Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[DeanoAustin]

This idea that the modern Mourinho is some kind of magic wand to win trophies is a bit simple minded, he like any manager needs the right tools in order to succeed.

We simply do not have those tools at the moment to compete at the top of the league and to consider ourselves as favourites for any of the lesser trophies.

We're talking about a man who has won trophies at every club he's been to. He's elevated Porto to UEFA and Champions League wins. He elevated Inter to the Champions League. He elevated Chelsea to Premier League titles. You could even argue that he elevated United given where they were coming from after Fergie.

If he doesn't do it here then I'm saying the same as you. The owners aren't giving him the tools to succeed so maybe they are the problem.

 

[glorygloryeze]

You hire any manager you should back them, and any manager at any club in the league has to work within the constraints of the club.

Poch signed off on the window of no transfers remember? he signed off on the n'koudous and n'gies - Mourinho must have signed off on the January window right?

I agree. But hiring Jose means changing the way you operate...ENIC didn't and imo still haven't so then the question is: what was the point?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I blame Levy for this. As chairman the composition of the squad is ultimately up to him. Knowing that Kane gets injured for a period of time every season and knowing that we were letting our (admittedly poor) backup striker leave. To not make sure a option came through the foot that window is incompetence.

You knew we needed a striker, I knew we needed a striker. Everyone on this board knew we needed a striker yet Levy didn't think that critical need was as important as it was.

We can spin it any way we want at the end of the day the chairman the man ultimately in charge let us go into to another season critically undercooked.

Well the window hasn’t finished yet and we don’t know what Poch asked for last summer form Levy do we?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree. But hiring Jose means changing the way you operate...ENIC didn't and imo still haven't so then the question is: what was the point?

But they couldn’t operate in the manner you describe in the last as we didn’t have the money. Then everything was set to operate like that and the money gets taken away... do you not agree with that?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Before and during this Jose still complained about not having a number 9; now we can talk about whether this was or wasn't a slight on Sonny, but you can see with the way Jose likes to play Son cannot play that hold the ball up physical role ala Drogba, Costa, Lukaku etc



I agree, that was criminal..but we've seen it so many times before...

We have
Why did Poch want to let Llorente go. That’s a question that gets forgotten. Maybe he had plans to integrate Parrott more

 

[billyiddo]

We're talking about a man who has won trophies at every club he's been to. He's elevated Porto to UEFA and Champions League wins. He elevated Inter to the Champions League. He elevated Chelsea to Premier League titles. You could even argue that he elevated United given where they were coming from after Fergie.

If he doesn't do it here then I'm saying the same as you. The owners aren't giving him the tools to succeed so maybe they are the problem.

I won't go over the "Mourinho is on the decline" line of debate again as if people can't see that by now then there's not much more to say but my wider point regardless of that is that we have appointed the wrong man for the job at hand - we are in a position of needing to rebuild a spent squad and have appointed a manager thinking he'd get them over the line as though they were still at their peak. A massive mistake but not proof that every way we go we are destined to fail.

We haven't appointed peak Mourinho to a team with more to give is what I'm saying - which the whole "if Levy can't make it work with Mourinho..." point relies upon being the case.

 

[glorygloryeze]

But they couldn’t operate in the manner you describe in the last as we didn’t have the money. Then everything was set to operate like that and the money gets taken away... do you not agree with that?

I'm talking about the January transfer window which was BEFORE the pandemic shutdown. That was the moment to show that things were different: we started floundering after a good upturn when Jose first joined and if they were indeed operating differently they'd have brought in what he said openly that he needed for his team to function: another number 9.
There was no 'lack of money' excuses at that time, compared to the summer.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm talking about the January transfer window which was BEFORE the pandemic shutdown. That was the moment to show that things were different: we started floundering after a good upturn when Jose first joined and if they were indeed operating differently they'd have bought in what he said openly that he needed for his team to function: another number 9.
There was no 'lack of money' excuses at that time, compared to the summer.

We spent £180m last season... I’d consider that as a huge outlay and we brought in a lot of players in that time

 

[glorygloryeze]

We have
Why did Poch want to let Llorente go. That’s a question that gets forgotten. Maybe he had plans to integrate Parrott more

Or maybe Poch was promised Dybala, or maybe Poch wanted EMIC to buy another striker but in the end we didn't bring in ANY forward so who knows.
It's a leap to speak of Parrot given all we have seen before and after Poch was sacked...

 

[glorygloryeze]

We spent £180m last season... I’d consider that as a huge outlay and we bought in a lot of players in that time

But we didn;t bring in the key ingredient that THIS CURRENT manager wanted and said he needed. As i've said, if you are going to hire Jose you have to change how you operate and give him key things that he asks for; he's not Poch or others of that type of coach that will "try and make do" etc

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Or maybe Poch was promised Dybala, or maybe Poch wanted EMIC to buy another striker but in the end we didn't bring in ANY forward so who knows.
It's a leap to speak of Parrot given all we have seen before and after Poch was sacked...

as I said before we don’t know the facts, just speculation
We do know that Dybala wasn’t available until very late in the window and also he isn’t a player similar to Kane so he could have been brilliant but also highly unlikely when we let Llorente go for example

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But we didn;t bring in the key ingredient that THIS CURRENT manager wanted and said he needed. As i've said, if you are going to hire Jose you have to change how you operate and give him key things that he asks for; he's not Poch or others of that type of coach that will "try and make do" etc

But to do that we need money
The money would have been planned for and it’s gone... it’s not there anymore due to a virus
What do you do?
Take out a loan?
The club now have to work in a way that’s suits a coach like Poch, but when we sacked a Poch we needed a manager who knew how to buy players...

 

[DeanoAustin]

I won't go over the "Mourinho is on the decline" line of debate again as if people can't see that by now then there's not much more to say but my wider point regardless of that is that we have appointed the wrong man for the job at hand - we are in a position of needing to rebuild a spent squad and have appointed a manager thinking he'd get them over the line as though they were still at their peak. A massive mistake but not proof that every way we go we are destined to fail.

We haven't appointed peak Mourinho to a team with more to give is what I'm saying - which the whole "if Levy can't make it work with Mourinho..." point relies upon being the case.

I don't agree but if that is the case, you'd have to question the wisdom of Levy appointing a man who has lost the ability to win trophies despite having it everywhere else he's gone regardless of the resources available to him (which, despite popular opinion, have been varied when you look at Porto, Inter Milan and, arguably, Man Utd).

 

[glorygloryeze]

I won't go over the "Mourinho is on the decline" line of debate again as if people can't see that by now then there's not much more to say but my wider point regardless of that is that we have appointed the wrong man for the job at hand - we are in a position of needing to rebuild a spent squad and have appointed a manager thinking he'd get them over the line as though they were still at their peak. A massive mistake but not proof that every way we go we are destined to fail.

We haven't appointed peak Mourinho to a team with more to give is what I'm saying - which the whole "if Levy can't make it work with Mourinho..." point relies upon being the case.

You have to question the club hierarchy on this: what does it say about their thinking that they seemingly believed where Jose failed at Chelski and then at Man Utd, he would instead succeed with Spurs because we are just so much better placed to succeed than those clubs, and somehow the conditions of work at those clubs are nowhere near as good as at good ol' Spurs...

OK, once you get over that big leap in logic, you then think ok, why hire said coach but still operate no differently in terms of the first transfer market in his tenure?

And we are talking a hierarchy who have been in their position for nearly twenty years...everyone makes mistakes but this one (i think it is) means you DO have to question how their actions fit in with any form of logic

 

[billyiddo]

But we didn;t bring in the key ingredient that THIS CURRENT manager wanted and said he needed. As i've said, if you are going to hire Jose you have to change how you operate and give him key things that he asks for; he's not Poch or others of that type of coach that will "try and make do" etc

Mourinho is no longer the level of manager who commands that sort of thinking - he's no longer the manager who has a queue of top clubs willing to appoint him. He's here on damage/reputation repair duty.

"New man, new philosopy"

And with that it means he needs to adapt his approach to prove himself to be a relevant manager once again

 

[glorygloryeze]

But to do that we need money
The money would have been planned for and it’s gone... it’s not there anymore due to a virus
What do you do?
Take out a loan?
The club now have to work in a way that’s suits a coach like Poch, but when we sacked a Poch we needed a manager who knew how to buy players...

Are you saying that in January we didn't have money to get in a number 9, even on loan? And if your answer is yes, then again: why hire Jose??

 

[billyiddo]

I don't agree but if that is the case, you'd have to question the wisdom of Levy appointing a man who has lost the ability to win trophies despite having it everywhere else he's gone regardless of the resources available to him (which, despite popular opinion, have been varied when you look at Porto, Inter Milan and, arguably, Man Utd).

Yes this appointment has me questioning Levy more than ever fwiw

 

[glorygloryeze]

Mourinho is no longer the level of manager who commands that sort of thinking - he's no longer the manager who has a queue of top clubs willing to appoint him. He's here on damage/reputation repair duty.

"New man, new philosopy"

He is it seems; but that is also a mirror image of Levy/ENIC; they both have reputations to repair imo

That "New man, new philosophy" statement can equally be applied to Levy/ENIC

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Are you saying that in January we didn't have money to get in a number 9, even on loan? And if your answer is yes, then again: why hire Jose??

Wow
As I’ve said loads already today
We brought in a manager to buy players and attract players in
Not for the first time at the club (or any club for that matter) in January we couldn’t get in a player that the club (that’s the whole by the way) wanted so they decided not to buy someone for that role.
we did however add 2 players to the 4 brought in the summer
I’m 100% sure the plan was (and still is) to get a striker in this window to add to the other players we needed. If we get in that one striker in addition to what we have that would be 10 players in 3 windows... is that not enough progress?

I’ll also use Liverpool as an example. They wanted one player in Van Dijk but couldn’t get him in the window when they played games... they didn’t panic as they knew he was who they wanted. So they waited and brought him when they could. Clubs do that sometimes and it can work. Of course pool could have waited and the whole world could have changed and they may never have been able to buy him but times were different then

 

[StephenH]

Totally irrelevant to the question. I’m just going to say it, if you’re going to wail on a thread after a loss try not posting as much dirge because it’s embarrassing.

Dirge was all I muster yesterday I was so disappointed (not sure you can be incandescent with 'dirge'? but I felt it), not at the result alone but at the sheer inevitability of it all. Then Mourinho reverted to type by calling the players out as 'lazy' in media which was the icing on the cake.
I really did want to be proved wrong with Jose.