses less subs when we're losing than when we're winning. You could probably prove it statistically now.

If he was sitting pretty in the the league and his starting elevens were doing the business then I'd probably shrug my shoulders. The problem is the trend seems to be that the players on the pitch don't turn losses to draws, or draws to wins late in games.

In my opinion, he should now use his bench more. It wasn't about one game.
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Talking about tonight, who else would you have seen brought on? He's made the two at HT, he's brought Richy on, realistically the only thing he could've done was take Pedro off, move Spence over and bring Reggie on. He could also have brought Moore on for maybe Deki?
 
thfcsteff said:
Talking about tonight, who else would you have seen brought on? He's made the two at HT, he's brought Richy on, realistically the only thing he could've done was take Pedro off, move Spence over and bring Reggie on. He could also have brought Moore on for maybe Deki?
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Well I did caveat this with not seeing the game. I just noticed the sub thing when reading about the result.

I noticed you said on the other thread about players being dead on their feet and not being able to function like control and hold up.

Realistically, you can always get Reggie on. He an experienced guy who knows the drill. He brings energy. So whether that is Porro off and Spence to RB, or Spence to Reggie, you just get those fresh legs on that pitch.

I think there's been that case to get Lanks on as well for a while. He knows where the back of the net is and you're 2-1 down. Throw him on with Solanke and let the latter drop into 10. Or take Solanke off.

Game management really is about disruption when you're trying to change things. I see Ange being disrupted by other PL managers e.g. Fulham. I don't yet see Ange disrupting other managers. A bench is a great way to do that.

Did we ever try a plan B formation tonight. What exactly did we change to alter the outcome? I've not seen much over the last 18 months.
 
Legohamster said:
He needs to go now.

No waiting till the end of the season.

We ain't getting a draw/win at Anfield in cup semi, no point holding on till then
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I disagree strongly.

Levy goes before he goes. I love Ange. I love his philosophy.

He is spurs. If that bald clam survives him my my love for spurs further diminishes. To the extent I want nothing to do with spurs.

Levy out first. I've had enough.

I will stop supporting spurs if Ange goes first.

It's not like I love spurs more with ange. It's more I hate the bald one. More. I'm done.
 
Muttley said:
Well I did caveat this with not seeing the game. I just noticed the sub thing when reading about the result.

I noticed you said on the other thread about players being dead on their feet and not being able to function like control and hold up.

Realistically, you can always get Reggie on. He an experienced guy who knows the drill. He brings energy. So whether that is Porro off and Spence to RB, or Spence to Reggie, you just get those fresh legs on that pitch.

I think there's been that case to get Lanks on as well for a while. He knows where the back of the net is and you're 2-1 down. Throw him on with Solanke and let the latter drop into 10. Or take Solanke off.

Game management really is about disruption when you're trying to change things. I see Ange being disrupted by other PL managers e.g. Fulham. I don't yet see Ange disrupting other managers. A bench is a great way to do that.

Did we ever try a plan B formation tonight. What exactly did we change to alter the outcome? I've not seen much over the last 18 months.
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Well, Dragusin spent the last 5 mins as an extra forward LOL!

I wonder how throttled Reggie is given his lack of football, but yes, that would've been a possible move, another would've been Solanke off, Moore on and Richy at CF.
 
thfcsteff said:
Well, Dragusin spent the last 5 mins as an extra forward LOL!

I wonder how throttled Reggie is given his lack of football, but yes, that would've been a possible move, another would've been Solanke off, Moore on and Richy at CF.
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Exactly, the one thing Reggie has is a cross on him. Richi loves a header etc. Moore has a trick or two in him and can win a penalty. If you don't roll the dice, you don't win.

It's just a trend I'm noticing with Ange and the subs.

I'm also now starting to feel for Olusesi. How many more benches does he have to sit on this season before he even gets a minute on that pitch? He must be deserving of it. I bet he hates that lot as well.
 
Muttley said:
Yes, but my original point was that the trend was established. I've been tracking it all along whether it is a fully fit squad or a depleted squad.

Ange uses less subs when we're losing than when we're winning. You could probably prove it statistically now.

If he was sitting pretty in the the league and his starting elevens were doing the business then I'd probably shrug my shoulders. The problem is the trend seems to be that the players on the pitch don't turn losses to draws, or draws to wins late in games.

In my opinion, he should now use his bench more. It wasn't about one game.
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This seems like an interesting thing to track, so I've added it as a report to my website. You can do it for any manager from their Reports page.

Here's Ange's: https://thfcdb.com/people/ange-postecoglou/reports

319 substitutions
Drawing 1-1 - 43 subs
Trailing 0-1 - 42 subs
Leading 1-0 - 40 subs
Leading 2-1 - 33 subs
Drawing 0-0 - 24 subs
Leading 2-0 - 21 subs
Leading 3-0 - 20 subs
Trailing 1-2 - 18 subs
Trailing 0-3 - 12 subs
Leading 3-1 - 12 subs
Trailing 0-2 - 8 subs
Drawing 2-2 - 7 subs
Leading 4-0 - 6 subs
Trailing 2-3 - 6 subs
Leading 5-1 - 5 subs
Leading 3-2 - 4 subs
Trailing 1-3 - 4 subs
Leading 5-0 - 4 subs
Trailing 0-4 - 3 subs
Trailing 1-4 - 3 subs
Leading 4-3 - 2 subs
Leading 4-1 - 1 subs
Trailing 2-5 - 1 subs
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So you're right, he has made more subs when winning than losing. But he's made more subs when not winning (171)

Total while winning: 148 subs
Total while drawing: 74 subs
Total while losing: 97 subs

But how does that compare to others? I'm not sure you can draw too much from it.

Next step might be to add the final result

(I woke at 4am to watch the game this morning so I hope my logic and these numbers are correct)
 
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