Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[Modric THFC]

Exactly. You made my point for me. He WASNT a Rednapp inspired buy. Therefore Rednapp cant take the credit for his aquisition.

All Levy did was answer a phone and pass a message on to Redknapp. Redknapp identified him as a target in the first place.

 

[billyiddo]

Oh ffs. Do we have to clear this up for the millionth time. We went in him week before the deal. Real pulled out. Then on the final day Real phone LEvy up ask do we still want him. Levy phoned Redknapp and asked did he still want him. Redknapp jumped at it.

not saying this didn't happen but do you have a link to the story ?

i remember seeing Redknapp talk about it saying that Bayern were in for him and everyone thought it was a done deal only for it to collapse, Levy to hear about it and then move last minute to get him in. haven't heard Redknapp once say this deal was anything other than Levy offering him the player

 

[mick cooper]

Of course i have and it does need more then talented players, it needs a manager who can compete tactically with the top teams and this is where Redknapp falls down.

I am a poor sod like you (since 63)and have watched the brick like you have, my point is that we are NOT punching above our weight and those that say we are are wrong (imo) at the beginning of the season i expected us to make the top four which is where we are, so in know way will i say we are punching above our weight or in a false position. However after spending a bloody fortune travelling around watching Spurs every year i object to Redknapp having a dig saying i am unrealistic.

As for seeing the wider view i believe i am, we are on the verge of being able to ( for the first time in many years) really challenge for the top, i do not need a manager who is telling me that we can not compete, and is unable to accept that we are a big club and we are so close.

for clarity, although I replied to your post, not all of the points I attempted to address were specifically aimed at you

I would say we are punching above our weight - insofar as the team needs better players and in some cases younger players for long term sustainability.

We don't have an RVP/Rooney to really challenge, and whilst I think we have a set of M/F p[layers that are as good as any unit in the league, we need better defenders, or certainly fitter and more reliable ones to make us a true top 4 (nailed on) side.

As for the age thing, whilst I think that Friedel has been instrumental in our league position, I would like to see a younger back up than Cudicini, who I rate a lot higher than most on here - but would still like to see a younger man pushing Friedel out of the side, rather than waiting for him to die of old age.

As for Redknapp - I believe he still stands as the most successful Spurs manager in the average wins/points tally chart, so condemning him is a bit daft IMO, when we've never had anyone better.

 

[zin]

Don't want to align myself with the anti Redknapp phalanx, but it's tinkled me off from day 1 how Harry's always referred to us as "they", i've never heard any manager talk about their team like that before and I'm sure Harry hasn't said that about previous clubs he's been at.

Going through the pages of this thread and finally found my thoughts in between all the usual irrational posts and actual proper debate.


:ssg:

 

[zin]

That quote about the strongest club outside manchester is not on Sky, BBC, The Independant, Talksport (audio or written article), F365, Teamtalk, ESPN

Has anyone come out and said they made this up yet? Some posters are so irrational in hatred of something they will make things up to put their points across and the problem with forums is you believe everything you read.

 

[zin]

Harry has done well at Spurs but he's never endeared himself to the fans and Jol was always going to be a difficult act to follow when it came to that. If Harry followed George Graham for example we would maybe not care us much as to whether he endears himself or not. Personally I wouldn't care if he left or stayed, I truely believe many managers could do an excellent job with the team we have.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't see the point of divisive threads like these on the eve of an FA cup semi. I know it was started on Monday, but shouldn't we try and be positive at least until we know the outcome of tomorrow's game? I mean by tomorrow night, we could be in the FA cup semi final and still in the top 4!

 

[totman]

Leedspurs
Wriggly
THFC
Arcspace

You are all ****s.

Scara

You run a decent forum, but you support ****s, and spend too much time hasrassing decent posters.

This thread, and this forum has become poisonous.

 

[parklane1]

for clarity, although I replied to your post, not all of the points I attempted to address were specifically aimed at you

I would say we are punching above our weight - insofar as the team needs better players and in some cases younger players for long term sustainability.

We don't have an RVP/Rooney to really challenge, and whilst I think we have a set of M/F p[layers that are as good as any unit in the league, we need better defenders, or certainly fitter and more reliable ones to make us a true top 4 (nailed on) side.

As for the age thing, whilst I think that Friedel has been instrumental in our league position, I would like to see a younger back up than Cudicini, who I rate a lot higher than most on here - but would still like to see a younger man pushing Friedel out of the side, rather than waiting for him to die of old age.

As for Redknapp - I believe he still stands as the most successful Spurs manager in the average wins/points tally chart, so condemning him is a bit daft IMO, when we've never had anyone better.

I agree we need better players if we are to challenge for the top place, but my point is we are not punching above our weight at this present time. Our squad is good enough to be in the top four and as i have said that is where i thought we would be at the beginning of the season.

I am not saying that Redknapp has not done a good job, what i am saying is that ( imo) he does not possess the tactical ability to take up any higher.

My main objection apart from wanting to see a manager who can take us further is the excuses that he always comes out with for not being able to take us further, and his assumptions that the fans should stop being so unrealistic and that we are idiots ( which he has suggested on more then one occasion)

 

[Modric THFC]

Leedspurs
Wriggly
THFC
Arcspace

You are all ****s.

Scara

You run a decent forum, but you support ****s, and spend too much time hasrassing decent posters.

This thread, and this forum has become poisonous.

The url www.the-tottenham-manager-is-infallible.com is available. Good potential for a forum there.

 

[Superted]

Leedspurs
Wriggly
THFC
Arcspace

You are all ****s.

Scara

You run a decent forum, but you support ****s, and spend too much time hasrassing decent posters.

This thread, and this forum has become poisonous.

Nice going Infraction Jackson.

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Leedspurs
Wriggly
THFC
Arcspace

You are all ****s.

Scara

You run a decent forum, but you support ****s, and spend too much time hasrassing decent posters.

This thread, and this forum has become poisonous.

Nice.

Some people want Spurs to be the best. I do. Do you?

 

[thfcsteff]

My biggest worry with Harry has always been Harry...

He HAS done a good job, no denying it, but the very things he's good at are things which (in the last two seasons) he has failed to get done in the Feb-April portion of the season...and that is man-manage and squad rotate properly. These are things he was always very good at, and has been with us, but once again, late winter/early spring has seen it go a bit "tits up"...now, I speculate that it is because Harry has had Harry stuff to deal with, and such Tottenham have not been his 100% focus.

There is little doubt that he is not always tactically ruthless. I think he "knows" what should be done, but sometimes allows sentiment (and the media) to get in the way. Example; we hammer Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0, could've been 8 or 9. Press goes bananas, Harry-Messiah-England, blah blah blah; critically, everyone ignores the fact that Newcash were missing their midfield heart and that Pardew had come out and publicly said the defeat was his fault for taking a 4-4-2 to the Lane with a weakened side. Now, any sane person who has watched/played football longer than a year will know that when going to the Emirates as hot favorites, the one thing you want to do is be patient and be clinical. No need to swashbuckle, just put in the sort of strong way performance with 4-5-1 which has been happening all season. Instead Harry, inexplicably, decides that the same formation/side which smashed a weakened 4-4-2 Newcash at home, is the right approach for the deathstar; I call it sentimentality/naivity.

Again last Monday against Norwich, we go 2-1 down, their defense is wide open, we are making chances, yet Harry panics with 20-25 mins left and decides to take off our holding midfielder, leave Modric basically alone, and has VdV, Ade, Defoe and Bale all attacking as forwards. That is PS3 stuff. With patience and SHAPE, we could have come back and won that game, but by throwing the kitchen sink without rhyme or reason, we ended up lumbering the architect of the side by crowding him out with strikers. It was absurd IMHO.

And right now, at the moment when Harry needs to come to the party, he appears unsure and indecisive. Where's the public bravado and strength?

I have to believe there's stuff going on we don't know about, because honestly, some of his decisions since Feb don't make sense given the experience and previous decent decisions in similar match circumstances he's made.

if he is to manage us for the next few years, these are problems which need to be comprehensively answered IMHO...

 

[elltrev]

My biggest worry with Harry has always been Harry...

He HAS done a good job, no denying it, but the very things he's good at are things which (in the last two seasons) he has failed to get done in the Feb-April portion of the season...and that is man-manage and squad rotate properly. These are things he was always very good at, and has been with us, but once again, late winter/early spring has seen it go a bit "tits up"...now, I speculate that it is because Harry has had Harry stuff to deal with, and such Tottenham have not been his 100% focus.

There is little doubt that he is not always tactically ruthless. I think he "knows" what should be done, but sometimes allows sentiment (and the media) to get in the way. Example; we hammer Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0, could've been 8 or 9. Press goes bananas, Harry-Messiah-England, blah blah blah; critically, everyone ignores the fact that Newcash were missing their midfield heart and that Pardew had come out and publicly said the defeat was his fault for taking a 4-4-2 to the Lane with a weakened side. Now, any sane person who has watched/played football longer than a year will know that when going to the Emirates as hot favorites, the one thing you want to do is be patient and be clinical. No need to swashbuckle, just put in the sort of strong way performance with 4-5-1 which has been happening all season. Instead Harry, inexplicably, decides that the same formation/side which smashed a weakened 4-4-2 Newcash at home, is the right approach for the deathstar; I call it sentimentality/naivity.

Again last Monday against Norwich, we go 2-1 down, their defense is wide open, we are making chances, yet Harry panics with 20-25 mins left and decides to take off our holding midfielder, leave Modric basically alone, and has VdV, Ade, Defoe and Bale all attacking as forwards. That is PS3 stuff. With patience and SHAPE, we could have come back and won that game, but by throwing the kitchen sink without rhyme or reason, we ended up lumbering the architect of the side by crowding him out with strikers. It was absurd IMHO.

And right now, at the moment when Harry needs to come to the party, he appears unsure and indecisive. Where's the public bravado and strength?

I have to believe there's stuff going on we don't know about, because honestly, some of his decisions since Feb don't make sense given the experience and previous decent decisions in similar match circumstances he's made.

if he is to manage us for the next few years, these are problems which need to be comprehensively answered IMHO...

I agree with the Norwich bit; I was annoyed when he made the sub, and he's done similar things before.

But as for 4-4-2 against Arsenal, it was 2-2 at half-time, and neither of their goals were the fault of our formation. Harry brought on Sandro as an extra CM at half-time, then we shipped 3 and scored none. We did not lose 5-2 to Arsenal because of playing 4-4-2.

 

[Pirate55]

My biggest worry with Harry has always been Harry...

He HAS done a good job, no denying it, but the very things he's good at are things which (in the last two seasons) he has failed to get done in the Feb-April portion of the season...and that is man-manage and squad rotate properly. These are things he was always very good at, and has been with us, but once again, late winter/early spring has seen it go a bit "tits up"...now, I speculate that it is because Harry has had Harry stuff to deal with, and such Tottenham have not been his 100% focus.

There is little doubt that he is not always tactically ruthless. I think he "knows" what should be done, but sometimes allows sentiment (and the media) to get in the way. Example; we hammer Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0, could've been 8 or 9. Press goes bananas, Harry-Messiah-England, blah blah blah; critically, everyone ignores the fact that Newcash were missing their midfield heart and that Pardew had come out and publicly said the defeat was his fault for taking a 4-4-2 to the Lane with a weakened side. Now, any sane person who has watched/played football longer than a year will know that when going to the Emirates as hot favorites, the one thing you want to do is be patient and be clinical. No need to swashbuckle, just put in the sort of strong way performance with 4-5-1 which has been happening all season. Instead Harry, inexplicably, decides that the same formation/side which smashed a weakened 4-4-2 Newcash at home, is the right approach for the deathstar; I call it sentimentality/naivity.

Again last Monday against Norwich, we go 2-1 down, their defense is wide open, we are making chances, yet Harry panics with 20-25 mins left and decides to take off our holding midfielder, leave Modric basically alone, and has VdV, Ade, Defoe and Bale all attacking as forwards. That is PS3 stuff. With patience and SHAPE, we could have come back and won that game, but by throwing the kitchen sink without rhyme or reason, we ended up lumbering the architect of the side by crowding him out with strikers. It was absurd IMHO.

And right now, at the moment when Harry needs to come to the party, he appears unsure and indecisive. Where's the public bravado and strength?

I have to believe there's stuff going on we don't know about, because honestly, some of his decisions since Feb don't make sense given the experience and previous decent decisions in similar match circumstances he's made.

if he is to manage us for the next few years, these are problems which need to be comprehensively answered IMHO...

Steff - you are spot on. Harry is sometimes his own worst enemy. But he does have just one too many failings imo. Tactics, Transfers, Dead Balls are key managerial issues and he has failed us on all counts. The legacy he has/will leave from the players he has bought is a lot of old, slow, and inadequate players and a squad with just Defoe and Saha as strikers.

A friend told me (to my surprise) that he had ruined West Ham. He didnt really help Portsmouth or Southampton either - I dont think many of their fans think too highly of him.

His nice guy routine has now fallen flat and he has abused us as fans once too often. I was not always this way, but harry has led me to this conclusion himself.

 

[Leeds Spur]

You feel no grattitude for

Getting us out of the brick with a team at rock bottom playing for relegation
Turning us into a team challenging for European qualification in one season
Getting us into the CL
Getting us playing champagne football that bought praise from around the world
The fact that we have a team that is genuinely a threat and plays great football

Jol touched on the feeling of success, whilst Harry hasn't won any trophies - he has produced a team capable of playing in a way that makes me proud to be a Spurs supporter again.

I'm grateful to the man, but then again I have never tried to convince myself that he's the antichrist

Fair play Mick. Perspective is required.

 

[thfcsteff]

I agree with the Norwich bit; I was annoyed when he made the sub, and he's done similar things before.

But as for 4-4-2 against Arsenal, it was 2-2 at half-time, and neither of their goals were the fault of our formation. Harry brought on Sandro as an extra CM at half-time, then we shipped 3 and scored none. We did not lose 5-2 to Arsenal because of playing 4-4-2.

With great respect I beg to differ...allow me to explain my logic. 4-4-2 working would've required Lennon on the pitch and Saha to drop in/run tirelessly to close down their CBs. Bale and Lennon sticking to their sixes, with their pace, would've kept the fullbacks honest, plus Lennon tracks back very very well these days. Instead, Saha was lazy, Ade wasn't at his best and Niko was an unmitigated disaster, getting done for pace AND unable to affect the game in any way. Bale started going walkies again, we invited them on by letting them bring the ball out, we ended up sitting deeper and deeper after we went a goal up. The second goal was against the run of play; I saw it as a gift. At 2-0 up, everyonecould see we were getting done. An unsentimental manager would've gone 4-5-1 there and then; Harry admitted that at 2-0 up he could see them coming at us over and over.

As the players came out for the second-half, I expected to see 4-5-1 given the subs. I expected Lennon for Niko and Rafa for Saha. Would've been my starting 11 but there we go. I'd have old them it was a new game, all on our terms, told Parker to patrol deep and cover Ledders who was fuked, ordered Lennon n Bale to hug the line and stretch th game, had Rafe in the hole an tonc we'd have denied them space and forced their full-back to be honest. Instead, on comes Sandro and Rafa, we try to match 4-3-3 which is absurd given our strengths and their weaknesses, an w get absolutely ****ed second-half when just doing what we'd done all season to that point would've seen us win. So Imhumbly, but strongly, disagree. It was a tactical faux-pas that actually had me wondering if then game was bent. I have never seen a game so easily winnable thrown away like that.

Footnote thought...cannot remember when the third sub was made, but with Parker on a yellow and diving in, I'd hae hauled him off for Utd...had he played against Urd who knows?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Nice.

Some people want Spurs to be the best. I do. Do you?

Ironically to be the best also means the fans have to be the best, and that means fans not being abusive or making personal attacks towards the Manager. I want us to be the best too....

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Steff - you are spot on. Harry is sometimes his own worst enemy. But he does have just one too many failings imo. Tactics, Transfers, Dead Balls are key managerial issues and he has failed us on all counts. The legacy he has/will leave from the players he has bought is a lot of old, slow, and inadequate players and a squad with just Defoe and Saha as strikers.
A friend told me (to my surprise) that he had ruined West Ham. He didnt really help Portsmouth or Southampton either - I dont think many of their fans think too highly of him.

His nice guy routine has now fallen flat and he has abused us as fans once too often. I was not always this way, but harry has led me to this conclusion himself.

So just so I can get this right. Redknapp has failed us? We're lying 4th in the table and have a massive semi final today and that's failure?

As for the players, buy them at 21, 25 or 30 and most of the time they will only be around for three years. Football Manager has bred a generation of footballing following macarons that believe the bedrock to long term success is to buy kids, kids, kids. Just to have a reality check.......BUYING YOUTH DOESN'T MEAN fudge ALL AND DOESN'T LEAD TO A LONG TERM SUCCESS.

The ideal transfer strategy is one that fills the short term needs of the first XI, thus ensuring a great chance of success in the short term, thus ensuring your club being more attractive to potential players in the next transfer window. There is no realistic long term view in building a squad anymore. The amount the players get paid ended that.

Regarding age. Our team is young. Regarding tactics, we've taken teams apart this year and yet the final ball or finishing has at times been woeful. Is that poor tactics or because they players fall just a little short of being good enough to challenge for the title? I say the latter. The amount of times we get in great crossing positions and Walker and Ekotto fudge them up with crosses that are Sunday league standard is ridiculous. The amount of chances Ade has missed this season is ridiculous.

But if a team is playing well, creating chances but not converting the chances then that demonstrates there is fudge all wrong with the tactic. Same applies to if the defence makes individual mistakes. The failing of the Manager then isn't tactics, it's not replacing players who aren't good enough. E.g. I'd rather us buy a 34 year left back that is good enough than put up with Beniot "I'm ball watching again, am slow to react and have played him onside/lost him for the second ball/lost the man I was marking" Ekotto make the same mistakes game after game.

 

[zin]

So just so I can get this right. Redknapp has failed us? We're lying 4th in the table and have a massive semi final today and that's failure?

As for the players, buy them at 21, 25 or 30 and most of the time they will only be around for three years. Football Manager has bred a generation of footballing following macarons that believe the bedrock to long term success is to buy kids, kids, kids. Just to have a reality check.......BUYING YOUTH DOESN'T MEAN fudge ALL AND DOESN'T LEAD TO A LONG TERM SUCCESS.

The ideal transfer strategy is one that fills the short term needs of the first XI, thus ensuring a great chance of success in the short term, thus ensuring your club being more attractive to potential players in the next transfer window. There is no realistic long term view in building a squad anymore. The amount the players get paid ended that.

Regarding age. Our team is young. Regarding tactics, we've taken teams apart this year and yet the final ball or finishing has at times been woeful. Is that poor tactics or because they players fall just a little short of being good enough to challenge for the title? I say the latter. The amount of times we get in great crossing positions and Walker and Ekotto fudge them up with crosses that are Sunday league standard is ridiculous. The amount of chances Ade has missed this season is ridiculous.

But if a team is playing well, creating chances but not converting the chances then that demonstrates there is fudge all wrong with the tactic. Same applies to if the defence makes individual mistakes. The failing of the Manager then isn't tactics, it's not replacing players who aren't good enough. E.g. I'd rather us buy a 34 year left back that is good enough than put up with Beniot "I'm ball watching again, am slow to react and have played him onside/lost him for the second ball/lost the man I was marking" Ekotto make the same mistakes game after game.

Something tells me you'll be frothing at the mouth if BAE wins player of the year