Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

[braineclipse]

But you'd sell him over Soldado? Others saying he can be devastating on his day, but sell him? We need to keep the good players and sell the bad. Love him or hate him, he can be an important player for us. So would prefer we offload others who can't first.

Same could be said for Jenas. Was usually immense in 2-3 games per season.

Ade is great when on form, but he's just so inconsistent. Worse than that he can't be trusted to put a shift in. We're seemingly trying to put a system of higher pressing in place, the striker is very important in that and I don't think Ade can be trusted to do that job. Before his latest absence because of injuries/whatevers he couldn't even be trusted to challenge for a header.

If Poch and the coaching team see a likely route of progression to where Ade is delivering week in week out again and is actually a good player, not just someone that could be good in theory then sure. Keep him around and try to make it happen (like we did in the first 10 or so games this season). But right now that just seems so far away, to me at least.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Same could be said for Jenas. Was usually immense in 2-3 games per season.

Ade is great when on form, but he's just so inconsistent. Worse than that he can't be trusted to put a shift in. We're seemingly trying to put a system of higher pressing in place, the striker is very important in that and I don't think Ade can be trusted to do that job. Before his latest absence because of injuries/whatevers he couldn't even be trusted to challenge for a header.

If Poch and the coaching team see a likely route of progression to where Ade is delivering week in week out again and is actually a good player, not just someone that could be good in theory then sure. Keep him around and try to make it happen (like we did in the first 10 or so games this season). But right now that just seems so far away, to me at least.

I don't really get this. From what I have seen when at WHL I have always thought that Adebayor has typically put in more miles than Soldado. It has looked to me like he has pressed more than Soldado and he has also certainly won far more aerial duels than Soldado. I would criticise Ade for a lack of quality on many occasions but not really a lack of effort.

 

[Steviejman]

I don't really get this. From what I have seen when at WHL I have always thought that Adebayor has typically put in more miles than Soldado. It has looked to me like he has pressed more than Soldado and he has also certainly won far more aerial duels than Soldado. I would criticise Ade for a lack of quality on many occasions but not really a lack of effort.

I have to agree with you on that, I'm not a great fan of Ade but he does work hard!

 

[braineclipse]

I don't really get this. From what I have seen when at WHL I have always thought that Adebayor has typically put in more miles than Soldado. It has looked to me like he has pressed more than Soldado and he has also certainly won far more aerial duels than Soldado. I would criticise Ade for a lack of quality on many occasions but not really a lack of effort.

I think our pressing has looked significantly better without him (and to be fair, without Chadli and a few others).

Ade always seems moody. Yes sometimes he makes the high intensity runs defensively, but to me at least he doesn't seem like someone that reliably gets himself into the right position to function as a unit.

I think his effort has been lacking for sure. So many times we were under pressure early on in the season and desperate for someone to hold the ball up and be a bit physical and he just allowed defenders free clearing headers instead of accepting that sometimes it will hurt. Soldado isn't much better at that, but more because of his size. Kane is superior to both by a mile in that regard, and that shouldn't really be the case compared to Ade.

 

[DTA]

Same could be said for Jenas. Was usually immense in 2-3 games per season.

Ade is great when on form, but he's just so inconsistent. Worse than that he can't be trusted to put a shift in. We're seemingly trying to put a system of higher pressing in place, the striker is very important in that and I don't think Ade can be trusted to do that job. Before his latest absence because of injuries/whatevers he couldn't even be trusted to challenge for a header.

If Poch and the coaching team see a likely route of progression to where Ade is delivering week in week out again and is actually a good player, not just someone that could be good in theory then sure. Keep him around and try to make it happen (like we did in the first 10 or so games this season). But right now that just seems so far away, to me at least.

I may not agree with you on much, but I always had you down as a smart and fair guy.... Someone apart from the herd mentality, but the above is cringe worthy. Ade always works hard, I can't see how anyone can deny that... Say he has a bad first touch if you want, say he is inconsistent, say he has bad juju... But don't say he doesn't work hard....

Also bad Ade ... The one of the first 10 games this season has still contributed more than nogoaldo.

 

[scaramanga]

I may not agree with you on much, but I always had you down as a smart and fair guy.... Someone apart from the herd mentality, but the above is cringe worthy. Ade always works hard, I can't see how anyone can deny that... Say he has a bad first touch if you want, say he is inconsistent, say he has bad juju... But don't say he doesn't work hard....

Also bad Ade ... The one of the first 10 games this season has still contributed more than nogoaldo.

If Ade always worked hard he'd still be at Madrid (or maybe City).

 

[DTA]

If Ade always worked hard he'd still be at Madrid (or maybe City).

Ade always works hard, but doesn't always play to the best of his abilities... You may say thats because he don't give a sh1t, I say its because he is the epitome of a confidence and momentum player. Be interested to see how much distance both hima and soldado cover on average.

 

[braineclipse]

I may not agree with you on much, but I always had you down as a smart and fair guy.... Someone apart from the herd mentality, but the above is cringe worthy. Ade always works hard, I can't see how anyone can deny that... Say he has a bad first touch if you want, say he is inconsistent, say he has bad juju... But don't say he doesn't work hard....

Also bad Ade ... The one of the first 10 games this season has still contributed more than nogoaldo.

When he's motivated he works hard. When he came back last season under Sherwood his work rate was tremendous, particularly in the first couple of matches. That's what he's capable of. The difference between that Ade and Ade short on motivation is massive for me.

To some extent I'm not even mad though. He is what he is, we've known for a long time just how consistently inconsistent Ade is. We've chosen to keep him and Poch gambled on getting him back to his best at the start of the season. So far at least it hasn't worked out, but it was a decent gamble to take considering how good Ade is when he's on form, how poor Soldado was last season and how difficult it seems to be to sign top class strikers.

As for Ade contributing more. It's all opinions really, apart from goals and assists, and in the league Soldado isn't really doing significantly worse than Ade in that regard so far this season. Also it seems that motivating Soldado to contribute in the (smaller) cups is no issue, whereas this has rather often has seemed more difficult with Ade.

Honestly I'm not content with either of them. If we can replace them both in January that would be fine with me. If we can upgrade on one of them that would be awesome. Right now though Soldado is at least in the squad and available. It might be that the speculations about a bust up between Pochettino and Ade are just rumours and that he'll be back starting a league game for us any day now though...

 

[scaramanga]

Ade always works hard, but doesn't always play to the best of his abilities... You may say thats because he don't give a sh1t, I say its because he is the epitome of a confidence and momentum player. Be interested to see how much distance both hima and soldado cover on average.

It's about a lot more than distance covered.

Let's give Ade the massive benefit of the doubt and assume he is motivated by something more than money. If his head isn't in it, then working hard also involves sorting out his head and getting it in the right place for doing what he's supposed to be doing (preferably between the defender and the ball!). Working hard as a footballer isn't about running your **** off for 90 minutes and then forgetting about it for a week (at least, not since the bad old days of English football) - it's about doing everything you can, physically and mentally to ensure that you are at the very peak of your performance at all times.

Look at Ronaldo, look at Bale - those are two players that take what they do to a science. Their off-field time perfectly compliments their on-field time and ensures that they are always ready to be the very best they can.

I don't expect a Sunday League player to do that, but when you're in the Ade wage bracket then it's a minimum requirement.

 

[braineclipse]

It's about a lot more than distance covered.

Let's give Ade the massive benefit of the doubt and assume he is motivated by something more than money. If his head isn't in it, then working hard also involves sorting out his head and getting it in the right place for doing what he's supposed to be doing (preferably between the defender and the ball!). Working hard as a footballer isn't about running your **** off for 90 minutes and then forgetting about it for a week (at least, not since the bad old days of English football) - it's about doing everything you can, physically and mentally to ensure that you are at the very peak of your performance at all times.

Look at Ronaldo, look at Bale - those are two players that take what they do to a science. Their off-field time perfectly compliments their on-field time and ensures that they are always ready to be the very best they can.

I don't expect a Sunday League player to do that, but when you're in the Ade wage bracket then it's a minimum requirement.

Going by the comments about our training sessions when Poch took over, during pre-season and as recently as Eriksen's latest comments I'm guessing we're moving more towards that kind of a requirement for all our players.

Those that don't respond well will hopefully be shipped out.

Honestly, very little in terms of players in our out would be better for our club than Ade responding really well to Pochettino. Either realizing that a consistently good work rate is necessary, or continuing to consistently work hard if that's what he's always been doing. I'm not holding my breath though. He got every chance earlier on this season, despite Kane doing really well Ade kept his place.

If everything that's been going on lately have just been a coincidental series of injuries and personal problems and he's back again this weekend or soon and Poch keeps him in the team and keeps believing in him I'll do so too.

 

[LCLC]

It's about a lot more than distance covered.

Let's give Ade the massive benefit of the doubt and assume he is motivated by something more than money. If his head isn't in it, then working hard also involves sorting out his head and getting it in the right place for doing what he's supposed to be doing (preferably between the defender and the ball!). Working hard as a footballer isn't about running your **** off for 90 minutes and then forgetting about it for a week (at least, not since the bad old days of English football) - it's about doing everything you can, physically and mentally to ensure that you are at the very peak of your performance at all times.

Look at Ronaldo, look at Bale - those are two players that take what they do to a science. Their off-field time perfectly compliments their on-field time and ensures that they are always ready to be the very best they can.

I don't expect a Sunday League player to do that, but when you're in the Ade wage bracket then it's a minimum requirement.

You mean the bracket that is 20-30k more than the likes of Paulinho, Soldado, Dembele, Lamela (might be less) and cost 10-20million pounds less in transfer fees. You go on about Ade like he cost us 25m and is on 200k a week - his wages really aren't that out there and attributing money to mental issues and work rate is childish. It's all about the person and Ade is a hot and cold striker - if he wasn't he wouldn't be playing for us.

His return for the money invested in him is good. 50% of our recently signed players have produced nothing resembling value for money

 

[braineclipse]

You mean the bracket that is 20-30k less than the likes of Paulinho, Soldado, Dembele, Lamela (might be less) and cost 10-20million pounds less in transfer fees. You go on about Ade like he cost us 25m and is on 200k a week - his wages really aren't that out there and attributing money to mental issues and work rate is childish. It's all about the person and Ade is a hot and cold striker - if he wasn't he wouldn't be playing for us.

Reportedly his contract is up in the summer. Some reported interest from Qatari clubs and Monaco at least, perhaps to bring him in already in January: http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-transfer-news-qatari-clubs-hope-to-lure-emmanuel-adebayor-with-substantial-pay-rise-9930374.html

What kind of wages would you want the club to offer Adebayor to keep him around beyond the summer? (Same question to DTA)?

Edit: Also, most of Scara's point is about professionalism, effort, work rate, on and off the pitch. Not just value for money for wages and transfer fees paid.

Paulinho isn't a great example because like Adebayor has been widely criticized for a lack of effort and work rate. Actually they were the two players involved in this debacle:

For his flaws Dembele has always been a hard worker, I've rarely seen him pull out of a tackle never mind move away to not get hit by a softly struck free kick. Lamela, despite his problems, is being fairly widely praised for his effort and work rate. I really don't think they're good comparisons.

 

[scaramanga]

You mean the bracket that is 20-30k less than the likes of Paulinho, Soldado, Dembele, Lamela (might be less) and cost 10-20million pounds less in transfer fees. You go on about Ade like he cost us 25m and is on 200k a week - his wages really aren't that out there and attributing money to mental issues and work rate is childish. It's all about the person and Ade is a hot and cold striker - if he wasn't he wouldn't be playing for us.

You're using by far the most generous estimates for Ade's wage and by far the least for all of the others. Ade himself laughed at the idea of being paid as little as £200K per week when City were topping up his wages. So even after the £70K drop from City he's still earning an amount over £130K that Ade himself considers significant.

I'm not the one attributing money to anything - in my post I was giving Ade the benefit of the doubt and assumed he wasn't all about the money. He's not hot and cold, he's a top striker who spends more than 90% of his time playing like a Ligue 2 player. He is capable of fixing that and hasn't.

 

[Superhudd]

Ade always works hard, but doesn't always play to the best of his abilities... You may say thats because he don't give a sh1t, I say its because he is the epitome of a confidence and momentum player. Be interested to see how much distance both hima and soldado cover on average.

:ross:Not the best opening to an argument I have seen on here.

 

[Jordinho]

60k a week = 3 million a year
100k = 5 million a year
130k = 6.5 million

There was probably a hefty sign on fee as well. It's not far off that in their time here Ade will have cost the club just as much as Soldado.

 

[DublinSpur]

That gif illustrates perfectly why neither Paulinho nor Adebayor should be anywhere near our first team.

 

[Jordinho]

Tottenham transfer news: Qatari clubs hope to lure Emmanuel Adebayor with substantial pay rise

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-transfer-news-qatari-clubs-hope-to-lure-emmanuel-adebayor-with-substantial-pay-rise-9930374.html

That should seal it.

 

[scaramanga]

60k a week = 3 million a year
100k = 5 million a year
130k = 6.5 million

There was probably a hefty sign on fee as well. It's not far off that in their time here Ade will have cost the club just as much as Soldado.

Player wages are usually reported after tax so that they can compare across borders.

So, let's be generous again and assume that Ade is only on £100K per week.

The club would have to pay him in the region of £190K per week for him to take home £100K and we'd also have to pay in the region of £25K per week employers NI. So the cost to the club would be £215K per week or just under £11.2M per year.

**Edit**

That's ignoring any other costs to the club like scheduling flights to drag his **** back home from a tournament that he chooses to play in, etc.

 

[braineclipse]

Player wages are usually reported after tax so that they can compare across borders.

So, let's be generous again and assume that Ade is only on £100K per week.

The club would have to pay him in the region of £190K per week for him to take home £100K and we'd also have to pay in the region of £25K per week employers NI. So the cost to the club would be £215K per week or just under £11.2M per year.

**Edit**

That's ignoring any other costs to the club like scheduling flights to drag his **** back home from a tournament that he chooses to play in, etc.

I don't think that's the standard in England.

Was discussed on Football Weekly at one point iirc. How it was common practice in some countries (Russia, France, Italy?), but not in others like England. Again, massive iirc.

 

[Jordinho]

I don't think that's the standard in England.

Was discussed on Football Weekly at one point iirc. How it was common practice in some countries (Russia, France, Italy?), but not in others like England. Again, massive iirc.

It's common in Italy at least. You could say the club pays players' taxes for them, not that it makes much of a difference. Wages are coming down over there though to comply with FFP.