Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Bedfordspurs]

I say it's probably a mixture of a) Jose mainly wanted big lumps and b) those who offered more than that wouldn't have wanted to play in a Jose-coached team (this last bit might just be my bias, i admit)

Players sign to okay for him
Players want to win trophies and wins them everywhere but maybe were the club that changes that ... w heave after all broken his own records quite timidly I might add so who knows

 

[glorygloryeze]

Players sign to okay for him
Players want to win trophies and wins them everywhere but maybe were the club that changes that ... w heave after all broken his own records quite timidly I might add so who knows

If you look closely at Jose's records and if you've been watching his teams closely you'll see that for the last 5 years he has been getting progressively worse, especially as our league has been adding more and more competitive overall in terms of having a plethora of the top coaches who can take him on. Having by far an away the best coaches and the biggest budget is not his situation now, and i think it's showing that he cannot compete when he's coming up against multiple teams and coaches who can take him on in a 'fair fight'...

It's just so S.Pursy that we are probably the team who started his decline (he's not been the same since new year's day 2015 imo) and the team that finally finishes off what reputation he has left of being a top coach...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If you look closely at Jose's records and if you've been watching his teams closely you'll see that for the last 5 years he has been getting progressively worse, especially as our league has been adding more and more competitive overall in terms of having a plethora of the top coaches who can take him on. Having by far an away the best coaches and the biggest budget is not his situation now, and i think it's showing that he cannot compete when he's coming up against multiple teams and coaches who can take him on in a 'fair fight'...

It's just so S.Pursy that we are probably the team who started his decline (he's not been the same since new year's day 2015 imo) and the team that finally finishes off what reputation he has left of being a top coach...

Didn’t his United team finish second ?
Then the next year win 2 proper trophies and the league cup
And havent United got no where near that since despite spending mega money still

as I said earlier, we brought him in IMO to spend the money we were getting through the new income. Poch has a relatively poor record when it came to spending big money and everyone loves to call our Jose as a chequebook manager. Now with COVID we’re about £180m light on what was planned and need a more “coach” manager. Issue is we have a chequebook manager on me mega money at the wrong time

 

[Modric THFC]

Don’t disagree
I do believe they had all their players there before the internationals other than the signings
For example Kane had 1 day with the team before internationals
Doherty has had 2 days
Winks was out, Tubby was out both with mysterious illnesses or COVID
Sissoko was out too wasnt he
And most of our team have been away and started internationals. It’s just silly the way the fixtures have been done for this season and it will break players
As I said earlier there midfield looked very fresh and capable. I may be wrong but I think that everyone apart from the defence was their all week in training for them

I agree with most of this.
But why did Mourinho pick players who had no pre season. Especially with another 8 games in next 3 weeks.

 

[metalgear]

Same with poch Post CL final and eriksen on the pitch.

We have zero attacking plans. Its like Jose just hopes that because we have Kane and Son that somehow we dont need any tactics

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[Bedfordspurs]

I agree with most of this.
But why did Mourinho pick players who had no pre season. Especially with another 8 games in next 3 weeks.

Aybe because he thought they were the best available technically and he was saving the others for Thursdays game which is a one off away game he needs to win
Also he did make a drama about players missing pre season because of CIVID but the club haven’t confirmed who has been isolating because of it (he also says players had to self isolate). Could be that some weren’t available for that reason ... I really don’t know

 

[glorygloryeze]

Didn’t his United team finish second ?
Then the next year win 2 proper trophies and the league cup
And havent United got no where near that since despite spending mega money still

as I said earlier, we bought him in IMO to spend the money we were getting through the new income. Poch has a relatively poor record when it came to spending big money and everyone loves to call our Jose as a chequebook manager. Now with COVID we’re about £180m light on what was planned and need a more “coach” manager. Issue is we have a chequebook manager on me mega money at the wrong time

Let's get it right: he took over a Emirates Marketing Project that were on a par with Emirates Marketing Project when he joined: yes they were in EL but had finished on same points as City just lost out CL on GD. They then went and bought quite a few expensive big players (Zlantan, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Bailey etc) but whilst they won both the league cup and the Europa league they still finished 6th and played mostly turgid. Leaguewise, he'd taken them backwards.
They did then buy Lukaku. Matic, Sanchez and Lindlof and they finished 2nd after starting toe-to-toe with City before tailing off and reverting mostly to turgid. If we ourselves didn't start tailing off from Easter Sunday i think we'd have overtaken them and given their lead in terms of points over us from November onwards says a lot imo.
The following seaso he was sacked and Ole has gotten much better out of the same playrs he left closer to the bottom 3 than the top 6, similar to how Hiddink and then Conte got those Chelsea players performing better after he left them just above the relegation zone...

I agree re the current covid situation, but as i've said elsewhere: they knew he was a chequebook manager and yet couldn't but him the striker he and everyone knew he craved in January. Hence, why i ultimately blame ENIC for our predicament: no point hiring Jose if the first thing he shows that he needs you get everything but that...

 

[Pirate55]

Let's get it right: he took over a Emirates Marketing Project that were on a par with Emirates Marketing Project when he joined: yes they were in EL but had finished on same points as City just lost out CL on GD. They then went and bought quite a few expensive big players (Zlantan, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Bailey etc) but whilst they won both the league cup and the Europa league they still finished 6th and played mostly turgid. Leaguewise, he'd taken them backwards.
They did then buy Lukaku. Matic, Sanchez and Lindlof and they finished 2nd after starting toe-to-toe with City before tailing off and reverting mostly to turgid. If we ourselves didn't start tailing off from Easter Sunday i think we'd have overtaken them and given their lead in terms of points over us from November onwards says a lot imo.
The following seaso he was sacked and Ole has gotten much better out of the same playrs he left closer to the bottom 3 than the top 6, similar to how Hiddink and then Conte got those Chelsea players performing better after he left them just above the relegation zone...

I agree re the current covid situation, but as i've said elsewhere: they knew he was a chequebook manager and yet couldn't but him the striker he and everyone knew he craved in January. Hence, why i ultimately blame ENIC for our predicament: no point hiring Jose if the first thing he shows that he needs you get everything but that...

Again. Blame the recruitment policy, not ENIC.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Son wasn't injured at that point, and we'd signed another wide forward in Bergwijn

Corona has affected our business in this window though, with Jose having a much clearer idea of what he needs having been here nearly a year

Don’t forget (and I think this has been covered in various press conferences and the doc) Jose has openly said that he thinks we already have all the big tools in place - and only need a few small additions.

Whether you think he’s towing the line or even trying to massage the current crop (doubt it) he’s never once indicated that he would need big signings, pre or during Corona.

So for me, he’s probably operating close to what he shook hands on back last year, it just plays out a little trickier in reality.

 

[90291Spur]

Don’t forget (and I think this has been covered in various press conferences and the doc) Jose has openly said that he thinks we already have all the big tools in place - and only need a few small additions.

Whether you think he’s towing the line or even trying to massage the current crop (doubt it) he’s never once indicated that he would need big signings, pre or during Corona.

So for me, he’s probably operating close to what he shook hands on back last year, it just plays out a little trickier in reality.

Many vs Everton played like big tools.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's not ENIC. It's our shambolic recruitment policy. We have bought numerous players and spent not inconsiderable money. Since Son, which player has improved us?

I think the issue there is that we had such a nucleus of brilliant players once Son settled that buying was never going to be easy as players want to feel they're in with a good chance of becoming a regular, and in the days of Walker, Rose, Kane, Eriksen, Son, Dele, Jan and Toby, it was tough to convince people they would not start every week when fit; even Dembele would've started every week had he been able to. I thought when the Walker thing blew up, Poch signaled to young talent out there that it WAS possible to come in and make it yours by effectively not letting Walker hold the keys and instead promoting Trippier.

There are a couple of deals which have always intrigued me (rumored I should say). DeLigt was one of them, Sancho another. Both were players we very actively wanted, and for whatever reason did not happen (in Sancho's case the rumour was Emirates Marketing Project would not sell to us) but given the remit Pochettino had, the stadium build, the financial situation and all of that, we needed to move players out that he wanted to bring the sort of young talent in he could work with IMO.

I think the only utter disaster was Janssen, and I am not entirely convinced that Poch could not have done more there - it feels like there was a clash early on and he would not let go, but I don't know the story at all.

The saddest thing is that by the time Levy half did what Poch wanted, the fractures were too great, thus 100 mill of talent only for him to be out three months later...

 

[thfcsteff]

I think thats an oversimplification of a large body of work, Chelsea were so much more than Drogba, Inter more than Milito, he didn't have that kind of player at Madrid, at United it was Lukaku, who was useless. His most important work was done without the ball imo.

Benzema is a pretty classic number 9 IMO.

 

[Baleforce]

Benzema is a pretty classic number 9 IMO.

no way he counts as a big lump up front, he’s way better than that

 

[thfcsteff]

no way he counts as a big lump up front, he’s way better than that

Great striker, and yes, agreed. I am not calling him Mickey Quinn, but he is a muscular unit of a 9 who was actually stunted by Mourinho precisely because he was not really played to his full potential and consequently was left wandering around lost as Mourinho tried to add "aggressive big CF" into his repertoire. Mourinho saw his physicality and wanted more from that IMO. Sounds familiar sadly. I think Kane has to go at the end of the season if only to be the player he is. Mourinho won't allow him to be that.

Besides, by your implication, Drogba was "a lump"? Nah. He was quality. Mourinho just wanted all his physically-gifted CFs to become Diego Costa. He might as well fudging sign him again!

 

[Baleforce]

Big lump wasn’t my definition, I defended drogba too, but he was still a dominating forward, Benzema is subtle, deft, elusive, a very different player.

 

[thfcsteff]

Big lump wasn’t my definition, I defended drogba too, but he was still a dominating forward, Benzema is subtle, deft, elusive, a very different player.

I won't go down the rabbit hole here, but you would accept that he has the physical characteristics which would make someone like Mourinho think he can use him as a "Mourinho #9" right? Again, none of the players mentioned are Mickey Quinn! The point being made -as I understand it- is that he likes to have a "target man" which others play off as much as a striker who gets service and is fed via combinations and patterns. The way we set up under Poch, Harry had several interchanging team mates, the license to drift and swap plus a midfielder who could thread the eye of a needle. He is being asked to do a different set of things here, chiefly because Mourinho does not play that kind of football. Fair to say, I think. He appears to like high quality 9s who he can then attempt to turn into snarling animals!!!!

 

[Baleforce]

I won't go down the rabbit hole here, but you would accept that he has the physical characteristics which would make someone like Mourinho think he can use him as a "Mourinho #9" right? Again, none of the players mentioned are Mickey Quinn! The point being made -as I understand it- is that he likes to have a "target man" which others play off as much as a striker who gets service and is fed via combinations and patterns. The way we set up under Poch, Harry had several interchanging team mates, the license to drift and swap plus a midfielder who could thread the eye of a needle. He is being asked to do a different set of things here, chiefly because Mourinho does not play that kind of football. Fair to say, I think. He appears to like high quality 9s who he can then attempt to turn into snarling animals!!!!

I don’t agree, I can’t really remember, but that’s not the impression I have of his use of Benzema at Madrid either, he was used to facilitate Ronaldo and Di Maria imo, through guile rather than bombast.

We don’t look like we are trying to play through Kane as a target man to me, long balls are channels or diagonals to runners from deep, and we don’t play that many, our attacking is based on interplay down the right and quick breaks, or balls over the top to Son and Moura should a defence leave space.

If Kane is being instructed to play with his back to goal lay it wide and spin into the box and get to crosses, he’s not making a very good fist of it.

I’m not sure Kane is being asked to do different things, other than defensive set piece plays, I don’t see his movement curtailed by strict instruction.

 

[metalgear]

Yeah we good our big tools but they were still budget buy big tools.

Don’t forget (and I think this has been covered in various press conferences and the doc) Jose has openly said that he thinks we already have all the big tools in place - and only need a few small additions.

Whether you think he’s towing the line or even trying to massage the current crop (doubt it) he’s never once indicated that he would need big signings, pre or during Corona.

So for me, he’s probably operating close to what he shook hands on back last year, it just plays out a little trickier in reality.

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[Bedfordspurs]

I think the issue there is that we had such a nucleus of brilliant players once Son settled that buying was never going to be easy as players want to feel they're in with a good chance of becoming a regular, and in the days of Walker, Rose, Kane, Eriksen, Son, Dele, Jan and Toby, it was tough to convince people they would not start every week when fit; even Dembele would've started every week had he been able to. I thought when the Walker thing blew up, Poch signaled to young talent out there that it WAS possible to come in and make it yours by effectively not letting Walker hold the keys and instead promoting Trippier.

There are a couple of deals which have always intrigued me (rumored I should say). DeLigt was one of them, Sancho another. Both were players we very actively wanted, and for whatever reason did not happen (in Sancho's case the rumour was Emirates Marketing Project would not sell to us) but given the remit Pochettino had, the stadium build, the financial situation and all of that, we needed to move players out that he wanted to bring the sort of young talent in he could work with IMO.

I think the only utter disaster was Janssen, and I am not entirely convinced that Poch could not have done more there - it feels like there was a clash early on and he would not let go, but I don't know the story at all.

The saddest thing is that by the time Levy half did what Poch wanted, the fractures were too great, thus 100 mill of talent only for him to be out three months later...

We massively massively roostered up with sancho
We could have got that done as they needed walker

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You could be right but Levy has said that Jose is one of the two top class coaches in the league. If you can’t get success with who you deem to be the best and you’ve tried other approaches with a similar lack of (trophy) success, eventually you’ve got to look in the mirror.

I wish people would stop putting value on the things people say when there is clearly a loaded reason why they would say that. Theyre not being candid and as such should never be used to support your own point.