Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[shaney]

I guess without those two last minute goals we would have lost those games?

How about the games where we deserved more? I suppose those don't fit your narrative?

It was 3 last minute winners, so without them we were obviously on course to draw them, so we would be 6 points worse off now without good fortune in all 3 of those games.

Please list the games we have lost/drawn this season where you feel we 100% deserved to win ?

 

[ringo]

West Ham won easily today. Not only that but they played a nice mixture of direct and slower build up football. On paper, out of their next eight or so games only Chelsea and Arsenal look particularly difficult -they also play the bottom four. They have bought some low profile players relatively cheaply, that fit into their system. They have width, pace and strength, going forward.

I don't see that with our current squad, under our current manager, playing our current style of football, it will be that easy to catch them.

But what annoys me more is --how did we ever find ourselves in this position? How have we manged to squander the best part of £100m, and end up mid-division playing poor football just a few seasons after being in the CL. Supporting spurs has always been a bit of a roller coaster ride - but you never quite get used to it. It is enough to make a(n) (almost) grown man cry.....

 

[Jurgen the German]

I think people just need to accept that whoever the manager is, we have gone backwards and the money we wasted last season will set us back a couple of years, if not more.

Top 4 is not going to happen. Finishing in the top 6 will be a very hard feat to accomplish.

You can try and belittle other teams all you like e.g. "West Ham have been lucky", but they've beat Emirates Marketing Project. "Southampton only beat **** teams". The only decent teams we've beaten are West Ham, Everton and Southampton, but hang on, they've only beaten crap teams so our win over them can't be that impressive can it? We are a team with zero in form strikers, our goals come mainly from two players who some posters have asked to be benched on numerous occasions, we have the likes of Chiriches and Kaboul competing to be our centre halves :lol: "defensive midfielders" who offer no protection to the back four at all (Capoue). In fact, I am unsure what he offers period. We have no width, hopefully this will change when Walker returns and Yedlin comes aboard. We also have a relatively inexeprienced manager.

I am all for giving him time, but I don't see us finishing higher than 7th this season. A bit more realism would be welcomed.

 

[Finney Is Back]

no and i dont expect us to get hammered most weeks this season neither.. pay attention.

Ok so what do you expect? Surely a 'reasonable' expectation would be to match Sherwood's results with effectively the same squad? (plus and minus the players he wanted to bring in/move on) I would probably also presume that you would want to see an improvement in results seeing as we (supposedly) now have a much better manager in charge now?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sherwoods team lost to the better sides and beat the sides that weren't as good as us.

We really weren't that bad and now look significantly worse.

It may be short term pain for long term gain or it may be short term pain followed by more pain.... I think some of us feel that there has been 2 steps back for everyone forward so far and were no where near to playing our best available team from the players we have currently available (square pegs and round holes)

if we did sack Poch which I seriously doubt we would do is look for a young British manager like Warbartin at Brentford but we would never ever consider that

 

[Finney Is Back]

It was 3 last minute winners, so without them we were obviously on course to draw them, so we would be 6 points worse off now without good fortune in all 3 of those games.

Please list the games we have lost/drawn this season where you feel we 100% deserved to win ?

Sunderland I think we deserved more. That's it though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sunderland I think we deserved more. That's it though.

100% but is the only game I remember whwre

 

[braineclipse]

As opposed to him saying a clean sheet is a bad thing, we didnt want to win, im unhappy to have made 100 appearances for the club and hopefully I wont make 200 ?

Yes, I can see how happy he "clearly" is by that tweet.

You really cannot see a difference in Vertonghen's mood this season compared to last season? Or are you just being difficult for the sake of it?

I thought Lennon had barely started a game this season?

Oh right. It's just this season we can use to evaluate Lennon? Lennon has been here nearly 10 seasons, but by all means let us limit ourselves to just this season when talking about his abilities...

I had a look through some of the pages of the Lennon thread from last season. Wasn't exactly all "keep playing him, he's doing so much for us" stuff. Including some solid negativity from posters that now seem convinced that Lennon is the obvious solution to our problems.

It was 3 last minute winners, so without them we were obviously on course to draw them, so we would be 6 points worse off now without good fortune in all 3 of those games.

Please list the games we have lost/drawn this season where you feel we 100% deserved to win ?

My bad, was thinking of the 2 red card late winners.

My point was one about perspective. If listing all the points we didn't deserve surely the fair and honest thing is to also include those we did deserve, but didn't get? But alas, this is too much to ask.

We deserved a win against Sunderland, I thought we were good for at least a point against Stoke and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. And whilst it's true that Palace had the better chances against us yesterday, it's also true that we (like United) have one of the best goalies in the league. I'm not sure it counts as just lucky to have a good goalkeeper do better than an average one.

All in all if we had only gotten what we deserved I think we would have been 2-4 points behind where we are. I something similar is true for Liverpool and United. No idea about West Ham, Southampton etc.

 

[braineclipse]

Sherwoods team lost to the better sides and beat the sides that weren't as good as us.

We really weren't that bad and now look significantly worse.

It may be short term pain for long term gain or it may be short term pain followed by more pain.... I think some of us feel that there has been 2 steps back for everyone forward so far and were no where near to playing our best available team from the players we have currently available (square pegs and round holes)

if we did sack Poch which I seriously doubt we would do is look for a young British manager like Warbartin at Brentford but we would never ever consider that

Sherwood got Adebayor going for a while. No manager at any club has really managed to get him to perform consistently over time and I don't think Sherwood would have either, there were clear signs towards the end of last season that the "back from brink" effect was wearing off and Adebayor was returning to his usual self.

Had Poch had the Adebaoyr or Sherwood's reign I think we would have done significantly better than we have so far this season.

 

[Raziel]

To those jokers posters who say that Poch should get the boot now, can I ask:

1) who should come in to replace him at this current time?

2) for each candidate list how realistic it is that DL will work his magic and that they will come?

3) How long do you think it will take said manager to get us to where you think we should be now?

Ta

For arguments sake, because you seem to think people are fools for questioning Poch

1. Not a young inexperienced system manager, someone with 20 or so years experience, hopefully with a good part of that in PL, with trophies if possible. Not my job to find that person, but the obvious fit = Fat Spanish Waiter

2. Spurs pay some of the highest managerial salaries in Europe (all the way back to Ramos), so we can tempt good managers

3. Probably this time next season

My questions for you

4. What have you seen from Poch at spurs that indicates he's even a mediocre manager?

5. Would you still feel that way if he sells Lennon & Soldado and keeps Lamela and Paulinho?

6. How long will you give Poch to make us look like a side that can beat West Brom, Palace, Stoke, Sunderland?

7. Why does change/settling in period = dire/uninspired/slow football?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sherwood got Adebayor going for a while. No manager at any club has really managed to get him to perform consistently over time and I don't think Sherwood would have either, there were clear signs towards the end of last season that the "back from brink" effect was wearing off and Adebayor was returning to his usual self.

Had Poch had the Adebaoyr or Sherwood's reign I think we would have done significantly better than we have so far this season.

Surely that's good management then? Getting the best out your players!!!

 

[Raziel]

Oh right. It's just this season we can use to evaluate Lennon? Lennon has been here nearly 10 seasons, but by all means let us limit ourselves to just this season when talking about his abilities...

I had a look through some of the pages of the Lennon thread from last season. Wasn't exactly all "keep playing him, he's doing so much for us" stuff. Including some solid negativity from posters that now seem convinced that Lennon is the obvious solution to our problems.

Yes, and lets realize Lennon was key in the best Spurs teams and performances in those 10 years.

And his worst performances have come under **** managers who have gone for slow build up, possession without threat play.

For what its worth, I don't think Lennon is our savior, but when its clear you are struggling with width and pace in the side, very hard to understand why he isn't starting.

 

[Baleforce]

maybe sherwood did do something to get ade focused again, maybe it was just coincidence, maybe ade has a new manager mode and it was as simple as that, he started ok this season didn't he

it just rarely lasts for long, wenger got it out of him for a bit, so did Arry, the fact that even Jose struggled speaks volumes

 

[Raziel]

Surely that's good management then? Getting the best out your players!!!

Not if it really only translates into a dead cat bounce.

TS got a good reaction from players who just wanted to play (not be taught an unproven science lesson) and got Ade playing, but as the previous poster mentioned, by the last 5+ games of season he had already gone back to Ade Mk2

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sherwood got Adebayor going for a while. No manager at any club has really managed to get him to perform consistently over time and I don't think Sherwood would have either, there were clear signs towards the end of last season that the "back from brink" effect was wearing off and Adebayor was returning to his usual self.

Had Poch had the Adebaoyr or Sherwood's reign I think we would have done significantly better than we have so far this season.

Interesting.... Personally I felt that our last couple of performances under Sherwood were our best of his tenure. We looked as though we were really starting to play as a team.

 

[sc25]

I don't see how Poch performance this season can or should be 'written off'. Thats not the reality of it and not how it works. Its his 1st season here, but no team in footy these days, especially with the money involved, stadiums, investments, sponsorships, Cup revenues, European revenues, etc, is in a position to write off the performance of its manager for a year. Especially us.

We have some players, and some big money players, and how well he does with them this season is crucial to both us and their careers. Some of them will be sold in Jan or next summer, so no way his performance with them can be written off.

He also doesn't have the resume and body of work to afford that. Assessment of managers is on-going. They all know it and it comes with the territory. If we were 2nd place right now we wouldn't be writing off anything and we'd be talking him up. Would we be saying we are 2nd, but writing off the job Poch had done? Have Saints fans all written off Koman's performance this year?

When Poch came from the background that he has and you move to a big club, you are going to be watched closely right from the get-go. He knows that and he chose to take it on. If we struggle and finish bottom half he would be under a lot of pressure next season especially if we started out slow. I imagine Poch will want to finish as high as he can this season, but no matter where we finish he will be evaluated, by the club and others. Top or bottom, he will have done some things well and some things not so well, and he will be held accountable, as all managers are.

 

[braineclipse]

Yes, and lets realize Lennon was key in the best Spurs teams and performances in those 10 years.

And his worst performances have come under **** managers who have gone for slow build up, possession without threat play.

For what its worth, I don't think Lennon is our savior, but when its clear you are struggling with width and pace in the side, very hard to understand why he isn't starting.

How many keys were there in that team?

His best performances have come when we have functioned well as a team. His worst when we haven't. This is pretty typical of course, but I see no reason to think he was the key to make us play that well.

Similarly when we're likely to be up against a team that isn't going to give him space to run into it's somewhat easier to understand why he isn't starting.

It seems perfectly clear to me at least that Poch isn't going for slow build up or possession without threat.

Not if it really only translates into a dead cat bounce.

TS got a good reaction from players who just wanted to play (not be taught an unproven science lesson) and got Ade playing, but as the previous poster mentioned, by the last 5+ games of season he had already gone back to Ade Mk2

Precisely. Like I said, I see no reason to think that Sherwood was going to get consistently good performances out of Ade.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Mourinho blamed the ball boys for their loss yesterday.

You are not seriously trying to compare Jose Mourinho , one of the worlds best managers and a master at deflecting criticism from his players to Pochettino, seriously?

 

[metalgear]

Funny thing. Poch is both accusing of being too stubborn and of chopping and changing too much. Probably means that he's finding a reasonable balance...

I think it's one and the same thing - Poch is stubborn in making the players play the football he wants regardless of the players best attributes, and is chopping and changing to make it work, despite increasing evidence that at the moment we don't have the right squad to make it work?

Having said that if the rumours about Ade and Kaboul is true, it is but a necessary and welcome change, and maybe the most critical one for Poch yet.

 

[braineclipse]

You are not seriously trying to compare Jose Mourinho , one of the worlds best managers and a master at deflecting criticism from his players to Pochettino, seriously?

He's illustrating a point with a recent and relevant example.

A point you'd have to be a bit dim to not understand...