I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[Jordinho]

Re: Official - Lamela

what? the club spends 30 mill on a player without being sure if they already rate him ???

mind blown

No, where they see him at this moment in time compared to other players competing for the same positions in the team.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's flogged off in January and tbh it's better for his career if he leaves. He'll rarely get a chance and when he does he'll be restricted to what he can and cannot do due to our squad philosophy of playing things simple and not to being able to express yourself.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Official - Lamela

yeah thats shifting the scenario slightly...so if he wasnt getting games then you would be okay with him going to galatasaray?

look from his perspective, how does he know or you for that matter that he will get ENOUGH game time?

The first one was hypothetical. It will vary from player to player what the best option is. In this specific case I think he should stay as he is so close to becoming a starter.

I don't think sending anyone to Turkey on loan is useful unless it's someone we want to get rid of. Different language, different culture, different playing styles etc.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Official - Lamela

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's flogged off in January and tbh it's better for his career if he leaves. He'll rarely get a chance and when he does he'll be restricted to what he can and cannot do due to our squad philosophy of playing things simple and not to being able to express yourself.

What makes you think that?

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Official - Lamela

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's flogged off in January and tbh it's better for his career if he leaves. He'll rarely get a chance and when he does he'll be restricted to what he can and cannot do due to our squad philosophy of playing things simple and not to being able to express yourself.

from a financial stand point i dont think he will move at all this year...we will try to get our money back

infact i think he will be starting by the feb

but he could very well be shackled in playing style. whatever that is to be honest

the sherriff game doesnt tell me much other than he can turn it on against a certain level of opposition, consistency and tougher levels of contest should tell us what his competency is in the league right now

he needs to get more game time but necessarily as a starter, and definately not in the middle controlling everything

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

might seem strange to you but its pretty much economics, supply and demand. i can agree that a players value is what the bidder is willing to pay but then that makes it a buyers market, they set the price by how far they are willing to go...are we wiling to supply and how great is their demand etc

the market has its own price range though, essentially ALL markets in the world do. i dont know why thats strange to you

but anyway...we bought him at the height of speculation on his abilities for 30 million, as a premier league club with capital (and therefore overcharged)...he is not worth that now if someone was to try and purchase him....his value would have depreciated by now

some outlier of a bidder cant only distort the market value, like say PSG or Madrid or City, and there by perhaps start a trend of taking the market overall in a different direction

am scratching my head a bit as to why that seems strange?

by the way i think we now live in sellers market at the top end of transfers. they seem to control more and more of how the deals go through

I find it strange to talk about supply and demand and a market when we're potentially talking about a single or at most a handful of clubs and a single or a handful of potential players. It's like the Bale move, was his market value what we sold him for? Was there a market? There was a single club willing to pay what we were asking, if they hadn't been that offer wouldn't have been there and most likely neither would an offer anywhere close to that figure have been.

Yes you can talk about it as a market and yes you can talk about it as supply and demand, but I don't think that's a good description for such specific situations. What has been gained by renaming "are we willing to sell for that price" to "are we willing to supply" and "are they willing to pay what we ask" to "how great is their demand"? In real world economics with a several suppliers of a similar product, a large customer group supply and demand makes sense to me, it's informative. For this, I don't see it.

yeah thats shifting the scenario slightly...so if he wasnt getting games then you would be okay with him going to galatasaray?

look from his perspective, how does he know or you for that matter that he will get ENOUGH game time?

He has proven himself for Roma in the Serie A, what benefit would he get from playing in the Turkish league (and possibly a couple of CL games)? How will this prepare him for life at Spurs in the Premier League any more than his time in the Serie A?

No one can know what the future will bring with certainty. But I'm willing to guess that our record signing will get time on the pitch for us. Seems like a decent default position to take. I'm also guessing that Baldini knew a thing or two about how good Lamela is before deciding that we should pay a boatload of money for him. Of course I can't know this with certainty, but it seems like a decent assumption to me.

 

[Stenno]

Re: Official - Lamela

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's flogged off in January and tbh it's better for his career if he leaves. He'll rarely get a chance and when he does he'll be restricted to what he can and cannot do due to our squad philosophy of playing things simple and not to being able to express yourself.

:ross: oh dear GHod, you are the gift that keeps on giving

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

What makes you think that?

Our coach clearly doesn't rate him much and personally i think it's more to it then AVB simply being patient and bedding him in slowly. I do not know any manager in world football that would have not started a 30m signing that just had a motm performance the game before, scored and assisted a goal, and suddenly gets demoted back to bench duties....and instead he starts a player that also played that game AND WAS ****E. I tend to look at situations closely and analyse the evidence:

* Lloris was allowed time to settle BUT AVB still let him start a league game to get him accustomed to the fast paced nature of the league. He did that because he was planning ahead and he eventually knew Llloris would start so the start in the league early would be beneficial.

* AVB has no problems starting new signings as he has with the other 6 players we've signed.


I mean it's clear he's not even thinking about Lamela let alone planning ahead. He'll continue rotating between the 2 ineffective players that are currently vying for that AM spot and if one is injured he'll simply switch formations. It's one thing not allowing Lamela the chance to prove himself in the league but when it's clear he's not even thinking about his role in the future then i'm afraid the situation is very bleak.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

:ross: oh dear GHod, you are the gift that keeps on giving

Who are you? are you from Manchester by any chance?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

from a financial stand point i dont think he will move at all this year...we will try to get our money back

infact i think he will be starting by the feb

but he could very well be shackled in playing style. whatever that is to be honest

the sherriff game doesnt tell me much other than he can turn it on against a certain level of opposition, consistency and tougher levels of contest should tell us what his competency is in the league right now

he needs to get more game time but necessarily as a starter, and definately not in the middle controlling everything

What are our alternatives when it comes to players playing in the middle and "controlling everything"? Eriksen? he's done nothing since his first 2 games. Holtby? good player but the guy doesn't have much positional sense and goes roaming (usually away from the opposition goal) to find the ball leaving the striker isolated (even more then he currently is).

 

[Stenno]

Re: Official - Lamela

Who are you? are you from Manchester by any chance?

You genuinely believe we will sell one of the brightest prospects in world football after half a season and a handful of matches? You can't really believe 90% of the tripe you come out with..

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

Our coach clearly doesn't rate him much and personally i think it's more to it then AVB simply being patient and bedding him in slowly. I do not know any manager in world football that would have not started a 30m signing that just had a motm performance the game before, scored and assisted a goal, and suddenly gets demoted back to bench duties....and instead he starts a player that also played that game AND WAS ****E. I tend to look at situations closely and analyse the evidence:

* Lloris was allowed time to settle BUT AVB still let him start a league game to get him accustomed to the fast paced nature of the league. He did that because he was planning ahead and he eventually knew Llloris would start so the start in the league early would be beneficial.

* AVB has no problems starting new signings as he has with the other 6 players we've signed.


I mean it's clear he's not even thinking about Lamela let alone planning ahead. He'll continue rotating between the 2 ineffective players that are currently vying for that AM spot and if one is injured he'll simply switch formations. It's one thing not allowing Lamela the chance to prove himself in the league but when it's clear he's not even thinking about his role in the future then i'm afraid the situation is very bleak.

Such certainty about how AVB thinks and why he does what he does...

Will you be surprised if Lamela ends up being a regular starter this season? Will you rethink your certainty and the validity of your detailed analysis?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

You genuinely believe we will sell one of the brightest prospects in world football after half a season and a handful of matches? You can't really believe 90% of the tripe you come out with..

are you from Manchester?

 

[Stenno]

Re: Official - Lamela

are you from Manchester?

I'm not going to tell you where I'm from, because it's none of your damn business.. But I will continue to be bemused by and let you know about every macaronic statement that you come out with, because at the moment it appears you're painfully unaware

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

Such certainty about how AVB thinks and why he does what he does...

Will you be surprised if Lamela ends up being a regular starter this season? Will you rethink your certainty and the validity of your detailed analysis?

Do you know we're all entitled to our own opinions on this site? i mean you do get that right?

Just as a lot claim AVB does this and that for this or that reason when they're defending him......my opinion is he doesn't rate Lamela (hence me saying "personally i think it's more to it then AVB simply being patient"). That's is my opinion and unlike most that blindly defend him and come up with lame excuses at every opportunity, i actually make points and back up my points as to what my reasoning is to think the way i do.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Lamela

I'm not going to tell you where I'm from, because it's none of your damn business.. But I will continue to be bemused by and let you know about every macaronic statement that you come out with, because at the moment it appears you're painfully unaware

Lets just agree to ignore each others posts again Mancunian.

 

[BigL]

Re: Official - Lamela

The idea that we will look to sell Lamela in January is absolutely laughable IMO

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Official - Lamela

He has proven himself for Roma in the Serie A, what benefit would he get from playing in the Turkish league (and possibly a couple of CL games)? How will this prepare him for life at Spurs in the Premier League any more than his time in the Serie A?

No one can know what the future will bring with certainty. But I'm willing to guess that our record signing will get time on the pitch for us. Seems like a decent default position to take. I'm also guessing that Baldini knew a thing or two about how good Lamela is before deciding that we should pay a boatload of money for him. Of course I can't know this with certainty, but it seems like a decent assumption to me.

i dont agree with you or jordinho one bit IF what you are saying is that you would rather someone stay in a country without getting games than go to a lesser league and get game sand keep match sharp.
that was the scenario i was implying for that hypothetical, throwing in a different hypothetical is something else. your hypothetical makes him staying here more worthwhile than leaving but your assumption of him getting game time may be valid but how can he be sure? he was probably sold the spurs project based on a presumption he would have played more by now...who knows. my thought would have been he was going to be drip fed games and minutes from the start till he was ready to start...thats actually gone in the opposite direction

and sometimes players need to get their confidence and game time up any which way possible. sometimes it might involve going to smaller leagues and tearing stuff up a changed and comeing back with a whole new mindset

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Official - Lamela

what the hell is going around here, we've got a thread about getting rid of a manager in his second season mid overhaul and now people are suggesting we get rid of a kid from another continent signed from a different league because he isn't the best player in the world 3 months later

when did everyone go mad, these things take time

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Official - Lamela

I find it strange to talk about supply and demand and a market when we're potentially talking about a single or at most a handful of clubs and a single or a handful of potential players. It's like the Bale move, was his market value what we sold him for? Was there a market? There was a single club willing to pay what we were asking, if they hadn't been that offer wouldn't have been there and most likely neither would an offer anywhere close to that figure have been.

Yes you can talk about it as a market and yes you can talk about it as supply and demand, but I don't think that's a good description for such specific situations. What has been gained by renaming "are we willing to sell for that price" to "are we willing to supply" and "are they willing to pay what we ask" to "how great is their demand"? In real world economics with a several suppliers of a similar product, a large customer group supply and demand makes sense to me, it's informative. For this, I don't see it.

its still a market and there is still a market value and there is a still a market trend. Bale's price distorts it when basing it on football qualities alone. but i would imagine that as a brand something ridiculously high was about right in todays market....not 86 milllion though. but you know what, i would say that bale had a market value and madrid needed to exceed that significantly for us to sell...because of what he had actually done

one thing i will say though, i dont think there was a market at that price...had real madrid not gotten involved there would have been at a different price

lamela's market value? i wouldnt have a chance of speculation cause i dont even know what he is about in a poor italian league......but i do know that whatever his valuation was is not that now...and he hasnt done much for us so speculation on his ability is at an all time low. he is worth less now then he was when we bought him in asset terms.