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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

glorygloryeze said:
I still scratch my head as to why they appointed Jose but then didn't change the way they spend in the January transfer window when we had Kane on another long injury and he said he needed a number 9....

Jose is the antithesis to how ENIC/Levy have gone about their business up to now and if in January they showed they were changing it would have made them appointing Jose make sense. The more and more i think about it, the more i think the Amazon documentary was the deciding factor (apparently Pochettino is barely featured in much of it because he didn't agree with the decision to make it and refused to take part...this might be why there were reports of his being in his office constantly instead of our on the training ground?)

Ultimately, i don't blame Jose in the broad scheme of things, he's being himself tbh
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In guessing we didn’t change the way we spend in the January window as we spent £100m in the window before and committed in the jan window to buy Lo Celso and Bergwein (so £50m there)
I also assume that the plan was to invest more this summer as we would have had another £100m plus to spend
 
lack of movement in the Jan window doesn't really prove anything, i agree.

Difficult window to sign players in with or without money.

Signing Bergwijn is actually an improvement on previous windows - and could be argued a WF could free up Son to fill in at CF
 
glorygloryeze said:
I still scratch my head as to why they appointed Jose but then didn't change the way they spend in the January transfer window when we had Kane on another long injury and he said he needed a number 9....

Jose is the antithesis to how ENIC/Levy have gone about their business up to now and if in January they showed they were changing it would have made them appointing Jose make sense. The more and more i think about it, the more i think the Amazon documentary was the deciding factor (apparently Pochettino is barely featured in much of it because he didn't agree with the decision to make it and refused to take part...this might be why there were reports of his being in his office constantly instead of our on the training ground?)

Ultimately, i don't blame Jose in the broad scheme of things, he's being himself tbh
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Poch wanted to be in the office watching players via video. The club refused the cameras for him and by all accounts he offered to pay for them himself ... if you believe all the brick written
That to me (if true) was a Poch trying to separate himself form the players so he could make the hard calls which were needed
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The man appointing them is fine but in reality in the game you need a bottomless out of money to make a real difference to win things. The sole measure now is trophies (the lack of will always be sued against Pochs “success”)
Unless or until we have owners who are happy to fund the club the tide won’t turn. last year I believe Poch was a asked because of VAR. Yep it sounds daft but certain key games which would have given us momentum went against because of VARs failings (Leicester and Saudi Sportswashing Machine) and it stopped Pochs team getting a run going
This year we would have spent considerable money if we had the ground open (as shown last season) but now COVID has kicked us in the balls and we have no money
The worse thing is these events will mean we lose Kane and then the club will have to pay out a lot of money to replace his goals. It’s all counter intuitive and actually damaging the clubs position and value but I don’t see what ENIC can do to change things. It’s a fund with no money in it and no other investments, owned by two people, one of whom is loaded but has zero interest in football and both have already made a 1000% or more on their investment.
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It’s a fair point and I’m a massive, massive Levy fan. I take my hat off to what he’s done and I agree with David Buchler (I think) - the guy deserves a statue. To get us consistently in the top 6 after a decade and half outside it, to provide the infrastructure and revenue he’s provided, to build a stadium which is magnificent and has benefits well beyond the club is incredible.

But we’re Tottenham. And football is about trophies and successes. Has his approach taken us as far as it can? If Jose fails, how do we win a trophy? We’ve been on a “long term” plan for 20 years now. It’s 20 years later and I’ve seen one league cup win. At some stage, you have to brick or get off the pot.

I still believe that Jose will deliver for us but if he doesn’t and if he gets the bullet or walks any time soon, it would be foolish not to start questioning Levy/ENIC.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
In guessing we didn’t change the way we spend in the January window as we spent £100m in the window before and committed in the jan window to buy Lo Celso and Bergwein (so £50m there)
I also assume that the plan was to invest more this summer as we would have had another £100m plus to spend
Click to expand...

Jose wanted/needed a number 9 then, not the summer. He said as much at the time about "how could anyone expect him to get results without a number 9" or words to that effect.
Yes, it shows how limited his coaching repertoire is, but we were where we were, he is what he is and ENIC, well, showed they were still ENIC.

His lack of not being able to play with a number 9 was leading to a massive meltdown and that was only allayed by the pandemic-enforced break...i don't want to imagine how bad things would have gotten if that hadn't come along to give us a chance to get back our walking wounded...
 
DeanoAustin said:
It’s a fair point and I’m a massive, massive Levy fan. I take my hat off to what he’s done and I agree with David Buchler (I think) - the guy deserves a statue. To get us consistently in the top 6 after a decade and half outside it, to provide the infrastructure and revenue he’s provided, to build a stadium which is magnificent and has benefits well beyond the club is incredible.

But we’re Tottenham. And football is about trophies and successes. Has his approach taken us as far as it can? If Jose fails, how do we win a trophy? We’ve been on a “long term” plan for 20 years now. It’s 20 years later and I’ve seen one league cup win. At some stage, you have to brick or get off the pot.

I still believe that Jose will deliver for us but if he doesn’t and if he gets the bullet or walks any time soon, it would be foolish not to start questioning Levy/ENIC.
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I still say his approach was to spend his way out of the problem but that plan relied on a normal world with people attending football and events. Quite a sustainable reasonable approach. But as it’s the Tottenham way the world changed in an unprecedented manner and fudged his plan
 
glorygloryeze said:
Jose wanted/needed a number 9 then, not the summer. He said as much at the time about "how could anyone expect him to get results without a number 9" or words to that effect.
Yes, it shows how limited his coaching repertoire is, but we were where we were, he is what he is and ENIC, well, showed they were still ENIC.

His lack of not being able to play with a number 9 was leading to a massive meltdown and that was only allayed by the pandemic-enforced break...i don't want to imagine how bad things would have gotten if that hadn't come along to give us a chance to get back our walking wounded...
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Well we wouldn’t have the fixtures issue now
But we would have had plenty of money to spend so no excuses there for him
Maybe we should blame Poch as he let Llorente go ...
 
DeanoAustin said:
It’s a fair point and I’m a massive, massive Levy fan. I take my hat off to what he’s done and I agree with David Buchler (I think) - the guy deserves a statue. To get us consistently in the top 6 after a decade and half outside it, to provide the infrastructure and revenue he’s provided, to build a stadium which is magnificent and has benefits well beyond the club is incredible.

But we’re Tottenham. And football is about trophies and successes. Has his approach taken us as far as it can? If Jose fails, how do we win a trophy? We’ve been on a “long term” plan for 20 years now. It’s 20 years later and I’ve seen one league cup win. At some stage, you have to brick or get off the pot.

I still believe that Jose will deliver for us but if he doesn’t and if he gets the bullet or walks any time soon, it would be foolish not to start questioning Levy/ENIC.
Click to expand...

This idea that the modern Mourinho is some kind of magic wand to win trophies is a bit simple minded, he like any manager needs the right tools in order to succeed.

We simply do not have those tools at the moment to compete at the top of the league and to consider ourselves as favourites for any of the lesser trophies.
 
billyiddo said:
lack of movement in the Jan window doesn't really prove anything, i agree.

Difficult window to sign players in with or without money.

Signing Bergwijn is actually an improvement on previous windows - and could be argued a WF could free up Son to fill in at CF
Click to expand...

Well, Jose himself said he needed a number 9. If you are going to hire such a manager, you have to back him so he at least fails on his own terms...

If we had a different manager i'd agree the January window wasn't a disaster. But again, ENIC constantly have an excuse, whether it be:

- we couldn't compete because we are not in Europe and players want to play for clubs in Europe
- we couldn't compete because we are not in CL but players we wanted want to play in CL
- We couldn't find the players that would improve the squad because it's so good
- we didn't have time to finalise deals because the summer window now shuts earlier
- it's difficult to buy in January and on, and on..

You hire Jose, you then back him, simples. He's have taken a CF on loan unlike Poch as well...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Well we wouldn’t have the fixtures issue now
But we would have had plenty of money to spend so no excuses there for him
Maybe we should blame Poch as he let Llorente go ...
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Letting Llorente go wasn't a big deal (he'd run his course). Not getting another striker for either Poch or Jose is the bit in question, especially for Jose and Poch had shown he was able to work around not having a Kane/number 9 whilst Jose has consistently shown in recent years he cannot...no point having him here if he says he needs one AFTER our main one is injured and we instead buy a WF (as good as that WF is).
 
glorygloryeze said:
Well, Jose himself said he needed a number 9. If you are going to hire such a manager, you have to back him so he at least fails on his own terms...

If we had a different manager i'd agree the January window wasn't a disaster. But again, ENIC constantly have an excuse, whether it be:

- we couldn't compete because we are not in Europe and players want to play for clubs in Europe
- we couldn't compete because we are not in CL but players we wanted want to play in CL
- We couldn't find the players that would improve the squad because it's so good
- we didn't have time to finalise deals because the summer window now shuts earlier
- it's difficult to buy in January and on, and on..

You hire Jose, you then back him, simples. He's have taken a CF on loan unlike Poch as well...
Click to expand...
We knows what was said by Jose on the heavily “managed” documentary
We don’t know what was actually said about transfers though. It easily could have been here’s what we can get in January Jose...
if we wait until the summer window when we will have more money to spend we think we can get this calibre of player...
that’s not an unrealistic position for any club or coach to deal with, but again we don’t know the actual facts, just speculation and a heavily sanitised documentary
 
billyiddo said:
This idea that the modern Mourinho is some kind of magic wand to win trophies is a bit simple minded, he like any manager needs the right tools in order to succeed.

We simply do not have those tools at the moment to compete at the top of the league and to consider ourselves as favourites for any of the lesser trophies.
Click to expand...

True...but if you are going to hire him you need to provide said tools...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Letting Llorente go wasn't a big deal (he'd run his course). Not getting another striker for either Poch or Jose is the bit in question, especially for Jose and Poch had shown he was able to work around not having a Kane/number 9 whilst Jose has consistently shown in recent years he cannot...no point having him here if he says he needs one AFTER our main one is injured and we instead buy a WF (as good as that WF is).
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Jose worked around not having a Kane. Son scored 5 in 6 as striker
Same as what Poch did except with Poch he had LLorente supporting him. Letting Llorente go in a free was IMO criminal if we didn’t have anyone agreed to join (which clearly we didn’t). And I say that as someone who thought he was a lamppost who actually offered nothing as a goal threat, but did the basics a striker needed to do
 
glorygloryeze said:
Well, Jose himself said he needed a number 9. If you are going to hire such a manager, you have to back him so he at least fails on his own terms...

If we had a different manager i'd agree the January window wasn't a disaster. But again, ENIC constantly have an excuse, whether it be:

- we couldn't compete because we are not in Europe and players want to play for clubs in Europe
- we couldn't compete because we are not in CL but players we wanted want to play in CL
- We couldn't find the players that would improve the squad because it's so good
- we didn't have time to finalise deals because the summer window now shuts earlier
- it's difficult to buy in January and on, and on..

You hire Jose, you then back him, simples. He's have taken a CF on loan unlike Poch as well...
Click to expand...

You hire any manager you should back them, and any manager at any club in the league has to work within the constraints of the club.

Poch signed off on the window of no transfers remember? he signed off on the n'koudous and n'gies - Mourinho must have signed off on the January window right?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We knows what was said by Jose on the heavily “managed” documentary
We don’t know what was actually said about transfers though. It easily could have been here’s what we can get in January Jose...
if we wait until the summer window when we will have more money to spend we think we can get this calibre of player...
that’s not an unrealistic position for any club or coach to deal with, but again we don’t know the actual facts, just speculation and a heavily sanitised documentary
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Tbh, i've barely seen any of the documentary, i'm purely goling by what Jose himself said in press conferences earlier this year in January. He said openly that he needed a number 9 and Jose doesn't do long-term as we all know. So i think it's a slight leap to tell him "Hi Jose, we know you don't have Kane and need a number 9 to function, fancy playing without one for the rest of the season and the season bombing before we try and buy a new one in the summer when we might be even less attractive?"

It's all speculation, i agree, but we have quite a lot of body of work from both ENIC and Jose to have a good idea which speculation is more realistic...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Jose worked around not having a Kane. Son scored 5 in 6 as striker
Same as what Poch did except with Poch he had LLorente supporting him. Letting Llorente go in a free was IMO criminal if we didn’t have anyone agreed to join (which clearly we didn’t). And I say that as someone who thought he was a lamppost who actually offered nothing as a goal threat, but did the basics a striker needed to do
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I blame Levy for this. As chairman the composition of the squad is ultimately up to him. Knowing that Kane gets injured for a period of time every season and knowing that we were letting our (admittedly poor) backup striker leave. To not make sure a option came through the foot that window is incompetence.

You knew we needed a striker, I knew we needed a striker. Everyone on this board knew we needed a striker yet Levy didn't think that critical need was as important as it was.

We can spin it any way we want at the end of the day the chairman the man ultimately in charge let us go into to another season critically undercooked.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Jose worked around not having a Kane. Son scored 5 in 6 as striker
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Before and during this Jose still complained about not having a number 9; now we can talk about whether this was or wasn't a slight on Sonny, but you can see with the way Jose likes to play Son cannot play that hold the ball up physical role ala Drogba, Costa, Lukaku etc

Bedfordspurs said:
Same as what Poch did except with Poch he had LLorente supporting him. Letting Llorente go in a free was IMO criminal if we didn’t have anyone agreed to join (which clearly we didn’t). And I say that as someone who thought he was a lamppost who actually offered nothing as a goal threat, but did the basics a striker needed to do
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I agree, that was criminal..but we've seen it so many times before...
 
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