Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[totman]

Harry was asked and said yes, very probably without having seen them play.

They were signed NINE MONTHS after Harry joined

It was a mistake to send Walker out to Villa last year.

Why? We a reaping the benefits this season.


had Cappelo not spotted him and picked him for England Harry may not have played him for the first game of the season.

Had Harry not loaned him to Villa, Capello would never have spotted him, and picked him for England in the first place ](*,)



Harry likes to sign players he knows and not unknowns. I don't think he has a particullarly good knowledge of European football. His signings have been proven pros like Parker , Keane and Crouch.

:yawn:

Overall I don't think he has been good in the market and think it we had to rely on only his choices of signings, we would not be in as good a state.

Had he not signed Palacios, we would have been in an even worse state. Carry on dismissing all the good signings under his tenure as Levy and (laughably) Comolli...excellent argument

IMO he has been flattered by this.

IMO, people with this view have very selective vision

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I find it both saddening and bemusing that here we are in 4th place and in an FA Cup semi final and yet some of our fans still seem disgruntled, tinkled off and miserable. Some just constantly seem to want to find ways so they don't enjoy this season or the great football we have been playing.

 

[ArcspacE]

Bit early to say that in my opinion. Utd fans have been more than a bit disappointed with him this season. Will be interesting to see if he bounces back.

He scored 20 goals in his debut season and was one of their Top 3 players of the season

This time around he's been injured quite a bit but still looks miles ahead of Welbeck on the field and has still managed 12 goals mostly as a squad player. Considering what they paid for him - any rag complaining about him is a glory-hunting muppet, imv.

 

[braineclipse]

That sentence does not make sense to me

- Are scouts only tracking good players and not bothering with 'potential' ones since chances of them turning good are slim?
- How many were arguably tracking Hernandez for example prior to his move? I doubt many - Utd took a chance on an unknown player who turned out to be a gem

I didn't say that scouts aren't tracking players with potential ability? It's one of their main jobs. What did I say that made you think this?

How many were tracking Hernandez? Very difficult to say.

A quick look at Wikipedia:

-He signed for United in April 2010.
-Hern?índez was one of the 21 players called up to the Mexican under-20 national team for the 2007 FIFA U-20 World Cup in Canada; he wore the number 11 shirt.
-Most European clubs, certainly all big clubs would have had scouts here and would at least have known about him at this point, although they might not have known much about his qualities.

-On 30 September 2009, Hern?índez made his debut for Mexico against Colombia, where he made an assist in a 2–1 loss.[55] On 24 February 2010, Hern?índez scored two goals against Bolivia and had an assist for Braulio Luna's goal. On 3 March, Hern?índez scored a header against New Zealand, giving Mexico the lead in a 2–0 victory.[56] On 17 March, Hern?índez scored his fourth international goal to give Mexico a 2–1 victory over North Korea.[57]
-By now I'm guessing most clubs in Europe would have been aware of him at one level or another. These international games are normally watched by loads of scouts.

There is even a bit on Wiki about how United scouted him before buying him: "Manchester United were first made aware of Hern?índez in October 2009; a scout went to Mexico that December and reported positively after watching a few games. Because of Hern?índez's age, the club originally planned to wait before making a move to sign him, but his potential involvement with the national team at the World Cup rushed the club into making a bid. United's chief scout, Jim Lawlor, was sent to Mexico for three weeks in February and March to watch Hern?índez and filed another positive report on him, before the club solicitor went over to Mexico to finalise the paperwork.[9]"

I'm guessing quite a few teams around Europe and South America had him as one they were watching closely, however United were impressed enough to send their chief scout to watch him for 3 weeks and they were then impressed enough to sign him up. Although he was a complete unknown for most fans in Europe including myself he wouldn't have been an unknown player to most European directors of football or chief scouts. Hernandez played 64 league games in the Mexican top division, far from an unknown.

There are probably thousands of scouts around the world who has it as their full time job to watch football and find and track talented players. They follow all kinds of games, and in addition DoFs and managers have contacts within journalism, coaches in different countries, academies etc. As a result there are very few "unknown" players.

 

[colin fishwick]

For Pompey Harry did sing unknown players and had quite a lot of success with them, He has gone on record as saying " he is looking to sign proven PL players for Spurs "

We had a situation in a transfer window , where Levy put in bids for around 6 European strikers on deadline day. This illustrates that Levy would buy Players of his own back and that Harry does not have full autonomy with transfers.

He tends to shout about " his signings " Parker etc " I really had to persuade Denial to buy him " that VdV bought [ with Harry's approval ] is not in doubt.

 

[braineclipse]

He scored 20 goals in his debut season and was one of their Top 3 players of the season

This time around he's been injured quite a bit but still looks miles ahead of Welbeck on the field and has still managed 12 goals mostly as a squad player. Considering what they paid for him - any rag complaining about him is a glory-hunting muppet, imv.

Speaking of Hernandez, one thing that is largely ignored when people talk about the cost is that around that Ferguson bought 3 young strikers in total that season and the season before.

Mame Biram Diouf ?ú4m in the summer 2009
Hernandez for ?ú6.6m in the summer 2010
Bebe for ?ú7.5m in the summer 2010

That's a total of around ?ú18m spent on strikers in their early twenties in a bit over a year. Now, one of them worked out brilliantly, but the other two failed quite miserably. Still good business all in all to get one quality striker for ?ú18m, but this isn't Ferguson just being a genious and snapping up cheap young superstars when he feels like it. They invested in 3 targets they felt were good targets, one worked out, two didn't. United can afford these kinds of transfers regularly and have some of them fail, most teams can't.

 

[ArcspacE]

I didn't say that scouts aren't tracking players with potential ability? It's one of their main jobs. What did I say that made you think this?

Players are known about for a long time and it's all about identifying who will be the right choice and very rarely about unearthing some hidden gem from somewhere

That struck me as rather odd - hence my comment

 

[camspur]

That sentence does not make sense to me

- Are scouts only tracking good players and not bothering with 'potential' ones since chances of them turning good are slim? - How many were arguably tracking Hernandez for example prior to his move? I doubt many - Utd took a chance on an unknown player who turned out to be a gem

I'd say not, when a scout goes and watches one player I'm sure he has an eye on the other 21 on the pitch and will make note of any player that stands out not just the one he was sent to watch in the first place.

 

[braineclipse]

For Pompey Harry did sing unknown players and had quite a lot of success with them, He has gone on record as saying " he is looking to sign proven PL players for Spurs "

We had a situation in a transfer window , where Levy put in bids for around 6 European strikers on deadline day. This illustrates that Levy would buy Players of his own back and that Harry does not have full autonomy with transfers.

He tends to shout about " his signings " Parker etc " I really had to persuade Denial to buy him " that VdV bought [ with Harry's approval ] is not in doubt.

What is your point?

So Harry does know about "unknown players"? He just makes a conscious decision to sign mainly PL proven players for Spurs as they start performing quicker and the risk is generally lower. And that strategy brought us into the CL and has helped us this season to be on course for another very good season. Isn't this a good thing? Would you rather he did like Wenger and only signed young players that might be good in a 2-3 years while consistently under performing while waiting for a team to mature that never does because the best players aren't going to wait around for that?

VdV was bought with Harry's approval, I don't think Levy would ever buy a player that Harry didn't approve. He doesn't have full autonomy with transfers, I don't think anyone is arguing that he does. Levy is responsible for the club finances and will have the final decision on who we can and can't buy. But if Levy did in fact put in bids for around 6 European strikers on deadline day they would have all been strikers Harry wanted.

 

[braineclipse]

Players are known about for a long time and it's all about identifying who will be the right choice and very rarely about unearthing some hidden gem from somewhere

That struck me as rather odd - hence my comment

Yes, because players are very rarely hidden gems. They might be gems, but they are normally quite well known. The tough decision clubs have to make is which of the potential gems they have in their targets they should go for.

 

[ArcspacE]

Yes, because players are very rarely hidden gems. They might be gems, but they are normally quite well known. The tough decision clubs have to make is which of the potential gems they have in their targets they should go for.

I don't think that is true by and large - numerous players have emerged over the years virtually under the radar and bullshti media hype.

Don't agree with your analogy at all

 

[Raziel]

I find it both saddening and bemusing that here we are in 4th place and in an FA Cup semi final and yet some of our fans still seem disgruntled, tinkled off and miserable. Some just constantly seem to want to find ways so they don't enjoy this season or the great football we have been playing.

Exactly, hence this board is 5X as busy when we lose, vs. when we win, miserable sods ..

Trying to discredit Harry's signings is another joke, Friedel, Gallas, Kaboul, Walker, Parker, VDV, Ade, JD, Saha all were signed (or re-signed) under Harry, any success this team has had in the last two years is heavily dependant on almost all of those players, and what would the side look like without them?

 

[braineclipse]

I don't think that is true by and large - numerous players have emerged over the years virtually under the radar and bullshti media hype.

Don't agree with your analogy at all

I'm not talking about "over the years". In the last 5-10 years scouting and player knowledge has increased dramatically as the value in signing promising youngsters cheaply has become abundantly clear among rising transfer fees.

I'm sure there have been exceptions, although I can't name one. What players would you classify as unknown, under the radar players that have been signed up in the last 5 years?

The DoF I mentioned earlier was on a deadline day show on Norwegian telly last summer, back then he was "just a scout". The knowledge of that one scout was very informational and to me quite amazing. The hosts of the show would mention names I've never heard of that were linked to some club on deadline day, he would talk about how he's seen this play x number of times, what his strengths and weaknesses were and if he thought he would be a good signing for the PL. He has regularly answered similar questions on his twitter feed, although he's also been honest about instances where he didn't know enough about a player to answer.

That was one scout, most big teams have plenty of scouts in addition to a head scout or DoF who also benefits from connections from around the world. All youth international tournaments are watched by tons of scouts. Most clubs have scouts that are responsible for following specific leagues, countries or larger geographical areas. For a player to be "hidden" he would have to be playing in a very small league and not be in a youth international setup. Considering that the leagues that are small enough to not be watched by European scouts are normally watched by scouts from the bigger leagues in the country or neighboring countries and normally signed up quite quickly if they are good enough there are very few hidden gems left these days.

 

[totman]

Exactly, hence this board is 5X as busy when we lose, vs. when we win, miserable sods ..

Trying to discredit Harry's signings is another joke, Friedel, Gallas, Kaboul, Walker, Parker, VDV, Ade, JD, Saha all were signed (or re-signed) under Harry, any success this team has had in the last two years is heavily dependant on almost all of those players, and what would the side look like without them?

Not to mention that people keep crediting certain players with Comolli, yet those players have become what they are today under Harry's reign.

So far under Redknapp, weve seen the best of Lennon, Kaboul, Bale, Gomes, Modric, Defoe, BAE, Dawson, Corluka, Bentley, Jenas and Huddlestone. Most of those players, people wanted sold at some point before Harry took over. Modric included.

 

[colin fishwick]

What is your point?

So Harry does know about "unknown players"? He just makes a conscious decision to sign mainly PL proven players for Spurs as they start performing quicker and the risk is generally lower. And that strategy brought us into the CL and has helped us this season to be on course for another very good season. Isn't this a good thing? Would you rather he did like Wenger and only signed young players that might be good in a 2-3 years while consistently under performing while waiting for a team to mature that never does because the best players aren't going to wait around for that?

VdV was bought with Harry's approval, I don't think Levy would ever buy a player that Harry didn't approve. He doesn't have full autonomy with transfers, I don't think anyone is arguing that he does. Levy is responsible for the club finances and will have the final decision on who we can and can't buy. But if Levy did in fact put in bids for around 6 European strikers on deadline day they would have all been strikers Harry wanted.

Our worst signings in recent years have all been " so called proven PL players " Keane, Bent, Bentley & Palacious " all sold or not sold at a big loss. Yes I would rather Wenger do our transfers, certainly up tp the last years, he has constantly bought good players for vey little.

My point is Harry has done well, but he does not deserve all or even most of the credit for the assembling of our very good squad.

Our best players tend to not be his signings. Harry may changed , he has been to see Hazard and is after him, this could be a Modric signing and it would be a Harry choice..

 

[totman]

dp

 

[ArcspacE]

For a player to be "hidden" he would have to be playing in a very small league and not be in a youth international setup. Considering that the leagues that are small enough to not be watched by European scouts are normally watched by scouts from the bigger leagues in the country or neighboring countries and normally signed up quite quickly if they are good enough there are very few hidden gems left these days.

No, not at all - already gave you Hernandez as the most obvious choice. How does being capped at youth level make you s super-star? I think you're misunderstanding the meaining of 'hidden gem' = a cheap player with massive potential who hasn't been linked with the G-14 and turns out to be solid.

Couple of other names which have emerged over the years

- Radamel Falcao (nothing exceptional at River Plate)
- Antonio Valencia

 

[totman]

If Walker, Falque, Coubailley, Naughton etc turn out to be great players, people will say it wasnt a Harry signing.....if they turn out to be average though, well that will all be down to Redknapp

 

[jimmyb]

Our worst signings in recent years have all been " so called proven PL players " Keane, Bent, Bentley & Palacious " all sold or not sold at a big loss.

Keane - only signed as emergency cover because we faced the serious prospect of relegation and the striker we had just signed to help us to escape from our predicament - Jermain Defoe - had just injured his ankle was due to be out for three months.

Bent - signed under Comolli and we did eventually make our money back on him.

Bentley - again, signed under Comolli.

Palacios - was crucial in helping us to avoid relegation in 08-09. For that alone, he was well worth the ?ú12 million we paid for him. Sold for a reasonable fee after he had given us good service.

 

[braineclipse]

Our worst signings in recent years have all been " so called proven PL players " Keane, Bent, Bentley & Palacious " all sold or not sold at a big loss. Yes I would rather Wenger do our transfers, certainly up tp the last years, he has constantly bought good players for vey little.

My point is Harry has done well, but he does not deserve all or even most of the credit for the assembling of our very good squad.

Our best players tend to not be his signings. Harry may changed , he has been to see Hazard and is after him, this could be a Modric signing and it would be a Harry choice..

Well, both Bent and Bentley were players signed by previous reigns, not Harry. And under Comolli we had more the kind of transfer setup you prefer I take it?

Keane didn't work out, I still think he is the one true dud Harry has signed while at Spurs.

You're wrong about Palacios in two ways, one is my opinion, one is a fact.

My opinion: Palacios was very good for us for over a season, he was integral for us getting 4th and played an important part as we developed our squad into what it is today. In the end he wasn't good enough and was rightly sold. However, that was after he experienced the tragedy of his brother being killed. I've always found it difficult to be harsh on Palacios because of that incident. There was a clear drop in performance after that, as one might expect and to this day I still don't think his performances have reached the levels they were at before that. This is also partly why I find it very difficult to be harsh on Harry for signing Palacios. But, the main point is still that Palacios did an important job for us for quite a while.

Where you are factually wrong: Palacios was sold, him and Crouch to Stoke for ?ú20. Around ?ú10m each? And we paid, what? ?ú12m for Palacios when we signed him. Even if the Crouch/Palacios fees were more ?ú12m/?ú8m (although I haven't seen anything indicating that as far as I can remember) the loss would be only ?ú4m. That's not a big loss in football these days by any useful definition of "big loss" I can think of. Most certainly not when compared to what the previous managements have cost us in transfer failures.

I do agree that Harry doesn't deserve most of the credit for assembling our very good squad. I don't see that as a criticism of Harry though.