• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Harry Winks

SubZero said:
I think the biggest problem with Winks is that we are asking him to be something he's not. He is not a creator. He is not a breakup player. He recycles well and keeps the ball within the team, but he isn't a player that makes things happen and is too often the equivalent of sitting on the ball. Still this isn't Winks' fault in any way, he's a good allround player at a level where there's little need for good allround players anymore.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Also, while he's not a breakup player he's positionally sound and disciplined. But he's often been asked to play in a midfield two with a lot of space to cover, that's definitely not his strength. Leaves him, and us, exposed.

At the moment not the fault of anyone, Winks or the manager. The role he's suited to doesn't exist in our current system.
 
Sorry but I completely disagree with the idea Winks is a good all round player.

Imagine a scenario of 22 Harry Winkses playing a game of football. Harry Winks dropping a shoulder and whipping in a delicious arching left footed dipping cross to Harry Winks who gets ahead of Harry Winks to flash in a volley that is blocked on the line in a brave last ditch effort by Harry Winks.

Hard to picture isn’t it.

Now imagine 22 Harry Kanes or Didier Drogbas - proper all rounders.
 
johnola said:
Sorry but I completely disagree with the idea Winks is a good all round player.

Imagine a scenario of 22 Harry Winkses playing a game of football. Harry Winks dropping a shoulder and whipping in a delicious arching left footed dipping cross to Harry Winks who gets ahead of Harry Winks to flash in a volley that is blocked on the line in a brave last ditch effort by Harry Winks.

Hard to picture isn’t it.

Now imagine 22 Harry Kanes or Didier Drogbas - proper all rounders.
Click to expand...

At what level do you measure good though? If he was over hackney marshes he'd be miles better than anyone on the pitch.

He's a lower level premier league player. Which is good compared to most players. Comparing him to kane is silly.

Does it mesn he's good enough for what we need? No. But it doesn't make him brick.
 
johnola said:
Sorry but I completely disagree with the idea Winks is a good all round player.

Imagine a scenario of 22 Harry Winkses playing a game of football. Harry Winks dropping a shoulder and whipping in a delicious arching left footed dipping cross to Harry Winks who gets ahead of Harry Winks to flash in a volley that is blocked on the line in a brave last ditch effort by Harry Winks.

Hard to picture isn’t it.

Now imagine 22 Harry Kanes or Didier Drogbas - proper all rounders.
Click to expand...

My point at least, and I think to an extent at least SZ also, is that Winks isn't a very good all round player. Ignoring the top level examples, say our other midfield options now - good at a wide range of things, excellent at a few, very few glaring weaknesses. Makes them versatile, may not be good enough to play at the very elite clubs (yet at least), but can play on different systems and even different roles at a fairly high level.

Winks, because of his limitations, needs the right role in the right system. Then I believe he can be a very good player, probably not elite, but very good. We don't have that role or system now.
 
johnola said:
Sorry but I completely disagree with the idea Winks is a good all round player.

Imagine a scenario of 22 Harry Winkses playing a game of football. Harry Winks dropping a shoulder and whipping in a delicious arching left footed dipping cross to Harry Winks who gets ahead of Harry Winks to flash in a volley that is blocked on the line in a brave last ditch effort by Harry Winks.

Hard to picture isn’t it.

Now imagine 22 Harry Kanes or Didier Drogbas - proper all rounders.
Click to expand...
Well, he IS a good allround player. And he's not a poor passer per se, but he has poor awareness and overview, compared to what we need from that position. Him spotting a run 20 yards away is not skill, it's luck. You rarely if ever say "how on earth did he see that" after a Winks pass, as we did week in and week out with Eriksen and Modric. And he needs to drop what he learned at the Scott Parker school of spinning, I swear he does it out of spite at times. Still he would comfortably slot in with most mid- to bottom table teams in the highly competitive English Premier League, which is as good as it gets, really. But he's not good enough for a team aiming for top 4, as you'll need to be excellent at something. Being just a good footballer won't get you to the top. Even Harry Kane, when he started going walkabout, hurt the productivity at first, and if we hadn't had a player like Son to switch, who knows. And Kane is not a good allrounder, he's one of the world's best allrounders so that's a little unfair towards Winks even if not meant that way.

20 years ago we would be delighted to have a midfielder like Winks, as would most teams. Hell, 20 years ago we would be delighted to have Jena.. sorry, Sissoko. Today he's surplus to requirements unfortunately.
 
SubZero said:
Well, he IS a good allround player. And he's not a poor passer per se, but he has poor awareness and overview, compared to what we need from that position. Him spotting a run 20 yards away is not skill, it's luck. You rarely if ever say "how on earth did he see that" after a Winks pass, as we did week in and week out with Eriksen and Modric. And he needs to drop what he learned at the Scott Parker school of spinning, I swear he does it out of spite at times. Still he would comfortably slot in with most mid- to bottom table teams in the highly competitive English Premier League, which is as good as it gets, really. But he's not good enough for a team aiming for top 4, as you'll need to be excellent at something. Being just a good footballer won't get you to the top. Even Harry Kane, when he started going walkabout, hurt the productivity at first, and if we hadn't had a player like Son to switch, who knows. And Kane is not a good allrounder, he's one of the world's best allrounders so that's a little unfair towards Winks even if not meant that way.

20 years ago we would be delighted to have a midfielder like Winks, as would most teams. Hell, 20 years ago we would be delighted to have Jena.. sorry, Sissoko. Today he's surplus to requirements unfortunately.
Click to expand...

The stats disagree. He is in the top 2% of midfielders in the top 5 leaguesfor progressive passes. His shot creating actions is less but in the top 3rd.

https://fbref.com/en/players/2f7acede/Harry-Winks
 
Lilbaz said:
The stats disagree. He is in the top 2% of midfielders in the top 5 leaguesfor progressive passes. His shot creating actions is less but in the top 3rd.

https://fbref.com/en/players/2f7acede/Harry-Winks
Click to expand...

Fair points well made, sadly most teams have fans who just have to slag certain players as being rubbish and our fans are no difference. Lets be honest we have seen both Dier and Davies called rotten on here by some over the last couple of years but have mostly been shown to be wrong on all points. Like i say its a fan thing and it happens at most teams.
 
parklane1 said:
Fair points well made, sadly most teams have fans who just have to slag certain players as being rubbish and our fans are no difference. Lets be honest we have seen both Dier and Davies called rotten on here by some over the last couple of years but have mostly been shown to be wrong on all points. Like i say its a fan thing and it happens at most teams.
Click to expand...
Yep
And those players get tarnished with things even if they are not true
An opinion is always the issue
 
parklane1 said:
Fair points well made, sadly most teams have fans who just have to slag certain players as being rubbish and our fans are no difference. Lets be honest we have seen both Dier and Davies called rotten on here by some over the last couple of years but have mostly been shown to be wrong on all points. Like i say its a fan thing and it happens at most teams.
Click to expand...

Yep. Either players are great or brick. Nothing in between. I don't think winks is what we need going forward, but he'd still do a decent job for most premier league teams.
 
NorwegianSpursFan said:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ks-everton-interested-in-tottenham-midfielder

Maybe there’s a deal to be made for richarlison.
Click to expand...

It seems likely

- Everton need players (that squad is trash) and they have issues with FFP
- We want Richarlison
- Seems they want Winks
- Conversation is we want to bring Bergwijn replacement in before he leaves
- Ajax rumours are saying July 1st for announcing Bergwijn

Could be -> Winks to Everton, Richarlison to us, Bergwijn to Ajax with Winks & Bergwijn providing about £40M of Richarlison's cost.
 
Raziel said:
It seems likely

- Everton need players (that squad is trash) and they have issues with FFP
- We want Richarlison
- Seems they want Winks
- Conversation is we want to bring Bergwijn replacement in before he leaves
- Ajax rumours are saying July 1st for announcing Bergwijn

Could be -> Winks to Everton, Richarlison to us, Bergwijn to Ajax with Winks & Bergwijn providing about £40M of Richarlison's cost.
Click to expand...
I'd like Gordon.
Think he'd suit Conte as well
 
Dele and now Winks, if they sign Royal Lampard could emulate his uncle Harry's triple deal of Davis, Mendes and Pamarot!
 
Raziel said:
It seems likely

- Everton need players (that squad is trash) and they have issues with FFP
- We want Richarlison
- Seems they want Winks
- Conversation is we want to bring Bergwijn replacement in before he leaves
- Ajax rumours are saying July 1st for announcing Bergwijn

Could be -> Winks to Everton, Richarlison to us, Bergwijn to Ajax with Winks & Bergwijn providing about £40M of Richarlison's cost.
Click to expand...

That would be a very good outcome for us. Maybe all 3 clubs and players too. Although I don't think Winks will be enough to keep Everton up, unless the get Dyche in pre-Christmas.
 
Gutter Boy said:
That would be a very good outcome for us. Maybe all 3 clubs and players too. Although I don't think Winks will be enough to keep Everton up, unless the get Dyche in pre-Christmas.
Click to expand...

Depends (agree with your assessment that Frank needs to go), survival in the PL is often not how bad you are, but are there 3 worse teams than you?

Winks in a midfield 3, with Dele (had really good game for them 2nd to last that saved them) running off DCL wouldn't be the worst idea you could come up with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back