I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[Modric THFC]

Re: Official - Lamela

John Champion was an absolute disgrace in Weds. Horrid commentary.

He also mentioned the crowd being edgy whilst you could hear the 1882 singing their hearts out in the background.
Its like he's decided what do say before the game (crowd ****e, lamela ****e) and doesnt react to the actual game.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

I remember him using space very well when he dribbled that game, taking on multiple men and getting out the other side. He also looked very intelligent in his use of the ball. Don't know how it wasn't a strength of his (but I don't have access to the the Great Book of Football Facts like you ;-) considering the times he would blow defenders away through sheer pace, knock the ball the perfect distance away from them and him and burn them up. I didn't mean use space as being good in tight spaces, I meant when he had space in front of him he would make the complete most of it. Fair enough if you didn't see anything very special there, I'm sure a lot of people did.

The 20 game losing streak didn't have much to do with him (not aiming this at you BC), when things were really falling apart (I think under Ramos) he had a handful of poor games at LB. A game away at Fulham stands out as very bad. Generally though he always looked like a top player and I think that was reflected in this forum. I really can't remember that many (or maybe any) people wanting to sell him. Certainly not anywhere near as many as you would think given the amount of times it is used to justify giving a player time. It just makes a good story, the papers like saying we almost sold him to someone ****, can't remember who. Did we really?

We have completely different definitions of awareness of space. To me at least, if a pacy winger isn't capable of seeing that there's space behind a full back and using that space then he shouldn't be a footballer, never mind a winger. To me Bale developed markedly as he progressed, even after his Inter "breakthrough" he was often marked out of games by teams double teaming him. As he developed he became much better at finding space, including him being able to move inside more permanently. Even still though I don't see awareness of space as a strength of his. Several of the players we have in our squad are considerably better at this than Bale was even last season imo. That's obviously not to say that he didn't have something special, just that what I thought was special about him was something else.

I remember the situation differently. Perhaps there weren't a ton of people explicitly saying that we should sell him, but I think there was a general "I don't care if he leaves or stays" kind of attitude. I don't know how close we were to selling him.

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Official - Lamela

We don't have the benefit of seeing what goes on in training - there could be all sorts of stuff going on which makes starting Townsend the better choice right now - Bottom line is we have to get results and the manager has to juggle that with bedding in several new faces - i can't imagine it's an easy task.

We have options in the attacking midfield/wing positions - would be crazy not to use them, judging by the quotes in The Standard yesterday Lamela himself seems to understand (and agree?) the decision - not so sure there's much to grumble about really

Lamela looked pretty good on Wednseday - We have not been scoring enough goals, Townsend has not been producing goals or assists.

Put these three facts together and IMO AVB has not utilised the Lamela well enough.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Lamela

He did look good on Wednesday, whether that alone is enough to warrant an inclusion in the starting line up in the next game i am not so sure.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Official - Lamela

Lamela looked pretty good on Wednseday - We have not been scoring enough goals, Townsend has not been producing goals or assists.

Put these three facts together and IMO AVB has not utilised the Lamela well enough.

Not really facts.. Townsend has been producing chances, is it his fault that other players have not been finishing them?

 

[DHSF]

Re: Official - Lamela

Not really facts.. Townsend has been producing chances, is it his fault that other players have not been finishing them?

The funny thing is thats the same reasoning that people use to beat Lennon up with. Assists is a horrible statistic as far as im concerned.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Lamela

i'm gonna bite on this one cause i called people acolytes

nah, you get labelled acolytes when you go for people that say something you dont like against your favourite...(like me..am a Ledley king acolyte), brandishing pitch forks and stuff.... like acolytes do. not that you are an acolyte even though i called you one wrongly. i apologise..i genuinely hate arguing with internet buddies on here....and its a recent thing, never used to be like that

cheers and for what it's worth i apologize also too many petty arguments lately

if all you are asking for is a little patience thats not crazy or daft at all, be nice if you could put a measure on what 'a little patience' is though...how long is that exactly?

that's genuinely been my outlook for the past season and a bit - it's tough to pick out length in time which we should be patient for...i think a season was a fair amount of time to give the manager initially to see if he was capable - not by saying he needs to achieve x,y and z but more to see if he's on the right track, which personally i thought he showed for sure - we grew as the season went on and after the initial couple of months we were quite consistent.

i guess the frustrating thing this summer was that we kind of undone the work of last season by changing so much - again i think a season is a fair amount of time to give the manager to gel the players and find the correct tactics/starting XI and what not - had we not changed so much (and kept Bale for example) then id have been expecting to see us push on more and been more critical maybe

with regards to Lamela, as this is the reason we're having this discussion i guess, i really don't know - i didn't really expect to see him struggle how he has - what with him being a starter for a similar level side to ourselves in a somewhat strong league i had assumed he'd be able to slot right in BUT seeings as it has become clear that he is struggling to adapt to the move then it's kind of a wait and see how things develop situation - If he was playing each game looking poor and we didn't have the mental aspect of the switch effecting him then id be more inclined to worry - but seeings as all parties have commented on him struggling to adapt then i think we just have to give the lad time - i was encouraged by his quotes the other day - he sounded confident in his self, which should go a long way to speed up the process. i guess the fact we aren't relying on him as much now that we have good cover in the squad just makes me happy enough to sit back and afford him whatever time he needs. guess that might be a bit of a cop out that answer
[/QUOTE]

but the word apologists though does adequately describe what i feel people that overhype him are doing. everyone claiming that he will be great , just patience...it started for me around the same time i said i couldnt see the 30 million pound seperator...a bit prematurely granted...and then arguing over whether a ball down an OPEN chanel was a sublime pass or not

i think when you excuse everything and overhype everthing else that gets done positive..then you are overhyping...basically a fan

apologists to me means someone who always makes excuses for someone that they are a fan of and are unable to criticize - i guess some would say that's me and my stance with AVB but then id say im just being fair and giving him time

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Official - Lamela

The funny thing is thats the same reasoning that people use to beat Lennon up with. Assists is a horrible statistic as far as im concerned.

Not sure why assists is such a horrible stat. Over a couple of games it could be misleading, but not over a sustained period .

Arsenals' wide players have more assists , Arsenal have more goals and more points. Same as last year.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Official - Lamela

Not sure why assists is such a horrible stat. Over a couple of games it could be misleading, but not over a sustained period .

Arsenals' wide players have more assists , Arsenal have more goals and more points. Same as last year.

Because of at least two scenarios

- The midfielder example, midfielder (ala Modric) -> wide player/deep striker -> striker -> goal. The person getting the assist might not be the real creator
- The example I believe the other poster was on, team play -> wide to winger -> into box in right areas -> no one makes run, no goal. Doesn't say the winger was poor.

You Scum examples give you away time and time again.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Official - Lamela

Because of at least two scenarios

- The midfielder example, midfielder (ala Modric) -> wide player/deep striker -> striker -> goal. The person getting the assist might not be the real creator
- The example I believe the other poster was on, team play -> wide to winger -> into box in right areas -> no one makes run, no goal. Doesn't say the winger was poor.

You Scum examples give you away time and time again.

Im not a fan of american sports or how they speak though i do love the American go getting attitude. But i remember hearing an american commentator saying one time about second assists and modric and it struck a chord with me. Modric was the king of the second assist.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: Official - Lamela

On Lamela im sure he will be fine he looks like he has a great first touch and skill, reminds me of berbatov in his prime, who i was a huge fan of. Im sure we will see the best of him towards the end of the season and next year.

How good any of our players will look when we play such a defensive midfield i do not know but the lad will show he is good enough. Looks to me like the most important thing for avb is defending so i guess Lamela is learning that first then we will see his attacking instincts later.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

Not sure why assists is such a horrible stat. Over a couple of games it could be misleading, but not over a sustained period .

Arsenals' wide players have more assists , Arsenal have more goals and more points. Same as last year.

What do you consider a sustained period? How many games?

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Official - Lamela

What do you consider a sustained period? How many games?

Exactly nine.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

Exactly nine.

:ross:

 

[DHSF]

Re: Official - Lamela

Not sure why assists is such a horrible stat. Over a couple of games it could be misleading, but not over a sustained period .

Arsenals' wide players have more assists , Arsenal have more goals and more points. Same as last year.

Mate of course it is. A player can create hundreds of opportunities but if theyre not converted - how can we say that assists is a reliable statistic.

You can argue that 'chances' is a much more reliable statistic but then what is the criteria by which you count a chance a chance. This is why I hate statistics personally - numerous factors and variables have to be taken into account.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

Mate of course it is. A player can create hundreds of opportunities but if theyre not converted - how can we say that assists is a reliable statistic.

You can argue that 'chances' is a much more reliable statistic but then what is the criteria by which you count a chance a chance. This is why I hate statistics personally - numerous factors and variables have to be taken into account.

Most statistics are influenced by numerous factors and variables, both in football and in the rest of life/statistics.

That's why sample size becomes important, and why looking at statistics in isolation is generally a bad idea. It doesn't make statistics worthless though.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Official - Lamela

Most statistics are influenced by numerous factors and variables, both in football and in the rest of life/statistics.

That's why sample size becomes important, and why looking at statistics in isolation is generally a bad idea. It doesn't make statistics worthless though.

Yeah I understand that, I am an Auditor after all, but if you are a winger and have a five footer up front as a striker for a 150 games - you wont be creating that much and we can appreciate that 150 games is a large sample. Lennon playing as an out and out winger for example and putting in crosses to the likes of Defoe - you can conclude that Lennon will hardly provide assists.

 

[Spurs7891]

Re: Official - Lamela

Lamela badly needs a goal to boost his confidence. Too bad he missed the penalty against Hull. But the fact he came forward as the 4th penalty taker shows he got some guts. Remember the likes of Paulinho and Dembele were not among the first 5 penalty takers. Hope this positive attitute will help Lamela settle in at Spurs.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Official - Lamela

Yeah I understand that, I am an Auditor after all, but if you are a winger and have a five footer up front as a striker for a 150 games - you wont be creating that much and we can appreciate that 150 games is a large sample. Lennon playing as an out and out winger for example and putting in crosses to the likes of Defoe - you can conclude that Lennon will hardly provide assists.

In that case the stats will tell you that Lennon has a very low accuracy percentage on his crosses. It's up to each of us how we interpret that. Is Lennon a **** crosser or is there nobody there to meet his crosses? Or maybe a bit of both?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

Yeah I understand that, I am an Auditor after all, but if you are a winger and have a five footer up front as a striker for a 150 games - you wont be creating that much and we can appreciate that 150 games is a large sample. Lennon playing as an out and out winger for example and putting in crosses to the likes of Defoe - you can conclude that Lennon will hardly provide assists.

I think that has to be seen in the context of how many assists out and out wingers generally get.

I don't think Lennon's numbers are all that bad in that context, particularly if set piece assists are taken away.