Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Good post
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Harry Winks
- Thread starter elltrev
- Start date
Bishop
John Lacy
Well...that's rather damning isn't it. [emoji31]
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Watching Winks 'compete' for headers is laughable. I appreciate he isn't that tall, his heading won't be his strong point, and he doesn't necessarily need to compete for all, but he should at least compete for some - it is quite predictable that when the ball in the air, he won't even challenge/jump and just wave his arms about.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Will be fine if we move to a midfield three.
In a two, with Hojbjerg, both playing several full games in quick succession. Not good. We already knew that though.
In a two, with Hojbjerg, both playing several full games in quick succession. Not good. We already knew that though.
Bishop
John Lacy
He's never fine. He's not good enough, the definition of mediocre and sure if we want to be mediocre then pick Winks every week in a three or a two or whatever.
We need to get our midfield quality back up to the point where this is no legitimate use for him. Once we get back to that level then we will have started to look like a competent side once again.
He isn't awful usually but he isn't a quality option either and we need quality. People forget he was a key part in the gruesome twosome that was a horror story centre midfield pairing of Winks and Sissoko. We finally got rid of Sissoko but Winks is still playing games from the start far to regularly. What do you expect to happen? [emoji31]
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braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Big difference anchoring a three man midfield compared to being one of two like he's been recently. One suits him, one doesn't.
May never be quite good enough anyway, but as an option for that role I think he's fine.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
As pointed out elsewhere I think he seems to have a bit of chip on his shoulder, when he was out the side he was moaning and never really showed the manager why he should be in the first 11.
I would move him on.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
For a rather long time he got very few chances to actually show why he should be in the team. Not because he didn't get minutes, but because there wasn't a natural place for him in the team due to our style of play and requirements in midfield.
He shown this season that he can be an asset. In a midfield two next to a tiring Hojbjerg, behind a front three running on fumes is not his role at all. Even more so when he himself has played a lot in quick succession. More or less perfectly highlights his weaknesses.
If he was frustrated I can understand that. He's stepped up at times under Conte and rightly gotten praise from Conte.
Several things will have to go his way for him to be a good option next season imo. Selling him may end up the best solution for everyone. But if we move more towards a midfield three I think he's at the very least a decent option if he sticks around. He looks fourth in the pecking order for central midfield, the obvious first one out of replacements are signed.
For this season much depends on if we play a midfield three or not. Perhaps some games in a two next to Bentancur or Skipp (both more athletic). But mostly for him to succeed it needs to be a midfield three I think. If a change like that is preferable overall is a different question.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
We won’t move to a 3
The issue yesterday was him and Hojberg were up against a 3 man midfield and neither player looked like they had the legs for the game.
It’s exactly the same as when we played Southampton when he came in fresh I believe but Hojberg was knackered
People think contes team expect the most from the WBs… I’d agree in his Italian set up 3-5-2. But in England he has played 3-4-3 and at Chelsea he had kante and no midweek fixtures when he won the league
If winks and Hojberg start vs Everton and we’re not letting them get outnumbered in midfield they will be fine again
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braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I'm guessing the formation has less to do with which league and more to do with the players he has available?
Will be interesting to see how we approach things when we have more options in midfield again. Some reasons for a midfield three, but definitely also reasons for a front three.
Agreed with the rest.
Winks is lacking in physical attributes, runs quite a bit, but not quick or dynamic. Far from great one vs one defensively with space around him. Ask him to cover a lot of space and he will struggle.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I honestly don’t know
He has always played 3-4-3 here and 3-5-2 in Italy
But it could be because of who he has available
papaspur
Kasey Keller
Lucas Moura is shorter and is way more effective at winning headers, it's all about actually putting in the effort and being tenacious.
Winks seemed to play some decent passes at some points (ie., some slick, one-touch forward passes) but then there's too many safe balls back/sideways. Not sure PEH next to him makes the job any easier either, but for what Winks brings to the table, it's just not enough at times.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Lucas has outstanding physical qualities including a leap that very few players can match.
Play Winks in a role that highlights that quality on the ball and minimises his physical shortcomings and he'll be fine. Perhaps still not good enough, but much better than what we saw yesterday.
Bishop
John Lacy
His "quality on the ball" isn't high enough to compensate for the rest of his game. He'd have to be Xaviesque to make up for his deficiencies. He's played some good to decent passes recently but it's still not enough imo. He's just the definition of mediocre.
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Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
If we assume that Bentacur is good enough to be a first choice midfield player for us then we're looking for one more addition in the summer to find his partner. I think Skipp and Hojbjerg are both good enough to be back up players (and Skipp could develop further from there) that leaves Winks as clearly 5th choice and that's before considering Sarr (who I think we might let out on loan again). Personally I'd like us to sign two central midfield players this summer, one being a deeper player able to play in a pivot (Brozovic would be perfect, or alternatively perhaps Kamara) and one being a creative player that would probably be more useful in a midfield 3 (a player like Soler or Isco). Winks I think should be moved on for the sake of both the club and the player.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
He's a good player in the right setup. But perhaps not quite good enough to warrant a change of system to accommodate him. Also someone that could be upgraded on.
If he sticks around he'll do a good job if the system is right for him. I don't think he's mediocre as such.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Mostly agreed.
There are some plausible outcomes where he's a useful player imo, but all fairly unlikely.
I won't be disappointed if he stays as long as we strengthen our options. Won't be disappointed if he leaves either I think.
lurker of old
Gus Poyet
All the physical presence of a hologram.
However crap Spurs are, I can rely on someone on this message board making me chuckle.
However crap Spurs are, I can rely on someone on this message board making me chuckle.